What is up with people flying confederate flags right now? I just got to utah and saw a bunch of them. I know some shit went down on North Carolina. When I asked my mom she said it was because it represents state rights over the federal government and made a rant about gay marriage. She then said she was considering buying one and flying it at the house. SMH

That would go over really well with my sister because she adopted two black babies and they come over to grandma's all the time.

No surprise here. Stupid is as stupid does.

"...it represents state rights over the federal government..."

A lie. It represented a breakaway federal government, that was established specifically to allow southerners to continue to own human beings as slaves.

Utah has no "southern heritage" associated with it. So you can be sure anyone flying it is doing so for 'white power.'

What about those folks from St. George (Dixie ?) Don't they have some claim to the south?

Doubting Thomas Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> What about those folks from St. George (Dixie ?)
> Don't they have some claim to the south?

Only in bible-beltedness and ignorance ;-)

South Carolina never flew the Confederate battle flag until 1964, and only to protest and show their defiance to the Civil Rights Act and the end to segregation. If it was so damned important to them, why did they wait 100 years to fly it?

Why even have a federal government if we have all this BS about "states' rights?" So-called "states' rights" is why we're becoming such a loser of a nation.

most of the south had some form of the southern flag in their state flag up until the turn of the century, 2000. We need state rights because what's good for Kansas isn't good for New Hampshire. Obama has never been to Utah and knows nothing about it, yet, he's always pushing to take away Utah lands for National preserves. Shouldn't we have a say?

http://www.sltrib.com/home/2360146-155/president-obamas-utah-visit-delayed-a

Really... this happened less than 4 months ago.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/28/2015 03:02AM by nonamekid.

Can't agree. I'm a federalist. Federal lands fall under federal law. But this, while a legal argument, also borders on the political--or what people are trying to make political. So I shall leave it here.

I believe in limited states' rights. Even then, I believe that driving laws and police training, for instance, should be uniform across the land.

How typical of Utah.

My recollection:

At the BYU Homecoming assembly many years ago, in the Fieldhouse, a collection of students from the southern states were waving a huge Confederate flag and shouting:

The South will rise again.

I have a confession to make.

Whenever I read or hear "The south will rise again" I mutter under my breath, "And we'll kick your bigot @$$€$ again too!"

Yeah, I'm a bidge.

if the South succeeded. We would NOT pursue another civil war. I can absolutely guarantee of that, I'd bet my life on it.

Good fit. Southerners that fly that flag honestly believe that the South will rise again & Mormons believe that Jesus will rise soon. Both groups are racist.

If you think the Conferderate flag is "just" about State rights then think again. Educate yourself.

If you want a better understanding of what the Civil War was really about, then take the time to read the various documents entitled Declaration_of_Cause_of Secession.

These individual documents were written and signed by the legislatures of the Confederate States, to fully document and proclaim to the world why they were nullifying their comittment to the Union.

For starters try Texas, Georgia, Mississippi, and South Carolina. Some real winners there. Easily found with a Google search.

"That" war was about SLAVERY, and "That" flag represents such.
Before the war it was common to refer to America as These United States (plural), but after the war America was refered to as The United States (singular). Things changed.

By the way, the Confederacy Lost.

Does it really surprise anybody that Utah Mormons would wave a racist flag. It's spelled out in the book of Mormon, "White and delightsome".

This is your brain on Mormonism are there any questions?

I always get a kick out of seeing idiots fly that flag, especially in Utah. Way to celebrate a loss there folks.

You got your ass kicked for a really bad cause, maybe you shouldn't celebrate that fact? Call me crazy.

People who proudly display that flag let me know in no uncertain terms exactly what type of person they are so I appreciate it in a lot of ways. I immediately know that there is no reason to respect them.

Exactly.

My neighbors have been flying this flag now for a couple of weeks. Before, they would change up and fly different flags and it was never a confederate one, changing them every day. Now it seems they are only happy advertising what they are.

I've also noticed a few people in the area driving trucks now with the confederate flag mounted on it.

I'm wondering if any doctors offices have noticed a spike in blood pressure problems with their patients, with all these changes going on lately I imagine many are just fit to be tied.

Southern Utah is called the "Heart of Dixie," because originally Brigham Young and cohorts had southern farmers migrate there in pioneer days to farm cotton and tobacco crops.

Dixie is St. George's nickname today, and the university there is called Dixie State University.

Some people are calling for a name change because of the reflection on the Confederate days. Native Utahns are proud of their Dixie heritage, and don't find it conflicts with their values - it just describes their locale (in their minds.)

Since the Confederate flag has been a controversy since the Roof murders in SC, it has resurfaced as an issue for St. George. Wasn't aware other parts of state are engaging in it also.

I know for a fact that Idaho is home to white militant extremists. That's just a stone's throw from Utah. So, who knows, how much is influenced by the Dixie controversy, or just white racists?

BY declared Utah to be a slave state. The feds shut him down quickly.

http://historytogo.utah.gov/utah_chapters/pioneers_and_cowboys/slaveryinutah.html



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/23/2015 10:49AM by Heresy.

Hank Williams Jr recently did a concert at Red Butte Gardens and one of his concessionaires sold rebel flags with his face in the center. RBG was contractually obligated to allow the sales. There were lots of complaints, and RBG will be more careful about the contract terms going forward.

There was also a confederate flag rally in SL a week or so ago. I wouldn't accuse the participants of being overtly racist, though it is likely some are. And there is plenty of covert racism around. Bring a black date to a family reunion or announce you are in the process of adopting a black baby. See how awkward things get. That's a gauge of covert racism.

IMO it was basically a symbolic public middle finger to society. It's a rear guard action, and I don't expect more organized events like that.

When Indiana passed a "religious liberty" anti-gay law a couple months ago, corporate America came down on the legislature with both feet, and they quickly rescinded the law. Corporate America is also coming down on the Confederate flag with both feet. When all NASCAR venues unanimously sign a statement that they will not use the flag, it's over.

The name of Dixie State U is a separate but related issue. I don't see the name changing any time soon, but there are teachers who won't work there because they don't want to have to explain that name on their resume for the rest of their life. Some students feel that way too, just like some of us are uneasy about having BYU on our resume.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/23/2015 11:53AM by Brother Of Jerry.

Hi everybody - you ought to live down here in rural central Florida (I would move if I was younger and could afford it so that is not an option.)

I literally am afraid to express my negative feelings about the Battle Flag of the Confederacy. There is no way I would speak up!

I am in Ocala where the pro-flag rally happened a couple of weeks ago and there are now Bars and Stars flying all over the place. I think I will stay inside with my dogs!

I am a loud mouth but not in this case! Discretion is the better part of valor - I mean "survival."

I Will Not Argue About the Confederate Flag
http://thetattooedprof.com/archives/407

Excellent article. I also love the picture of the cat and dog that said nope. I am glad that so many people are standing up against the feigned ignorance of what the flag symbolizes, which is tyranny and oppression. The thing that surprised me in the article was the response of people saying that the Civil War wasn't about slavery! It's just as terrible as saying that there were no gas chambers in Jewish death camps. How can people lie about things we have so much evidence for? Well, I guess I shouldn't be too surprised my entire family fell for a religious scam that lasted seven generations. Anyway, thanks for sharing this link, it really made me think.

This whole flag business is divide and conquer. It's a psyops propagated by those who consolidated and bought up the media. The confederate battle flag means many things to many people. I had ancestors who fought for the confederacy. They were poor people who lived in the mountains of North Carolina and never owned slaves. Many people in the confederacy hated slavery including some of the generals including Robert E Lee. When lincoln's army invaded Virginia the view from the south was they were being invaded from the north. They were fighting for their home states. Everyone thought the war would last a few weeks and it went on for years with very high casualty rates. Most the war took place in the south and Lincoln's burned earth policy and Sherman's full destruction march through the south didn't win any friends down there. The confederate flag never offended me. Never offended me when I saw it behind southern rock bands. Never offended me when I saw it on Dukes of Hazard. It's a symbol. It means many things. Heck it can mean whatever you want it to be. Time to get beyond it. We are being played. You weren't offended when Lynard Skynard had it on their stage years ago. Why be offended now? Because the media tells you to be?

Thank You.

Whatever else it may be a symbol of, the Confederate flag is a symbol of racism, specifically, that white people should be allowed to own and treat black people like livestock.

Like I said above in the thread, When NASCAR turns against it, it's over. Or as a snarky jpg on the internet proclaimed, "when something is too white trash for Walmart, it is too white trash."

Half of my ancestors are from the deep south. My grandfather (aka granddaddy in southernese)) was born in 1890 in Georgia, so there were a lot of people still alive then who had fought in the Civil War. That side of the family was Mormon and racist. The younger generation is still Mormon. Not sure how racist they are. They certainly don't sound racist, and they also have zero southern accent, which frankly surprised me when I met them at BYU.

I'm pretty sure the times, they are a-changing, and the flag is part of it. Corporations and governments will no longer display it, so the institutional racism is done. Private racism will take longer. There is still plenty of that around in all races.

Just like homophobia. There is still plenty of private homophobia, but institutional homophobia in the US is, if not gone, seriously weakened.

Not everyone in the South owned slaves, as in only 6 percent, and the confederate forces reflected that statistic, as in the vast majority of confederate troops did NOT own slaves. Are we really expected to believe that the vast majority of confederate troops were fighting for the right of SOME ONE ELSE to own slaves and exploit slaves ? that would put most of the confederate troops into a form of slavery in its own right known as battle field fodder -being exploited with out chance for benefit with the added "benefit" of the potentially of having their ass shot off. The rebels were resisting what they saw as northern encroachment, they were not risking their lives to prolong slavery. and by the US constitution the south had the legal right to secede at the time. Lincoln in essence said: this is a free country and you are going to be part of it whether you like it or not! Then the dying over the matter started. The American Civil war was fought over the same thing that most wars are fought over -MONEY! and who gets to have it and control it. A lot of the civil war currency was printed with the notice right on it that it would be honored by banks on either side of the battle lines, because the banks which drove the thing had everything to gain. Ending agricultural slavery, which was about to happen any way with the advent of mechanized farm machinery, was just the excuse for the war. Virtual slavery in industrial settings would persist for quite some time, decades more, in the North. That is not a justification of slavery, but the FACT remains that however dismal that picking cotton really was, it was a picnic compared to working in a steel mill or a coal mine at the time however free that kind of employee supposedly was (to have their job kill them), which was really just a count down to ending up dead.

so tell us what happened to slaves when they got old and could no longer pick cotton.

they usually lived out their days on the estate in their shanties in retirement. Sometimes acknowledged owners of their wooden homes. And sometimes they were sold off especially when their master or mistress died. (diary of a slave girl)

they were murdered.

Just like animals who are no longer useful. That's horrible!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/29/2015 11:38PM by brandywine.

No your right, most Confederate troops were to poor to own slaves. It was about money, to pay the troops to fight for the wealthy land owners. These are the people with the slaves and were making tons of money with their slave labor. I find it funny that so many people try to twist the facts. Simple, if you fly a Confederate flag it represents the battle against the united States so slavery would be legal. Don't cloud the issue with BS reasoning.

+10000 we have bigger issues facing this nation besides this...

Just as an update, my neighbor was flying a confederate flag from his truck and on the flag it said "heritage not hate". Pretty sure my neighbors have been living in Utah for generations though. I don't think they have any southern heritage at all.

Utah Territory was a thorn in the rump to the Union during the conflict, but not much else. Waving the battle flag in Zion is a pretty big stretch.