In retrospect, being a lesbian who doesn't necessarily want to spend four years single, it wasn't the best idea to go to BYU. But come on, their tuition is very affordable, Mormon or not.
So, I'm going to be a freshman at BYU in the fall. I don't really believe in the church anymore and am a lesbian. In high school, I spent my time closeted thinking to myself, "It's cool, just wait until college. You can date in college."
But the only affordable school that accepted me was BYU. And there's the honor code that doesn't allow for LGBT dating. But does it happen anyways? Is there any way I can get through a BA at BYU and also have a dating life? Or is it basically remain closeted for four more years? I don't know if I can do that and remain positive/sane. Who wants to be single forever, you know? Does LGBT dating happen at BYU even though it's not really allowed? Or does it just end up hurting both people involved in that sort of environment?
Sorry, this isn't exactly ex-mormon related but you can't exactly go to the BYU forums with this question, can you?
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/26/2015 12:49AM by madasahatter.
Fascinating topic, and since it could make you, formally, an ex-mormon, I think it's totally on topic.
I'm way too old and too hetero to have any useful information, but I can speculate that two girls would have an easier time hiding the fact that their apparent friendship is really something a lot deeper...with certain obvious safeguards in place.
And one wonders about the 'bearding' issue? Could a two gay guys in a relationship pair up with two lesbians in a relationship and appear in public as two hetero couples?
I just know, based on watching a BYU roommate from Argentina methodically screw his way through a small percentage of the female student population, that things against the rules are done daily.
I know persons that USED to go to BYU whom are gay. I imagine that LGBT Dating would be pretty dangerous as a student, mostly because of the "brownshirts" that would love to rat you out. You would have to stay way below the radar. It would be risky to confide in anyone.
I wonder though. What if you simply dated but they had no knowledge or proof of a physical relationship? That's similar to a straight couple. Dating is fine. They get in trouble with the gestapo for going too far physically.
Oh, no, I don't intend on anything further than dating--that would definitely be overstepping the honor code XD. It seems like the more I look, the more ex-mormon and closeted people there are at BYU so maybe it's not as rare of a thing? But how do they find each other, anyways? That's the main thing I'm wondering.
If you haven't seen it before, Connell O'Donovan did a lengthy dissertation on gays in the church. It shows the lack of rejection they once had and then the turning of the corner to becoming avid persecutors.
Hey! I graduated from BYU last year, and dated my current husband (I'm gay) for 2 1/2 years while I was there (and we did much more than hold hands and kiss, I can tell you that!)
This is my advice:
- Make sure you sign housing contracts on a quarterly basis. The more you move around from ward to ward, the less the church will bother you. What I would do is simple: get an apartment from May-December, never show up at church, then move to a new place, go to church for two months until I got my ecclesiastical endorsement in February, then repeat the process. That made it possible for me to attend church like 4 times a year. It was great. :)
- Make sure you live as far from as campus as you can. Old Mill is a great place for people who just pretend to be mormons :)
- Although it is sad, Craigslist and sex apps are still the best places for you to find friends and dates. There are TONS of people like you at BYU, believe me. Find them online.
- The best set-up you can possibly have is to find 3 other girls who don't believe in the church and share an apartment with them. You can all do whatever you want, no one will know.
I would recommend you not to go to BYU. You know the church is false and sit in the middle of TBMs drinking the coolaid. Yes they will snitch you out. Hometeacher, visiting teachers and church attendance. My cousin went to BYU and they were a poor married couple and when she and her husband went to tithing settlement the bishop asked them if they could increase their giving. They made about 24k combined income together. Hiding for 4 years will be hard. There are some nice youtube videos on that sunject I will share them later. Good luck to you and keep posting here.
If you do insist on going to BYU, I'll give you my advice. Although I attended a while ago 98-01, and I'm not gay, I don't know if it'll be too much help. Move at least once a year. Especially every fall. This will keep you from getting a big calling. The big callings like RS president are usually given out at the beginning of fall. And they go to people who were in the ward the previous year that the bishop already knows. Unless your last name is Mormon royalty. That could also get you a big calling. One of elders quorum presidents there was David Bednars son. Also at the beginning of a new quarter in your new ward, skip church the first couple of Sundays. Pretend you're sick or visiting family. Most of the callings are given out those first couple of weeks.
And BYU is not as stereotypical super-duper-Mormon as many think. There are definite subcultures there that are easy to find. You'll easily see who are the ultra TBM students and who are the lesser active ones. It was kind of silly but having DVDs of r rated movies was a big indicator of who was who. And that's who you'll naturally start to room with. So there will be apartments where all the roommates are full on TBMs and others where it's pretty obvious they're just attending church until they graduate. By my senior year my roommates barely attended church, and one came home every Friday and Saturday night remaking of marijuana. After, at least you're first year there, you'll be able to find a group who share your passion, or lack of passion, in the church.
As for dating, I'm sure there's underground gay and lesbian groups there. I'm sure you'll be able to find them. As for guys trying to date you, you don't really have to worry about that unless you're really outgoing and bubbly, and preferably blonde and thin. If your more quiet or intellectual, guys will usually leave you alone. Most BYU guys are intimidated by really smart women. They want a housewife.
Just remember, Mormons care about outside appearance the most. So if you put on a facade of activity in the church that should be enough for them not to arouse suspicion about you. When I was there I did the bare minimum of church activity that I needed to and spent most of my time studying.
Bender, I agree with you.......most girls go to BYU to get their MRS. degree. My Mom went to BYU in 1927'ish for about one semester ( or quarter , whatever it was back then ). She met my Dad & boom , started having kids right away !!!
Why risk it? If you get caught, you will not get your degree. The stress would be horrible just to save a few dollars. Go to a scho were you will enjoy it.
The reason I replied directly underneath the post that I did is because of all of the stories of students who either lost their ecclesiastical endorsement or were caught in an honor code violation and then were kicked out. Some of them have had trouble with BYU either not allowing their credit to transfer, or not issuing their diploma (even if they had already completed requirements for graduation). I'd hate to see them pull a Chad Hardy on her.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/26/2015 07:13PM by othersteve.
othersteve Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > I agree. Going to BYU is a mistake. I agree with othersteve. In college , your mind should relax totally & allow you to study, date who ever the hell you want , without stressing if someone should "see" you , other person being " Miss. Tattle tail", watching your every move so they can run to the Bishop or Stake Pres. or some professor. ( The commandment " Thou shalt not gossip" doesn't apply to good stodgy Mormons who'd love nothing more than to tattle on you if, God Forbid , they see you loving another woman. Cynicism added on purpose ) Okay................I'm just rattling on. Sorry . I'd wanna go to a college/university where I could be happy, & live my live however I want & what anyone else thought be damned !!!
I am sure it is possible you will find a satisfactory dating situation at BYU, but I would think the odds are strongly against it.
BYU has about 12,000 female students. If we figure 2.5 percent of those are purely lesbian and another 2.5 percent are lesbian curious or bi-sexual, that gives you about 600 potential dating partners as students. Those percentages are just guesses. I took half of common estimates for the general population under the idea that BYU would have a lower LGBT population than average.
Most of those 600 would be expected to be closeted to some level. Let's guess 75 percent are deep in the closet. Of course if you, or they, have an extra keen sense of gaydar, maybe you can find them or be found.
Most likely though, you are stuck on a campus of 26,000 students with no more than 150 or so potential dating partners. If you are like what I consider to be an average person, you will eliminate about 80 percent of those right off the bad for appearance, personality, etc. A like percentage will eliminate you right off the bat.
So, lets say you will consider 20 percent of the candidates, or about 30 people. And 20 percent of them, or about six, will consider you.
The odds of you finding one of those six on BYU's campus is pretty remote.
If you want a satisfactory dating situation, go elsewhere.
Get out now! If you got into BYU surely you can get in somewhere else that is equally affordable. What you don't realize now is that BYU will follow you around on your resume for the rest of your life. It's only an assets in certain circles, (the ones you are trying to escape) and can be a liability in others. Do yourself a favor and find a real school where you can live your life in the open!
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/26/2015 10:27AM by greensmythe.
Ok, so I'll go a little farther in the unhelpful category: IMO, going to BYU, as a lesbian looking for conquests, is the MOST UNAUTHENTIC THING you could do I may not agree "the church is the most correct on the face of the earth" HOWEVER, it's their college, and if they have an honor code YOU HAVE NO INTENTION of following That's terrible Especially if your acceptance is based in part on your parents church membership. Don't do that to your parents
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/26/2015 11:24AM by Cahomegrown.
It can be hard because the campus encourages students to snitch on each other. So if other students pick up on the fact that you are dating in a non approved way it can reach back to the honor code office.
One guy I know who is gay went to BYU. He dated but managed to keep his relationship secret from his room mates.
However after the relationship ended his ex boyfriend turned him in out of spite.
The school began the process to formally punish him but he decided to leave. He was able to secure his transcripts before hand.
Its a dangerous campus for LGBT people. I do know also there are LGBT individuals who are out and proud. But also remain devout and celibate. Dont trust them either. They will turn you in just the same, believing it is in your best interests to "repent" and "remain strong"
For a 4 year school, yes, BYU has some of the best tuition around. But don't sell out your integrity. In the long run, you will be far better served just biting the bullet and paying the higher tuition. And, like someone else said, you don't want BYU on your resume if you're planning an ex-mormon life.
Have you considered a junior college? It's a great deal. I know a lot of kids that I graduated high school with looked down their noses at kids that went the JC route, but they're just a bunch of elitist snobs. A lot of very bright kids take their 100 and 200 level courses at a JC, transfer, then end up with the exact same degree as the kid that went the 4 year route. And in the process, they saved themselves 20-30k or more.
Something to think about.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/26/2015 08:14PM by Strength in the Loins.
I have a niece who went to podunk Glendale CC for two years, working nights in a bullet-proof gas station booth, studying as she earned her money.
She did fine at the city college, and UCLA was happy to accept her her junior year. So she has a wonderful diploma from UCLA that does not make ANY mention of Glendale CC.
You're not mad as a hatter....you're dumb as a box of rocks. How incredibly naive do you have to be to assume that all the hundreds of GLBT students at BYu who were hounded out of school were just too dumb to hide it or simply unfortunate? Are there folks who got away with it? Sure. But there were a whole lot more who thought they had gotten away with it only to be called in because their friends/partners/lovers caved in to the enormous pressure of the administration and turned them in. Go ahead go to BYU but start thinking of how you are going to explain your expulsion for honor code violation to every employer who might want to look at your transcript.
"But come on, their tuition is very affordable" - you get what you pay for.... sounds like years of torture to save a few bucks. I doubt it's worth it.
verilyverily Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > "But come on, their tuition is very affordable" - > you get what you pay for.... > sounds like years of torture to save a few bucks. > I doubt it's worth it.
And it's not that affordable anyway.
At BYU, per semester:
LDS $2,575 Non-LDS $5,150
At CalState, per semester: CA Resident $5,472 ($3,174 if taking 6 units or less) CalState tuition can be offset by CalGrants, Pell Grants, etc.
So for $300 more a semester than a non-LDS at BYU, you get a huge university system with dozens of campuses and a world-class education unsullied by religious dogma or an arbitrary, idiotic "honor code."
If you must go to BYU, live north of campus (Crestwood apts) and surround yourself by UVU students who couldn't care less about the honor code. I would also look there for dating prospects :) If BYU doesn't end up working out, you could always work for a year, get Utah residency, and go to the U!
I'll just say that way back in '89, I was outed as a lesbian and expelled from BYU even though I was complying with the honor code and had nary a date, much less any affectionate attention from another woman. Perhaps they are a bit less hostile now, but I kinda doubt it.
I have a friend that met his gay partner in their BYU student ward. This was about 5 years ago so not to far in the past, not sure if they have cracked down on this sort of thing.
OP IS Mormon on the books, just non-believing. Therefore the tuition is cheap.
There is a lot of good advice here already as far as church attendance, staying below the radar, and the best so far- FIND ROOMATES WHO ARE ALSO NONBELIEVING OR MORE OPEN MINDED... not from Utah would be preferable as well. Only come out when you are 100% sure they are trustworthy. The worst and most despised roomate I ever had was a BYU TBM transfer who faithfully wrote her missionary every week and thought that making out broke the law of chastity. Remember, these girls will see you more than anybody else and any strange or "off" behavior will be noted.
IMO, I hope you have a car and can get to SLC on the weekends. There is a huge LGBT community there. Just be careful who you associate with and of course, consider down the road transferring to a school where you can be your authentic self. It's sometimes easier to transfer than to be admitted as a freshmen.
You are making a huge mistake. If you identify as gay and you are just a Freshman, you are going to hate life at BYU. Sure, you can find girls to date, but they will be messed up by living in Provo.
I don't care what it costs, don't go there! Your college years are too precious to waste at BYU. You also risk getting kicked out and having "Honor Code Violation" on your transcripts. That means cheating at normal schools, so your academic career would be over at that point.
Try to find a state school you can afford. Even if BYU were free, you would be paying too much to go there.