I was thinking how Utah would look today if Mormon leaders decided and succeeded in having an independent state. Just imagine that USA was not as successful in its war against Mexico as it actually was and Mexico managed to negotiate buffer country in the form of Utah. So no pressure to ban polygamy or underage marriage, no gentiles in the state of Utah, pretty much everyone is LDS. Below is how my post on this forum would like in such a situation.

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Dear exmormons, members of resistance against TSCC, theocratic government of Utah and self-styled son of god and American pharaoh Tom Onson. I write this post because I want to apologize to you for my government. Yesterday as USA signed treaty of economic cooperation with Utah 3 young people were killed in your country - 2 teenage girls for suspected immoral behavior which amounts to them exchanging a kiss and 22 year old man for apostasy. Every year hundreds of resistance members are being put in prison. Your propaganda is still purporting that mountain meadows massacre in which innocent Americans died was because settlers attacked Mormon militia. Today after years of research no independent historian of the period accepts this lie but my governemtn does. Utah is the country with most executions for apostasy in the world with Saudi Arabia being distant second. Now when we fight war against Muslim fundamentalists and criticize them for oppression of women we need to realise that our neighbor doesn’t give drivers licenses to women. When 6 months ago our companies sold to your “pharaoh” fully armored luxury car for 900 000 $ we protested there were not many of us but we were there. As many as 50% of Americans decided to boycott football games with Utah teams due to them not accepting any black players. Many of you view USA as a friend and staunch supporter of your oppressive theocratic government but be sure that many people on the other side of the border support and admire your resistance.

GET UP
STAND UP
DON’T GIVE UP THE FIGHT
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How do you think would independent Utah look like. Persecuted blacks, women and apostates or democracy with rising economy. I wrote this post so you have some nightmares after drinking too much vodka and smoking too much weed this Friday evening :).
I am evil as are all non Mormons :)

Well if the Mexican war would have been lost we probably wouldn't be here. Remember mexican history (which is never taught and no one knows any, not even any mexicans, but I digress) Santana was a monster, a tyrant, he was in cohoots with the Catholic Church.

If you think Mormonism was bad, The "great and abominable" was much worse. Back in the day Mexico was a complete theocracy. The church owned over 50% of the land in the country and the rest, that was of any value, was owned by the catholic spaniards. Absolutely no freedom of religion upon penalty of death. mandatory tithing tax. The indians worked as slaves to the spaniards similar to the blacks in the old south. Brown people had no civil rights whatsoever. If anyone spoke up for an Indian or criticized the church they would perform a violent inquisition on them. Mexicans don't like to talk about this because:
1) most don't know, and
2) 99% are all catholics

If Brigham young would have met Santana there would have been a war of extermination. I don't know which side would have won but it wouldn't have been pretty.



Edited 6 time(s). Last edit at 05/02/2015 04:09AM by poopstone.

I don't think an independent Utah would have lasted. Reformers in the United States hated the twin evils of slavery and polygamy, which was viewed as white slavery. The United States believed in manifest destiny, and already had settlements and business interests in California before Utah was settled. Utah was in the way, in between American lands of the east and American lands in California. And Utah was not always friendly to travelers as the Mountain Meadows Massacre shows. The United States had already fought a couple of wars against the Mormons. One in Missouri, and one when Johnston's army marched on Utah before the Civil War. I think that at some point in this alternate history, Utah would have ticked off America, triggered a war, and been conquered and annexed by America.

I think Utah would have been safe from Mexico, because Mexico was not even able to win the wars against The Lone Star Republic (Texas) nor the Bear Flag Republic (California.) Mexico traditionally focused its money and attention on the more southern part of the country. The north was a wild, dangerous, thinly-settled backwater full of hostile Native Americans. Rather dry and poorly suited to agriculture. There was so much civil war going on in Mexico that foreign conquest was out of the question.

If we check the map of the Kingdom of Deseret. We can see that many states would of had different shapes, AZ probably wouldn't of had the Gadsen purchase.
http://chanceofrain.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/04/img033.jpg

Also with the theocracy? Would there be elections for the Council of Fifty? Would the official language be Deseret Alphabet? Would all legal documents have to be written in Old Biblical language?

Fascinating.

One things for sure, the Kingdom of Desesret would have had plenty of financial clout, considering the mineral wealth alone of so Idaho, Nevada plus a slice of AZ, NM and Texas thrown in.

No wonder Brig hated the Feds. The deluded old fucker thought he was God of the wild wild west.

Thankfully the 'real' God had different plans.