I hate when Mormons say the main reason people leave their church is because they get offended. I want to pose the question what is so wrong with getting offended and leaving? They act as if me getting offended at something is some huge fault of mine. But lets look at it from my point of view why would I stick around some place that is offensive and hurtful to me.

The two main reasons I left tscc are because I disagree with their "doctrines" and I was often bullied. Both of those things are offensive to me and are harmful to me. Why would I stay? And why do they act like my getting offended is the big sin here?

I would just like to say that I am glad I got offended. I am proud of it because if I hadn't I would still be in that church being trampled under the feet of its members like a worthless piece of shit.

The LDS church's doctrines and morals offend me, that's why I don't attend their church anymore. It's like hanging around a party where bad jokes are told and Linburger cheese is created and eaten. It's just an offensive atmosphere.

Those that AREN'T offended by Mormonism are the ones with the problem. The racism, sexism and homophobia are reasons enough to turn your back forever on the vile cult.

+ 1. Totally agree with this.

Excellent perspective. Next time respond this way:

"Offended? Absolutely I'm offended. How could you NOT be offended? Where is your sense of Christian charity? Where is your sense of reason that Heavenly Father gave you? Where is your agency? How can you not be exercising your agency to combat":

(Insert issue here)

"Talking to young children about personal sexual issues without their parents"

"Teaching that blacks are inferior then lying about it"

Keep going...

I actually DO reply this way when accused of being offended! My list goes on and on.... it shuts them right up!

I read a facebook post where the author said that people should NOT allow themselves to be offended. IMHO, statements like that put the fault on the person that was offended, not the person that offended them. I have feelings. Am I supposed to deny my feelings so that I don't allow myself to be offended? I certainly don't think so. It's not my fault they are rude and don't use any kind of tact.

I want to laugh every time someone says I left TSCC because I was offended. I had some bad experiences and some good ones but I left because I didn't believe it was true and didn't want to waste my time on it anymore. I can certainly understand why someone would leave because they were "offended" or upset by something. That is their right to leave and not put up with it anymore.

Many LDS people have no boundaries. They can be very offensive and I don't have feel bad that they make me mad from time to time.

formermollymormon Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> Many LDS people have no boundaries. They can be
> very offensive and I don't have feel bad that they
> make me mad from time to time.

So true, many LDS people really have no boundaries, and others are so arrogant, they offend others by their bullying behavior. They don't realize that boundary stomping and bullying are why Mormons aren't always liked by the outside world.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/04/2015 02:38AM by adoylelb.

There are good reasons to get offended, but some TBMs think people leave the church because they get offended over little things like getting told they're wrong in Sunday School or having an argument over milk stripping or not getting a calling they wanted. Those are things not worth getting offended about (at least not to the extent that you'd change religion), but ex-mormons are painted as if most of them leave the church for reasons like that. This has the effect of making us look stupid, and makes other mormons scared to leave as they know if they do everybody will think they left over being offended too, and nobody wants to look stupid.

Basically, this whole "getting offended" thing is probably a tactic to stop people leaving. And for the most part it works, and can make life hell for those that do get the courage to leave.

As soon as someone finds out you've left the church, there has to be a reason in their mind that doesn't involve the church not being true. Otherwise, their testimony gets shaken. They want to make sure that your reason doesn't apply also to them. So the 'offended' thing works well. It beats the alternative in their minds that they belong to a cult. The fault then is on you because being offended is not supposed to be a good reason to leave and if you do, the fault is on you, at least in their minds. This all plays well in to the fact that mormons generally do not apologize for anything because that would require them admitting fault. By example, the church teaches its members to never admit fault. So when you've been offended (whether for real or just in their minds), they can smugly blame you and move on.

Nothing, in fact it is right to be offended by morally condemnable doctrine and teachings.

Being offended by abuse, exploitation, and deception demonstrates a healthy self-esteem and understanding of appropriate social and moral behavior.

Nothing wrong with that.

Poin0 said:

>> Basically, this whole "getting offended" thing is probably a tactic to stop people leaving. <<

You know, that’s exactly how it always struck me since the first time I ever heard it mentioned here on RfM. The psychology employed and trickled down through the culture is one of the most fascinating aspects for me of reading RfM. Once your gone, your not even there anymore. It’s absolutely meant for the ears of the faithful. And it’s a threat to not look stupid in front of your peers. It subconsciously threatens people’s self esteem.

The top echelon must certainly have some private literature they all read to outline all these tactics that have developed over the history of the cult. Just to keep them abreast and tune them into how each aspect works, like a psychology manifesto or something. It’s too perfectly crafted and perpetuated out into the culture to not be very much on purpose, and what shows me the top people are not ‘believers’ in any way, shape, or form. These aren’t accidental culture anomalies; this is well crafted and well thought out stuff.

I see this often (deep psychological manipulation) in many of the cultural complaints I read here. It’s psychology 101 (or maybe 201), with an emphasis on the psycho. It’s pretty heavy stuff to have dumped on your brain. My sympathy’s to everyone. It’s a cult (in case I haven't said that lately.)

Forgot to add:

It's a challenge (a dare) to not be offended, while you stand there being offended. Pretty soon you'll just shut down your 'I'm offended' mechanism. It's a bully tactic.

The offended label is an attempt to make the people that leave appear to be weak minded people to the ones that stay in the church.

The church PR machine has done a very good job with this. When a TBM finds out you have left the church the first thing they think is that you must have been offended or you wanted to sin without the guilt. This instantly makes you seem like a lesser person to the TBM. TBM's typically will not ask you why you left the church because they already know.

There is nothing wrong with leaving behind cause you find the church and it's teachings offensive. TBM's aren't referring to that type of being offended. They mean that you had a petty dispute with one of the members and are no longer attending church because you want to make a show of avoiding said member above your own salvation.

Your definition of being offended is far more valid and respectable.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/04/2015 10:04AM by jdawg333.

It's part of Steve Hassan's BITE model of cult mind control:


Under E for Emotional Control:

d. Never a legitimate reason to leave; those who leave are weak, undisciplined, unspiritual, worldly, brainwashed by family or counselor, or seduced by money, sex, or rock and roll [inserted offended]

This is what I meant when I told people that was the only reason that weak saints left. I was certain that they left to avoid particular people, not that the doctrine was offensive.

Looking back now, I can't believe some of the things I cheerfully complied with and put up with over the years.

I was raised to be submissive, to please, to do whatever was asked by people I felt had the right to ask me to do things for them (and this included family members, ward members, and bishops). I was raised to keep silent, and comply rather than tell them when I was annoyed with a request.

What I wasn't taught, was to listen to my own feelings or to set boundaries, when I felt annoyed or downright angry.

Where was my moral outrage when bishops asked me awkward questions about my sexuality (starting at an age when I didn't even know what he was talking about)? That wasn't allowed. I had no boundaries when people asked me to donate my time to do things that were a waste of time, or completely tedious and annoying to me. I felt I was just supposed to donate my time and talents, and I felt it would be arrogant to say "No, I'm not interested in doing that," even though I would have felt perfectly fine about about turning them down if someone had offered me a paying job doing the same thing.

I was also much too worried about giving offense. It affected my ability to say 'no", or tell people when they were behaving badly. And I think that's why some LDS church members and many leaders have BECOME so offensive. Nobody dares challenge them, and their behavior goes unchecked. Rather than examining themselves when people supposedly 'get offended', they blame the victim.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/04/2015 10:47AM by imaworkinonit.

I think it actually works on three levels. 1. It labels the dissenter, so they are punished. (And people want to avoid that punishment, but it’s also a poke in the eye to people who leave as well.) 2. Yes, it creates an ‘us and them’ scenario, and gives people a reason to feel superior if they stayed in the church, then they’re not one of those lesser people. But the deepest, most important level for the church is number three. 3. If they know people, newcomers especially, are for certain going to be offended, then you make a big deal out of denying that what you are doing is offensive, with a big crowd around the person agreeing that nothing here is offensive. You make being offended a taboo.

Now here’s the real deep reason they’re doing this. This causes people to disassociate from reality. It’s like a pill. It makes people pliant and turns them into robots, because they shut their minds off to avoid the cognitive dissonance between what they are experiencing and what they are being told. Punch someone in the face, and say hey, we didn’t punch you in the face. Hey Mary, did you see me punch this guy in the face? Nope. Jeff, did you see anything? Nope. Punch them in the face again. In a large crowd of people, who you respect and want to be a part of, this will make a person disassociate from reality and leave them a mental robot. They’ll let you punch them in the face eventually and not ask about it, even if it still doesn’t feel very good to get punched in the face. This extreme example seems silly, but it is how disassociation works.

That’s the deepest part of what I think they’re doing here. We’re not offensive. Those people are just offended. It makes a taboo out of being offended, and now they are free to offend you. And your mind is now a little more pliant to being further manipulated, because they’re actually getting you to shut off your reasoning faculties, all on you own in order to stay within the group.

This is the exact same reason for the temple ceremony. It elicits the exact same psychological disassociation response in people when you are sexually molested ritually in a group setting, and then everyone else around you talks about how great it was, and how didn’t you just think that was great. The only way not to have a nervous breakdown at the conflict between your internal truth meter (that was scary and creepy) and what your outer senses are telling you (everyone else loved it) is to disassociate from reality and go along with what your outer senses are perceiving. Now you don’t trust your own rational mind anymore. Do this enough, and in enough different ways, and you will completely suppress and shut off your reasoning faculties. Now you’re a robot, and will do anything the other sheep do. You’ve shut off you ability to even contemplate what your doing anymore, and you give them all your money without even much of a thought.

The amount of techniques I see going on in the morgue that create exactly these conditions over and over again, all directed toward the same ultimate purpose (disassociation and denial), is overwhelming (to use an appropriate word.)

This is the real reason I see for starting a rumor that the church is not offensive, while going ahead and being completely offensive to people. And you start that rumor best by pointing at people exiting (the out group), and labeling them as offended. That way you’re not really even addressing whether the morgue is actually offensive or not. This applies a little reverse psychology into it as well, to hide any tracks of the mind screw. It makes you oppress your own offended feelings, as well as heads you down the path of the habit of disassociation. It’s a sin now to be offended. Now they can do anything to you, and you won’t be, or ever get, offended. You’re a robot now.

So yes, there’s the surface ‘We’re better than those offended people’ aspect on one layer. But it’s really the general disassociation they’re after. The inoculation against disassociation is understanding how it works. But careful though, when you learn to identify it, a lot more than just Mormonism starts to fall apart, because it’s used all over the place in our world and societies to control people and make them do things they otherwise would never do. I’m all about raising awareness about it, because our world would be a totally different place if people were inoculated against it.

It’s used on soldiers, on employees, on parents, on everyone. There are people who know how to make your brain disassociate in order to get you to willingly do the most egregious things. Disassociation is not your friend. But most people won’t even recognize, or will even refuse to recognize, that it’s ever happening to them. Just like in the Morgue. It’ll even make them angry as a defense mechanism when you point it out to them (which means the group will self-police against inoculation and emancipation.) It really is the perfect crime.

These guys really know what their doing. That’s why they’re so rich and have such a huge following. Awareness is the weapon, though.

Nothing is "wrong" with taking offense. Everyone does it, probably many times in their lifetime.
My point, in many of my posts regarding the process of leaving the LDS Church, is about personal power: taking your power back and owning it and not giving others the power to upset us unnecessarily. We do not have to give others permission to take our power away over our own sense of well being, emotions, etc. We can ignore other people's attempts to disrupt our inner peace and sense of well being.

Just because someone is offensive, does not mean we are required to take offense! The key here is being the one in control of our lives, not a leaf to be tossed around by an ill wind!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/04/2015 12:51PM by SusieQ#1.

The most easily offended group of people on the planet are Mormons.

Seriously, they freak out about a cigarette 500 yards away, and let EVERYONE know about it...

Bullies blame their victims.

What about those who say a person has to choose to be offended? Perhaps it's my own personality but I don't let anyone offend me enough to make me stop doing something I know is right; not allowing that person to have any control over what I do or believe in.

Was I offended?

Well, I certainly took umbrage.

growing up in mormonism. I was certainly offended by the reply Packer sent me about gays. Did I quit going? No. I kept telling myself that I needed to overlook that stuff. If I was going to leave over being offended, I would have left while in primary.

Now--I just found the most recent event offensive. Yesterday, I got out of my car in front of my home and a lady was getting out of her car across the street. She yelled, 'Hello, ______'s mom." My daughter is very well "loved" in this ward. It kind of threw me as I had no clue who she is, and obviously she doesn't know who I am as she didn't even use my name. So, someone knocks on the door this afternoon and there this woman is with 3 little primary girls giving me a potted plant for mother's day.

This woman has yet to call me by my name. And they seem to think we don't know what they are up to . . .

I find that offensive and the fact she brought the little primary girls (who are all my nextdoor neighbors on both sides) to help her out in her missionary effort to save ________'s mom.

Boy a mormon at work sure was offended when I sent out a joke email with the word "shit" in it...THEN it's ok to be offended...but if you're offended by JS's questionable tactics on gathering a harem of young girls and other mens' wives, or BY's blatant racism...THEN it is trivial to..... mormons..

Adding to 'nonmo_1', If asked the "were you offended question" I learned the appropriate response here on rfm.

"Yes, I was offended. Offended by Joseph Smith's actions, as laid out in the churches own essays, deeply offended me. They are so beyound the pale of the imperfections of men, so numerous, and of such magnitude that I just cannot give him 'a pass'."

If you're like Mother Theresa x100 and manage to not be offended, it doesn't make TSCC less bogus.

The universal sin is probably taking oneself too seriously. Mormons take themselves and their kooky BS far too seriously. Maybe that's what makes them so obnoxious.