Several people have been wondering what is going on in Boise to necessitate a meeting like that:

1 - Denver Snuffer has given several firesides (very well attended) in and around the Boise area.

2 - If you listen to Oaks/Turley, they aren't talking about historical issues, they're addressing the modern Church falling away/not having keys/not being led by Prophets. These are Snuffer talking points.

Based on connecting the dots, and my intel from the area, they aren't getting a deluge of people leaving the Church for historical reasons in Boise (any more than anywhere else), instead they are worried about the Snuffer / Waterman crowd.

I am not very familiar with Snuffer and Waterman, do their ideologies line up with each other?

Rick Waterman and Denver Snuffer has very similar criticisms of the Church. That the Church is heading away from Zion and towards Babylon. Both men claim that the Brethren are Prophets and have "keys" of authority, BUT.....

The Brethren are getting scared. They don't send an Apostle to address "issues" unless they're really hurting. Snufferites have "congregations" in Boise, Las Vegas, Phoenix, Salt Lake Valley, Utah Valley, etc. I guess Boise is the biggest problem. Many Mormons are just FED UP with THREE BILLION DOLLAR malls, changes in changeless temple rites, sneaky "Race and Priesthood" statements that are never discussed in General Conference, etc. Many Mormons are waking up and saying: "Something is wrong...something is very, very, very wrong".

Any info on the Boise area get together so for us swine that walked (ok I ran) away from the morg?

It seems mostly based on Denver Snuffer and Rock Waterman pure "Mormonism" and strict adherence to LDS prophets/teachings talking points. These guys are just as nuts or even more so than the current leaders...or so I thought at first. Then I listened to the Dehlin interview w/Waterman, started reading some of the site crap and technically they're stating, "The modern corporation is not Christ's church. It no longer practices or preaches the gospel and principles that Joseph Smith and other leaders gave.

So it' a lot about, "Joseph Smith said and did this, but ,'he hated to write' so it was years later that he sat down and wrote his first journal." So he could of been mistaken in some of his remembrances or he left important items out because he assumed that members already knew many accounts and doctrines that he had given."

Well, it's more of a "doubt your doubts"; and "Obey the leaders, the thinking has been done. All of the history has too many holes and is too confusing for you lay people to understand."

Here's what Mormon stories and comments: http://mormonstories.org/boise-rescue-oaks-turley/

Basically, they both believe that J.S. was a Prophet and that the BoM is true etc. but at some point the Church went astray, keys were lost again, etc. They believe the modern Church has gotten between members and Christ, it is too corporate, too pharaisaical, etc.

Here are a couple of Waterman's blog posts that got him in trouble:

http://puremormonism.blogspot.com/2009/06/too-bad-i-dont-like-beer.html

http://puremormonism.blogspot.com/2011/02/go-ahead-and-skip-that-temple-wedding.html

http://puremormonism.blogspot.nl/2012/12/are-we-paying-too-much-tithing.html#uds-search-results

So, the mormon god is a two time loser when it comes to establishing his church here on earth?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/15/2015 03:11PM by Devoted Exmo.

well, IF MORmON Jesus was not so damn dumb, when Joe Smith asked about polygamy, MORmON Jesus would have said: " HELL NO ! That stupid deal has ALREADY caused WAY TOO MANY PROBLEMS! "

But what did MORmON Jesus do ? - Commanded Joe to institute polygamy. And nearly 200 years later it remains a huge hindrance to MORmON growth. Just like his MORmON followers, MORmON Jesus is not very smart.

Could these 'rescue' meetings back-fire? Do solid TBMs attend, hear that others are having doubts, that there are specific topics causing other TBMs to question and then begin to research it for themselves.....and we all know where that takes you.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/15/2015 03:05PM by caedmon.

Remember: LDS church Doesn't hide anything from people...

GNPE Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Remember: LDS church Doesn't hide anything from
> people...

just ask a Hinckley about that!!!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MUcyR7Qv_1o

If Snuffer espouses the same type of teachings about the GAs as Waterman, I can see the concern in SLC about members in Idaho. Idaho does have a somewhat radical reputation.

I heard that Snuffer has as many as 20,000 followers. If that's true, they were almost all guaranteed FORMER tithe payers as only a TBM's TBM would be a Snuffite.

So even at a median income of $50,000 a year, that's $5k times 20,000. Yes, the math is right. That's $100 million dollars he's stopped from flowing.

Wow HopiBon. Even if you're 1/2 wrong, that's still $50 million a year that's dried up. I think your read of the groups that accept Denver Snuffer is correct - they're TBMs for whom the church is not Mormon enough. You may well be 1/2 wrong, since many of the ultra-believing crowd would be single income households with the wife at home caring for the kids. Even though $50M is a ton to regular folks like you and me, I wonder how much that really hurts the bottom line in the grand scheme.

I was a Snufferite, even went to half of his 10 talks on the Mormon corridor. Yes, I was a TBM that believed in the doctrine. I'd be surprised if there were even 5,000 followers. Most of us thought that he was a true prophet. I'll always be grateful to him for opening my eyes from a believing viewpoint. He seems like a nice and genuine guy. I know Rock Waterman too, and consider him a friend.

My journey out of TSCC took two years. The problem I had was that I wouldn't stop studying. (Not really a problem since I value the truth more than anything). I just didn't want to take Snuffer's word for it that Joseph was innocent of having sex in his polygamous relationships. Since January, my Temple shelf fell as I studied it's history. Then, I made myself look deeply into the history of polygamy. The evidence against JS was incontrovertable! He was guilty pedophile. And with that, I studied the evidence against the BoM, and I mean everything. I don't believe in it anymore. It's just a work of fiction. Why oh why didn't I find this out sooner?!

I stopped hanging out with the snuffer groups because I'm sorry to say that I just can't respect them for willfully keeping their collective heads in the sand, in spite of the fact that many of them are very nice people. Plus the fact that they're obsessed with gathering to zion communities and thinking that the end of the world is imminent. Very tiresome and depressing/silly to be around. I realized that we had just jumped from the frying pan into the fire. No more cults for me! I'd wasted enough of my life in a fear-based, controlling system.

I took my DH and married children out of TSCC with me.

Fascinating. Congratulations on getting your family out.

I think we all need to learn more about the snuffer stuff. How did your local leaders take it? Is there open recruiting? How did like mindedfolks meet and discuss it? Are there regular meetings?

Thanks! Glad to be out. ;)

We were threatened with excommunication. Then love-bombed. Then dropped in on without calling first. (Big surprise. We just don't answer the door now.) Now they studiously avoid us.

No open recruiting. Just found a group on LDSFF. Now they're mostly on Facebook. The people that gather are the ones who read his books, and/or listen to the ten talks given on the Morridor. I heard about a Canadian group that were into woo-woo stuff and doing a mass healing. Kindof weird. There are some really wonderful salt-of-the-earth people, and others who are preppers. Some Halleluia! types, and others talk about the devil and casting off evil spirits and weapons of the devils and such. All kinds of people are attracted to it.

Yes, there are meetings in various cities in Utah and Idaho, some in California. There is Skyping. Some of them pool tithing and give to the poor among themselves. I wasn't interested in that. There are those that come so they can sponge off of the group. They do the sacrament meal with wine and bread. Baptisms in lakes, creeks, ponds, as long as it's living water. They use the baptismal prayer from the BoM.

Definitely the TBMs of TBMs. We were caught up in it for a while. It was a nice, refreshing change from the paralyzing boredom of the Morg.

At first I thought that they were more interested in the truth, but then I saw that people just switched from one rigid belief system for another, even though there was acknowledgement that the white-washed narrative of TSCC was wrong and deceitful, they just couldn't accept that Joseph was not only fallen (assuming he ever was a prophet), couldn't conceive that he was a liar and an adulterer. But if Snuffer acknowledged that, then the foundation of the whole movement would be moot. Because the movement is all about Preserving the Restoration that JS started.

One thing Snuffer said in his last talk was that if people spoke evil of Snuffer, they would be in trouble with God, not only that, but anyone who speaks evil of JS should be very careful not to do it, or else! Just more veiled fear-based threats. That didn't sit well with me.

You committed the ultimate sin.

You studied your way out.

And you got the family out. Now that is putting what you learn to practical use!

I listened to the recording. They took no questions. No actual interaction with their members. So odd.

Nothing odd about that.

Basically a one-way "exhortation"

Cults. More cults forming. These people are all insane.

A cult is defined as following a man or group of men. No one is following Denver Snuffer (he will not have it) and no one is following me.

There is indeed a movement taking place of uncorrelated Mormons. There is no creed, and no leadership, so of course there will be disparate views from one individual to the next. I think this is a good thing. No one is trying to impose their personal religion on anyone else. In order to have a cult, there must be some unanimity around some individual. If you want to call this a cult of Christ, then so be it, but you'll still have trouble pinning anyone down to an oragnized creed.

Uncorrelated Mormons are just that: not subject to being correlated or packaged as a group. Some may therefore embrace for themselves a way of life that others might not embrace also, but isn't it better to celebrate a religion of individualism than to be boxed into a religion of group think?

Not that it's going to matter to me, but were I of an Abrahamic flavored religion, I'd want to know how you are defining "religion", as used in your final paragraph.

Care to take a shot at it?

If you are really Rock Waterman, I would like to know if you feel that what has been posted on this board regarding your movement (if I may call it that) has been fairly and accurately described?

Unlike TSCC, we really try to keep what we say here honest and accurate.

Some heavy shit going down in this thread

The implications are thought provoking

But offshoots have happened before, not a new thing, we just have the internets now...

It will.
As it happened in Swedish rescue...
But why these idiots do not learn their lesson?

It would seem to me that a good question to ask would be something like: "Brother *******, I've heard about a very secret temple ordinance called 'The Second Anointing'. Would you be kind enough to explain exactly what that is and who receives it?"

The GA, of course, would never directly answer it, if at all, but it will cause some in the audience to wonder what the hell you're asking about. The GA should not reject the question under their "no doubting questions allowed" rule since it is not one. It's just an honest inquiry about an actual Mormon ordinance.

Should the question be asked at numerous public meetings, I'm sure even big mouth "Jeffy H" would start to panic. The unholy fifteen's "reign of error" is clearly becoming weaker.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/17/2015 09:03AM by Templar.

I've thought for a while that TBMs care less about the dubious origins of the church and more about how they experience the church daily. And I think the brethren know that while it's relatively easy to bullsh!t their way around history, it's a huge problem to bullsh!t their way around the present. The present One True Corporation sucks. Snuffer and others are calling them on it. Waterman got exed for it. One does NOT get away with leading sheep from the fold by offering a less f#cked up product! And the brethren totally lack the ability/talent/inspiration to improve the product. They're hacks who were chosen by other hacks who were chosen by totally corrupt @ssholes and psychopaths. And now they're reaping what they sowed, or neglected to sow.

Stray Mutt nailed it!

Snuffer's message is powerful in its simplicity.

No guilt trips, no constant appeals for money and free labor,etc.

My understanding is that local groups pool their donated funds and decide on how they will help the poor and needy with these "tithes." Of course this cuts out the corporate church/middleman and must be looked upon with shock and horror at the COB! :-)

They see no need for a huge church bureaucracy, most temples, full time missionaries with huge infrastructure costs like MTCs, Mission Presidents and Homes/Offices, Vehicles, etc.

To be fair, Snuffer's groups look a lot more like historical christianity than the Utah church does or ever did for that matter.

Here's a transcript of the Boise Rescue:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B1_l1xQdDguBOGktRjFhajVLU2M/view?pli=1

Nothing happens in Morland 'by accident'.


we here on the board have been saying for some time that TSCC has painted itself in a corner; This Is It.

'They've fallen, and they can't get up'