A couple of years ago my son went on a faith-promoting trek to reenact the abysmal disaster that was the Martin Handcart Company. He still describes it as the worst experience of his life.

Not only was the trek miserably hot, it was full of dubious history and sappy sentimentalism and daily testimony meetings.

But worst of all to my son was the way the youth, and some of the leaders, treated the wildlife they encountered. My son respects life and is kind to animals, so he fit in very poorly.

There were apparently many frogs in the streams and river areas, and many of the bored youth--and some of the "adult leaders"--devised new ways to kill and torture them. I will spare you the details, because I find them too disturbing. Suffice it to say that anything they could do with their hands, fists, sticks, and knives was on the agenda. My son was a visitor, and one of the youngest, but he told them to knock it off. This, unfortunately, led to "good-natured" taunting and extreme claims of cruelty.

These youth also took it as a personal challenge to kill any bird they could hit with a rock, and the successful ones got bragging rights over the others.

The discussions around the camp (after the "testimonies") were often similar tales of killing twenty coyotes in a single night by blaring out rabbit sounds on a speaker, "plinking" squirrels, etc., etc..

My son was really, really upset by this whole affair. The creepiness of the dress, the wanton disregard for the suffering of animals, the lauding of cruelty, etc., were things he had never been exposed to in his life.

Fast forward two years. We decide to go on a "Father's and Son's" outing with our local ward since it was held on a beautiful stretch of wilderness and my nephew needed someone to take him as his father was away.

No sooner do we get there than we hear laughing and hooting. Two of the men and several of the boys had caught a snake. I will not tell you what they did to it, right then and there, and how they displayed it afterward. After telling one of the leaders what I thought of their campout, we left as soon as we'd arrived.

I'm not sure I can draw broad conclusions based on these tales, but I would advise any parents out there (who does not want his or her children to be around psychopathic levels of animal cruelty) to think long and hard before entrusting their children to LDS "leaders" or "scoutmasters".

I asked my son if this was behavior common to many of the kids in his school. He said no way. None of the kids he had gone camping, mountain-biking, or climbing with in any non-LDS setting were cruel, or even disrespectful, to animals.

The LDS kill-for-profit farms should do very well for a long time.

What the f*ck is wrong with this picture. Don't they say that animal torture leads to other crimes?

From the Orange Milford Bulletin in Conn:

"The statistics are overwhelming. In a 1997 study by the Massachusetts Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Animals, reported as the first study of its kind, looked at the link between cruelty to animals and crime.

Reported results showed that 70 percent of individuals who abuse animals are also involved in other violent crimes. The study also showed when a person commits animal abuse they are five times more likely to commit violence against people, four times more likely to commit property crimes and three times more likely to be involved in drunken or disorderly offenses."

Stupid kids, stupid adults, and stupid cult.

-Dennis

As long as they're not masturbating...

Revolting.

I remember how I was always appalled at frog abuse among kids I hung out with.

Indifference to suffering is a true measure of a man's character or lack thereof.

The sickening feeling I felt back then returned recently as I read some bio of a certain recent POTUS, who as a youth delighted in frogs'n'fireworks with his brothers at their parents posh vacation retreat.

Nuthin wrong with that sort of character is there, let's ignore it ok?

Looks like the general membership of the church is starting to throw JS under the bus. Either that, or he was just speaking as a man.


History of the Church, Vol. 2, Ch. 5, p. 71:

[May 26, 1834] "…In pitching my tent we found three massasaugas or prairie rattlesnakes, which the brethren were about to kill, but I said, 'Let them alone – don't hurt them! How will the serpent ever lose his venom, while the servants of God possess the same disposition, and continue to make war upon it? Men must become harmless, before the brute creation; and when men lose their vicious dispositions and cease to destroy the animal race, the lion and the lamb can dwell together, and the sucking child can play with the serpent in safety.' The brethren took the serpents carefully on sticks and carried them across the creek. I exhorted the brethren not to kill a serpent, bird, or an animal of any kind during our journey unless it became necessary in order to preserve ourselves from hunger."


Joseph F. Smith, Gospel Doctrine, p. 266:

"I do not believe any man should kill animals or birds unless he needs them for food, and then he should not kill innocent little birds that are not intended for food for man. I think it is wicked for men to thirst in their souls to kill almost everything which possesses animal life. It is wrong, and I have been surprised at prominent men whom I have seen whose very souls seemed to be athirst for the shedding of animal blood. They go off hunting deer, antelope, elk, anything they can find, and what for? 'Just for the fun of it!' Not that they are hungry and need the flesh of their prey, but just because they love to shoot and to destroy life."


Even a profit can get something right on occasion.

It seems that JS had some redeeming qualities after all...although he has his cause and effect a little screwy.

I really don't know if this is an LDS phenomenon or just a bored, unimaginative, aggressive young male phenomenon of some kind.

But the leaders did nothing to discourage it.

It was so bizarre to my son that these same kids got all teary about "the gospel" and "the savior" in testimony meeting. Guess he'd never been around the "God and Guns" crowd much before.

"You kill it, you eat it."

I imagine that the Mormons on this handcart trek were not eating all these frogs. I hear that the French love them. But I do not know how to prepare frog, and game slaughtered for the table is to be killed swiftly and humanely.

What part of the country were you in? Not to sound prejudice but were these rednecks from the south? If so, and they are old-timey-baptists-stock, then we can blame it on the southern baptists church culture. lol!

I'm a nev-mo from PA, and have had the same type of experiences with the super-religious near our camp along the Allegheny river. There is a family that lives there..the home-schooled, super fanatical religious...no tv, no hot water except for bath nights, blah blah blah...but..

their boys are the ones who use chipmunks as target practice, try to kill birds, want to kill the snakes when they see them, etc etc.

My kids..the ones raised with satellite tv, video games and the now-atheist mom never understood or took part, and would tell them to just leave the snakes alone, and remind them that killing the birds is a federal offense.

Although I seldom trust Boy Scouts, I'm pretty sure that normal Boy Scouts do not approve of this activity. But I also have been on campouts like you're talking about. The problem is that Mormons often have idiots leading leading the mature. I think that the boys' behavior is set by the adults in charge. We can all be idiots, but Mormons love to codify the behaviour.