I have a mormon neice who just revealed (via facebook) that she is in a relationship with another girl. She has many facebook friends who are also mormon. She says that she still believes in her religion. What is likely to happen her? Can she be excommunicated for this?

She's on the short list for a court of love now.

I am not mormon (my husband's family is). What happens in a court of love?

I have heard on here of people being ex'd for being open about it. I have also heard on here of people being allowed to be homosexual just as long as they don't act on it.

You can be attracted but no more. If she does not 'repent' immediately she will likely get the boot.

Truthfully though it may be the best thing for her. Despite her continued belief there is no place in her in religion that doesn't require a complete denial of who she is. Sad.

While she may still "believe in her religion", her religion no longer believes in her.

It's the perfect way to describe the situation.

I agree with GayLayAle. Wow, StillAnon, you've distilled the matter to one beautiful sentence.

I recently read the new pamphlet the church released regarding homosexuality. It said as long as they don't act on it they are free to still have callings, etc. But it sounded like they could only feel that way, they are not allowed to act on their feelings. So if she's in a relationship that's acting on it. I'm not sure what they'll do. I'm sorry your niece has to grow up in the church- too bad she can't be in an environment where she's more accepted. But I guess that's where you come in!!

Does the pamphlet say what they are to do if someone is acting on their feelings?

Here's a link for the pamphlet:

http://lds.org/ldsorg/v/index.jsp?vgnextoid=e1fa5f74db46c010VgnVCM1000004d82620aRCRD&locale=0&sourceId=3e05c8322e1b3110VgnVCM100000176f620a____

It doesn't specifically say what happens, just that if you sin you can repent and all that stuff. It says that sexual relations are only for marriage. So I think it would be treated the same way as if an unmarried couple had sex. If they didn't repent they would be excommunicated. Your niece could repent but that wouldnt be being true to herself.

thanks for the link. When I asked my neice how she reconciled her mormonism with her same-sex relationship she said she didn't think it mattered. I brought up that I had heard mormons could get excommunicated for being gay. First, she said she is not gay, just in love with a woman. Than, she said she had never even heard of excommunication (she is only 18).

Your niece may not think it matters but as soon as the news gets to her bishop it will matter plenty! From what you've described it sounds as though your niece is quite naive about both her relationship (openly gay) and her status as a Mormon. Bottom line - she's going to have to give up one or the other eventually. My hope is she tells her bishop where to stick his "court of love" and stay in her lesbian relationship. She'll be much happier in the long run. My best to her.

If she's actively living a gay life, that would be grounds for excommunication. You can only be gay in the Mormon Church if you lead a completely celebate life, for the rest of your life. Or if you manage to marry someone of the opposite sex and have a family, which I wouldn't recommend anyone try to do, I've seen that be okay with the Church too.

Although, I do know of a guy, from my hometown, who now lives in San Francisco,who is openly gay and writes about it. In fact, he has a book coming out soon about his experiences being a gay man (in a homosexual relationship) in the mormon church. He is a fully believing mormon too. So far, he has not been excommunicated. Perhaps this is because he lives in San Fran?

Some Nazi bishops think that being Gay, and being part of the Gay community as far as support and friends go, is associating with apostate groups who are against the church. And therefore you have to not only be celibate, but not associate with other Gays.

I'm a nevermo and I'm on the board because I recently entered into a lesbian relationship with a Mormon girl. She's new to this and has not come out to her church or family, but is fairly open about our relationship otherwise. She hasn't had any problems as of yet. I have a good friend who is TBM but also the most gay-friendly liberal person I've met. She's been my go-to for advice from within the church (this board is like the counter-point to the advice she gives me, since she believes in the church 100%). She has seen gay mormon friends go through the coming out at church process, and she told me that (with our local bishops at least) it tends to be dealt with fairly decently. The way she explained it to me was that when you're a part of the church you enter into covenants, and if you're going to consistently be breaking those covenants with no intention of stopping then it's best to be released from them instead. I hear all churches are different, but the excommunication process here is not as traumatic as many I've heard of. You can still go to church and attend all the functions. Just no temple and some other things like that. Yes, there will be plenty of fellow church-member that judge you and gossip, but that's just the way things are (unfortunately).

The girl I'm seeing says she still believes in the scriptures completely. She seems to be wavering in her devotion to the church a bit, but she believe in the scriptures and very much considers herself Mormon. I don't get into theological debates with her because our viewpoints are incredibly different and I know I'd wind up frustrating myself trying to point out all the contradictions and inanities within the morg. So I'm not sure how she feels about being a gay Mormon. From looking at information since I started seeing her I've found it's actually not all that uncommon.

If your niece is going public then she's probably going to be excommunicated. Maybe she's falling into the NOM category, and believing in the scriptures without living her life by a strict set of codes. I wish her the best. Coming out is scary even when you're not part of a huge church organization.

Remember the gay guy who got fired from his church job for hanging out with his gay friends? She will be ex'd if she is in a relationship and her presiding authority finds out.

But you can bet that the dirty old sods on the Court of Love will take painstaking efforts to get all the details of the relationship.

Thing is, if a Mormon can't go to the temple, it's pretty much all finished. Beulahland, you might need to be very strong for your lover, because it's a really bumpy ride.

Yeah, I am fully prepared for the bumpy ride. And if she decides it's too hard and goes back to being what the church wants her to be then I'm prepared for that too. Thing is, I've been dating women for 14 years and I've never met one that came close to being as amazing as her. So... I'm keeping my expectations low. I'm enjoying every moment we have together because at no point have I assumed this would last. If it does then that's wonderful, but it's not something I stress about because I know it's unlikely. I want her to be happy, and I hope like hell she can be herself and be happy without getting sucked into waiting for someone to tell her she's happy.

because lesbians don't really have sex, they don't have a penis, so the worst thing she can do is what, oral. No X for oral.

Not to mention that, yes, she still could be x'd.

they don't like to X people that don't hold the MP. And we had multiple women who cheated on their husbands not get X'd, just disfellowshipped. And we had one lesbian and this was the exact phrase used by the bishop during the deliberations of the court. Handbook confirms, no penis insertion, no need to X.

Then that reading of it rested entirely on that one bishop.

I know because I've been threatened with a court of love before, and it was over oral.

you will have your court of love, but not X'd, just disfellowshipped or on probation.

Ok, that raises a question that deserves it's own thread.

ummmm just because there's no penis doesn't mean it's not sex.

Damn people say some crazy things around here...

Only if they're "realistically shaped and veined."

Pink with butterflies and hearts? Doesn't count.

TJ speaks as if with authority, but doesn't have a clue. Lesbians get ex'd regularly, not disfellowshipped or censured, but ex'd.

Cheating wives: ex'd.
Women for Mrs. God: ex'd.

There's not much preferrential treatment, if any.

Just sayin'...

Ron

In my experience, there is preferential treatment involved in these cases, but perhaps no more than in any other case that could potentially go to one of these kangaroo courts. I won't use myself as an example because I stopped going to church a looooong time before I came out and nobody at church knows me or knows that I'm gay, but my sister was out in high school (early-mid 80s)and has never been threatened with discipline. Why? At first partly because she was young and potentially curable, then partly because she wasn't active and in anyone's face, but I think she was also given the benefit of the doubt all along because members of our family had been put on a pedestal for years (stake patriarch/bishop types) and contributed lots of tithing $$$ over the years. Nobody was going to mess with that. I think the PR factor, the $$$ factor, etc. are always part of the equation.