I am getting really sick of Catholics. I am one, but I'm still sick of them and it's making me dislike my religion. Some Mormons I know seem pretty ex-mormon at heart, but they stay because they consider themselves Social Mormons because they like the social aspect of their religion. I did not like the social aspect of Mormonism at all and I'm a social person. I guess it's like the phrase, "Don't eat where you shit". I don't like to socialize where I go to worship. I just think religious people are for the most part so pious. I really miss being an atheist, because as an atheist, I seemed to be surrounded by all atheist people. I have since moved a couple of times, so am far away from all of my atheist friends. I also am in the Mountain West now, so there are fewer atheist, but I really seem to be surrounded by all religious zealots now! I'm starting to develop closer relationships and friendships with Catholics and am even dating a Catholic now and the homogeneous aspect of it all is driving me crazy. The Catholics really seem to act like the Mormons I knew/know in a lot of aspects. I wasn't expecting this. I guess I only knew two Catholics before I converted and both were guys I had sex with, so they were no zealots, for sure. I just need to hear some voices of reason. Am I wrong for starting to dislike a religion that brought me happiness because the people are starting to bug me? Is there a difference between a religion and its people? I like the theology, but not necessarily the attitudes of the people. Any thoughts? (By the way, I know I'm being snobby. This has just been bugging me a lot lately and have found myself skipping mass because I'm just so Catholiced out by simply being around Catholics. I have such a bad taste in my mouth).

The ones that "bug" you are the ones that are "true believers." In both mormonism and catholicism. And pretty much any other religion. It's the slackers and non-true-believers you've been getting along with. That should tell you something.

While dating a catholic girl, about a year after I left, I went to catholic mass pretty regularly. I liked it -- it was so non-judgmental, so welcoming, so casual compared to mormon meetings. At first, anyway. After I'd been going a while, people started to recognize me. The "true believers" would then ask me if I wanted to be in the choir, or do some other job. I let them know I wasn't a catholic. That's when welcoming and casual pretty much ended. I got a continuing stream of "suggestions" after that to be baptized, do the classes, do first communion, and join up as a "true christian." And I got love bombed. It started to feel very mormon, and I stopped going.

I realized it's not mormonism or catholicism -- it's religion. Religion is tribal. Even the most welcoming ones. If you're not part of the tribe, you're not as welcome -- and you're pressured to become part. If you're part of the tribe and you're not doing what the true believers think you should, you're pressured to conform. It's at different levels at different churches, but some aspects of it are at ALL churches.

ThatLittleBriggyWentWeeWeeWee Wrote:
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> ...they like the social aspect of their religion.

Which in Mormonism usually means they like having a ready-made social circle and not needing to go out and actually make friends.

Sorry I can't help you any with Catholicism. But I can say this. I purposely chose an independent Christian church that focuses on drawing people who are far from God. That way I get to be around Christians and Atheists and agnostics and seculars and apathetics and parentheticals (OK, not really, I just made that last one up) all at the same time. Being among all the same type, especially if there is a tendency toward inauthenticity, would be hard for me, too.

Authentic Love, Radical Acceptance, Insane Generosity, and Empowerment are the four cornerstones of the place I hang out. Very attractive to the 20's and 30's crowd, which hasn't described me in a VERY long time. But it describes my kids, and they love it also. Everything is raw and real, too much so for lots of people; it's an acquired taste. Not sure if anything like that is available within Catholicism.

All the best,

JAR

I have serious issues with tribal culture. That's part of why I'm a suburban hermit.

I am strongly tied to the truth. This is what led me out of Mormonism. I came to believe it was not true, and I could not stay in a false religion. So now I am an atheist. It is not in me to pretend to be a Mormon or Catholic or anything else like that.

Choose the right, let the consequence follow. If my decision has social consequences for me, then so be it.

Reading your post, I was a bit confused. In your mind, what is true? Is Catholicism true? Is atheism true? If Catholicism is true, then it does not matter if you have trouble getting along with Catholics. You should still be Catholic. Maybe if you looked around some more, you could find some Catholics who are more like you, and who you would be happy to hang out with.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/20/2015 04:30PM by Heretic 2.

"Is there a difference between a religion and its people?"

Religion is a lifestyle for the truly religious and it informs their actions and their thinking. These deep beliefs cannot help but permeate their interactions with others. So, how do you separate the religion from the person? You don't.

If you are the type of person who likes to be open to new ways, new thinking, new experiences without the constraints of a dogma, then you are going to enjoy likeminded people the most.

I would say the honeymoon is over and you just realized beloved snores and picks his nose.

Thanks. You guys all have a lot of good points that have given me something to ponder. I really am coming to the conclusion that I don't like organized religion, but I have something innate in me that has the need to worship the supernatural. I just don't like the social aspect. Life was easier as an atheist! I miss being around scientifically and logically minded people who lack the pious/judgmental attitude I am currently finding myself surrounded by. I hope that I remain an open-minded individual, the further entrenched in my new religion I become. I will have to watch myself closely. I guess I should view this as an opportunity to challenge my open mind by being more accepting of the religiously pious people I now know. People are people, no matter their beliefs and different groups of people have something new and interesting to offer. I also need to remember that there are still individuals within the group and will seek out individuals who lack the judgment and narrow-mindedness that many religious people seem to cling to. I think that the above poster who said that I am probably used to connecting with the non-believers is correct. I connected with them in moism, so it would make sense that this is what I connect with as a Catholic. A new religion is just such a challenge for the skeptic. As I start to hold catholicism to the same litmus test that I held mormonism to, I am starting to have my doubts. I just wish I could simply attend mass and not have religion bleed into the rest of my daily life and thoughts, but I'm finding that to be impossible, the more involved and entrenched I become. I'm losing some sure footing in my life and its a bit scary. Religion is scary. I just wish I did not have such a need for ritual and worship.

When I was transitioning out of religion, I found a quote from Dr. Andrew Weil that I found very helpful:

"The essence of spirituality is connectedness; an inner sense that we are not random, isolated creatures but part of something sacred and infinitely larger than ourselves."

I realized that I did not need an institution or packaged belief system to explore my own life experience. I am now well settled into an almost entirely secular lifestyle, but can still appreciate a little ritual and ceremony for what it is -- time to feel whatever that thing is that we call spirit.

Perhaps you could construct a personal shrine where you can spend time praying, or meditating, or doing whatever feels right for you. If you're not looking for a social aspect, there is no reason to adopt anyone else's belief system. Just take the time to carve out your own little space. Get your own candles, or incense, or images, or whatever works for you.

I'm another one who's all about truth; I could not imagine being part of any faith community if I really believed the basis of it was false.

So nominal attenders of any faith puzzle me. I'm a Christian, and I've had my fair share of faith crises and things I don't understand, but if I ever came to the conclusion that Jesus wasn't God, there's no way I'd carry on with it as... what? A charade? Or a social club? I absolutely wouldn't see the point.

But a lot of people do it. And I don't know... it'd be a dull world if we were all the same, I suppose...

Most Catholics that I was raised with were not zealots. I would estimate that the truly hard-core Catholics are maybe 5% of the church membership. If the members are wearing on your nerves, just attend different Catholic churches. There are probably a number of them within driving distance. Go to mass, go home. No need to socialize if you don't want to.

I didn't realize there was a social aspect to mormonism. Oh yeah, my ward talks shit about me and my kids and they wonder why we don't go anymore.