Superman said that he's never heard of Zelph, or the mounds. I'm sure there are Zelph-threads a plenty; I doubt one more is going to hurt...

Here's the first paragraph from Wikipedia:

Zelph (/zɛlf/) is a figure of interest in Mormon studies. In May and June 1834 Joseph Smith led a Mormon group (a paramilitary expedition known as Zion's Camp) on a march from Kirtland, Ohio to Jackson County, Missouri. On June 3, while passing through west-central Illinois near Griggsville, some bones were unearthed from a mound. These bones were identified by Smith as belonging to a Lamanite chieftain-warrior named Zelph. The mound in question is now known as Naples-Russell Mound 8.
-- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zelph

To me, this is the quintessential Joseph Smith. This story and Satan on the Waters, they capture the true spirit of Joseph Smith's pathology: he had to be the center of attention.

Superman, if you haven't already, read the entire entry on Wikipedia and tell us how this new information hits you...

Wasn't Zelp the white lamenite?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/02/2015 11:21PM by saucie.

Yes, Saucie. And he died of lamenitis of the laminates.

oh ouch.... I heard that was really painful. Those lamenites can become really painful and swollen and red.

Book of Mormon STORIES that the missionaries didn't tell to me,
All about the white Lamanites in Joseph's fantasy! The Boner.

'Zelph the White Lamanite' was a Frank Zappa album, I'm pretty sure.

Or shoulda been.

It strikes me as opportunistic grave robbers got caught up to their elbows in mud, and had to come up with a story to cover the obvious degradation.

Oh, my!!
Now why havent I heard about this before today??

Seems like old Zelph was a fairly important figure for God himself to reveal him unto Joseph, and in two differing accounts and places, no doubt.
Was it that, or did Joseph just like going around telling tall tales, and having his followers hanging on every word while desecrating Native American burial grounds.
And why on earth did they take poor Zelph's leg bones with them?

That is definitely a conference talk I want to hear!!

Thank you, elderolddog. I love these interesting tid-bits of mormon history. Have you ever heard the one where a man living in Nauvoo during the 1840's was suspected of some misdeed or crime against the bretheren, and was lured to a spot behind the Masonic Hall, instructed to start digging a new well, and after he had managed to excavate down several feet, they shot him and filled in the hole.
I heard about this event from a fairly good historical source who was adament it was true.
Apparently, quite a few people mysteriously disappeared while in Nauvoo.


https://books.google.com/books?id=dLgUAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA822&lpg=PA822&dq=buried+body+behind+the+masonic+hall+nauvoo&source=bl&ots=SQd9loOd27&sig=iljfVZo6M7O_giG6Rsc6QiOMAWc&hl=en&sa=X&ei=NqBFVbf3KNW1yAT_xYDAAg&ved=0CC0Q6AEwBQ

Someone needs to sell Zelph on a Shelf at Xmas through Deseret Book.

Zelph Operation game (put his vandalized bones back together so there's no mix-up during resurrection...)

The mormons have been trying to put Zelph on a shelf since 1834

=)
Some of those shelves are getting very heavy these days...

"Tall, Mighty General fighting for freedom for his people"

Smith probably thought "Hey, that pretty well sums up my(SELF) I'll call him ZELPH"

Dang! How did I miss Zelph in the Book of Mormon stories?

The things my mother didn't tell me.

Zelph, the elf, fell off the shelf.

Joseph so conveniently turned any thing into a myth for his tabloid faith.

He was pathological.

I wish I knew back when what I know now. I'd have been thrown out of primary. ;)

I read a comment from an rfm poster on a previous thread that has always stuck with me.

I was investigating my way out of the church and they said something along the lines that some archeologists search their whole lives and never find anything like the discoveries than landed in Joseph Smith's lap.

Then they listed the Book of Mormon, Book of Abraham, Zelph the Lamanite, the Altar of Adam, the Garden of Eden and a few more. Pretty incredible stuff.

Except that he was a complete liar and all these tall stories should have been an indicator than he lied as easily as he breathed.

A very good comment, well worth repeating.

Apparently the size of Zelph's leg bones indicated a height of 8 to 9 feet. He was a mighty warrior, known from the Atlantic Ocean to the Rocky Mountains. So why wasn't he mentioned in the Book of Mormon? I would have loved to see Arnold Friberg's painting of Zelph.

"I read a comment from an rfm poster on a previous thread that has always stuck with me.

"I was investigating my way out of the church and they said something along the lines that some archeologists search their whole lives and never find anything like the discoveries than landed in Joseph Smith's lap."

Sounds like you're referring to this:

"Let's not forget, he also discovered "an old Nephite tower" in Missouri, the
bones of a giant "white Lamanite" named Zelph, and declared that the
"Kinderhook Plates" were ancient records, just as the BOM and BOA had been.
Modern archaelogists work an entire lifetime to make a single find, but ol'
Joe Smith was stumbling over some of the most remarkable ancient artifacts in
the history of the world with every step he took."

http://www.exmormon.org/mormon/mormon007.htm

On that note: Mormon apologists often blame the lack of discovery of archaelogical evidence to support the BOM on non-Mormon researchers. The apologists claim that non-Mormon scholars don't want the BOM to be true, therefore they ignore or downplay possible BOM evidence. I've heard some Mopologists even assert that non-Mormon scholars would lose their positions if they entertained the idea of the BOM being true.

Of course, those assertions are ridiculous. If any archaelogist discovered evidence which proves that the people and cultures as described in the BOM lived in Pre-Columbian America, it would make his career. The BOM people are so different from what we know about ancient America, and their culture, population figures, technology, etc., are so intricately described in the BOM, that the discovery of that culture would set the field of American archaelogy on its ear. No scholar would work to prevent evidence of such a culture to be exposed to the world.

The layman Joseph Smith tripped over alleged BOM artifacts that were lying all around him in plain sight; but no professional archaelogist has been able to dig up a single item of evidence in 185 years of looking.

Maybe he was that muscular 9 year old on the boat on the way to the New World. That boy was ripped.

Or maybe that was Samuel, I can never remember. They're all names Joe ripped off from the bible or from towns and counties in the New England area.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/03/2015 10:04AM by midwestanon.

Apparently Onandagus was such a great prophet that 1400 years later, he still had lakes, towns, and Indian tribes named after him in the Great Lakes area.

Is there a limerick in here somewhere?

There once was a Lamanite called Zelph
Who fought for his countrymen, not himself.
Along came a fraud
With a "direct line" to God;
Now the faithful can add to their shelf.

That, Vman, is quite elegant! will you grant those of us who appreciate it the right to FB the heck out of it? And when appropriate, to put into the SLTrib and/or DNews comments sections?

Be my guest!

Great synopsis. We need to hold a Zelph memorial, wearing our tapir T-shirts...

Can't you picture ole Joey hardly able to contain his laughter over his story of Zelph? He probably rushed home to write up yet another of his "shenanagin-fooleries" in his secret diary which he kept so as not to forget these great moments in time.

Zelph was most likley Joe's Mormon Paul Bunion. He didn't like the idea that the mormons were not measuring up.

If you want to read Zelph's account it's here:

*Deleted Link*

RFM doesn't like my link to amazon so if you want to see Zelph's account go to amazon and search for "the book of zelph"

...he would have taken a Zelphie.