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Posted by: JoD3:360 ( )
Date: April 04, 2011 10:46AM

Special thanks to who ever opsted this originally (sorry I forgot your name) and aknowledgement to Gordon Hinckley who said "we worship a different Christ".


LDS members believe that they are singularly blessed with a record of the earthly ministry of Jesus from his life in Palestine, his visit to the Spirit World, and his visit to the Americas.

Yet, a chronological reading of the story of Jesus’ last week in Palestine to his ministry in the America, using LDS scripture, leaves one puzzled as to the very nature and character of Jesus.

I. Palestine

During the last days of Jesus’ life in Palestine, he entered triumphantly into Jerusalem, healed the sick, instituted the Holy Supper with the apostles, suffered greatly in Gethsemane, was judged and mocked, and then was crucified among common thieves.

In Palestine, Jesus is recorded as being meek and forgiving.

In Luke 22:32, Jesus tells Simon Peter that he is praying for Peter to be strengthened knowing that Peter will betray him three times before sunrise.

Also in Luke chapter 22, Jesus is told of going to Gethsemane and gently rebuking the disciples for following asleep during his personal agony and ordeal.

When Jesus leaves Gethsemane, one of the disciples uses a sword and cuts off the ear of the servant of the high priest. “And Jesus answered and said, ‘Suffer ye thus far.’ And he touched his ear, and healed him.” (Luke 22:51)

Jesus is ridiculed and spat upon. During the night, Peter, as forecasted, betrays Jesus three times. In response Jesus turns his head and looks at Peter, causing Peter to weep bitterly.

Herod, having heard of Jesus’ miracles, mocks him by allowing his men to dress Jesus in a robe before returning the prisoner to Pilate.

Pilate finding no wrong in Jesus, appealed to the crowd gathered who called for his crucifixion. During these acts of vulgarity and ridicule, Jesus is recorded as being passive and submissive.

On the cross at Golgotha, Jesus was placed between two thieves. During the dying process, Jesus is recorded as saying: “Father, forgive them; for they know not what they do.”

Upon hearing Jesus plead for forgiveness, the rulers around him scorned him: “He saved others; let him save himself, if he be Christ, the chosen of God.”

The rulers’ outburst caused the soldiers to add a final insult by placing a wooden placard on the cross above Jesus reading “THIS IS THE KING OF THE JEWS.”

Even the two thieves asked Jesus why he didn’t use his supernatural powers to free himself. As a response, Jesus rebuked one’s disbelief, but then informed that they would be with him in paradise.

The New Testament stories demonstrate a person of quiet dignity, meekness and forgiveness.

II. The Spirit World

According to LDS scripture, immediately upon Jesus’ death, his spirit left his body and ascended to the Spirit World. Jesus begins to metamorphose.

While in Palestine, Jesus preached among the sinners and outcasts.

Yet Mormon prophet Joseph F. Smith saw Jesus’ recently departed spirit go “not in person among the wicked and the disobedient” but to the righteous, such as Adam, Eve, many of Eve’s faithful daughters (apparently names weren’t provided), Abel, Seth, Noah, Shem, Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Moses, Isaiah, Ezekiel, Daniel, Elias, Malachi, and many more, even the prophets who dwelt among the Nephites. (D&C 138:29, 38-49).

After a visit back to Jerusalem, Jesus became resurrected meaning that his spirit reentered his body. He spent some time teaching his disciples.

III. The Americas

Meanwhile, in the Americas, a different stage has been set. Immediately upon the crucifixion of Jesus, tempests, earthquakes, fires, whirlwinds, and physical upheavals rage for three hours. The Book of Mormon tells:

The city of Zarahemla was set on fire; the city of Moroni sunk into the depths of the sea, and the inhabitants were drowned; the earth was carried up upon the city of Moronihah; and many great and notable cities were sunk, and many were burned, and many were shaken till the buildings thereof had fallen to the earth, and the inhabitants thereof were slain, and the places were left desolate; And there were some cities which remained; but the damage thereof was exceedingly great, and there were many in them who were slain.

The destruction was followed by darkness upon the face of the land and there was great mourning and howling and weeping among all the people.

(3 Nephi 8).

Who caused this massive destruction and death? The survivors would immediately know the culprit in the form a Voice.

The Voice chides America’ inhabitants proclaiming:

“Behold, that great city Zarahemla have I burned with fire, and the inhabitants thereof. And behold, that great city Moroni have I caused to be sunk in the depths of the sea, and the inhabitants thereof to be drowned. And behold, that great city Moronihah have I covered with earth, and the inhabitants thereof, “

“And behold, the city of Gilgal have I caused to be sunk, and the inhabitants thereof to be buried up in the depths of the earth:

And building momentum, the Voice continues:

“Yea, and the city of Onihah and the inhabitants thereof, and the city of Mocum and the inhabitants thereof, and the city of Jerusalem [the America city, not the one in Palestine, he left that one alone] and the inhabitants thereof.”

“And behold, the city of Gadiandi, and the city of Gadiomnah, and the city of Jacob, and the city of Gimgimno, all these have I caused to be sunk, and made hills and valleys in the places thereof; and the inhabitants thereof have I buried up in the depths of the earth.”

“And behold, that great city Jacobugath, which was inhabited by the people of king Jacob, have I caused to be burned with fire.”

“And behold, the city of Laman, and the city of Josh, and the city of Gad, and the city of Kishkumen, have I caused to be burned with fire”

(3 Nephi 9: 2-10)

After itemizing his destructions, the Voice tells the people the name of their Destroyer:

“Behold, I am Jesus Christ the Son of God.”

Yes, that Jesus who only a short time earlier restored a severed ear, forgave the ignorant, the crucifers, and the non-believers - all of whom had witnessed or knew of his miracles while Jesus preached among them for some three years.

Jesus, the man who had spared those in Palestine who had personally rejected him, mocked him and crucified him, tells those in America:


“‘So great faith have I never seen among all the Jews; wherefore I could not show unto them so great miracles, because of their unbelief.’”

(3 Nephi 19:35)

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Posted by: RAG ( )
Date: April 04, 2011 10:58AM

It was a Mormon who first pointed out to me the Jesus in the NT who says, "I come not to bring peace but to bring the sword." (Matthew 10:34)

I note further that Jesus had no qualms about breaking up families:
"If anyone comes to Me, and does not hate his own father and mother and wife and children and brothers and sisters, yes, and even his own life, he cannot be My disciple." (Luke 14:26)

Gentle Jesus? Or cult leader?

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Posted by: Devorah ( )
Date: April 05, 2011 06:39PM

It's just that the biblical Jesus wasn't hung up on "families are forever" and "love bombing" and the "word of wisdom" and stuff like that.
No big deal.

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Posted by: Elizabeth, my temple name ( )
Date: April 04, 2011 11:04AM

Another reason the book of mormon is fiction. Thanks for posting this. I hadn't thought about those stories in relationship to each other like you presented.

I realize the old testament god is entirely opposite of the new testament one, which LDS says is the same person, Christ.

Makes a person question the competency of someone who can change so dramatically from one period of time to another.

Must have been something he saw in the spirit world that got him upset enough to destroy the inhabitants of America. Amazing fiction. And then he turns around and blesses those who are left after the destruction he caused.

No wonder people have trouble understanding Christ in the book of mormon, the old, and new testaments.

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Posted by: WM ( )
Date: April 05, 2011 04:44PM

Elizabeth, my temple name Wrote:

> I realize the old testament god is entirely
> opposite of the new testament one, which LDS says
> is the same person, Christ.

Not so. Altho' God's more serious and permanent judgements are seen more often in the Old Testament, He is just as loving and forgiving of those willing to repent and do what is right as He is in the New Testament. Besides being infinitely loving, He is also perfectly just, and justice requires punishment of the guilty. He is also merciful beyond belief. No sooner had God pronounced judgement on Adam and Eve's sin than He made them a promise that one day He would send a savior to save all men willing to repent and do what is right. Numerous passages in the Old Testament attest to how terrible it will be for those who constantly do what is wrong, but there are also numerous passages that point out His constant eternal mercy and lovingkindness (look at the Psalms) to those who turn from their wicked ways and do what is right [living a righteous life].



> No wonder people have trouble understanding Christ
> in the book of mormon, the old, and new
> testaments.


Actually, the book of Mormon has nothing to do with Christ, except that it is condemned by Him as "doctrines of demons", a clever Satanic counterfeit to the already-proclaimed Gospel given almost 2000 years prior. A counterfeit truth, a counterfeit Gospel.

The reference to Jesus bringing a sword, rather than peace, is a reference to how His message would divide families, since some would embrace Him and some would despise His message and obedience to Him, hence there wouldn't be "peace" in that family, but opposition and confrontation, while there were opposing belif systems.

The verse in Luke where He says no one can come to me without hating everything of this life (family, etc) including his own life is a difficult verse, but the "hatred" that is called for is actually a lesser love. Jesus was calling for His disciples to cultivate such a love for Him, that their attachment to everything else - including their own lives - would seem like hatred in comparison.

This same type of usage is used in Luke 16:13 "No servant can serve two masters; for either he will hate the one and love the other, or else he will be loyal to the one and despised the other. You cannot serve God and mammon [money]."

The LDS is a false belief system, originated by a demonically-inspired 14 year old liar, and has nothing to do with real Christianity, our understanding of which comes from the Bible, which I am convinced is the perfect Word of God, and completely true.

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Posted by: ziller ( )
Date: April 04, 2011 11:48AM

This is a good example of one of the many instances in the BoM where the writer, knowing the story to be false, adds text to “cover his tracks” or offer plausible explanations to future apologists.

Joseph Smith, knowing he was coming to the end of his story, realizes that he only has about 1000 years of “history” left to go.

He has to somehow reconcile these great Hebrew Nephite / Lamanite civilizations and all their cities and people with what was known about the American Indians in the 1830’s.

Enter Jesus Christ stage right –

Jesus conveniently destroys all these cities and people by burning them with fire (what else do you burn things with, BTW?), burying them under water or under the ground.

Then you have millions and millions killed off in continuous wars – making special care to make sure there is not one single white Indian left.

ziller

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Posted by: Thread Killer ( )
Date: April 04, 2011 12:16PM

"Jesus blowed up Zarahemla REAL good!"

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Posted by: Queen of Denial ( )
Date: April 04, 2011 12:32PM


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Posted by: EverAndAnon ( )
Date: April 04, 2011 01:59PM

In the middle east, there was a spring festival that was held every year.

A kingly figure entering into a city on the back of a donkey. He was greeting with a great celebration -- and lot's of spring greenery (he's a symbol of the vernal renewal of life).

After a few days of celibration, he gets arrested, mocked, scourged, and put to death.

Other variations of this story of the sacraficial death of a deity in the spring in order to grant life for the world were at the center of the religions that controlled this part of the world.

The Jews were minor players in this place. They picked up stories that 'every one knows are true' and adapted them to meet their needs.

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Posted by: shadowryder ( )
Date: April 04, 2011 02:00PM

to RAG,
your texts need to be placed in their entire context. Jesus was telling everyone that there would be many people fighting over his authority as the SON of GOD. History reveals it to be true. People have fought over religion since the beginning of man. The second quote simply means you (allof us) should love GOD more than any earthly creature. This message is not inconbsistant with any of the other Biblical messages on the subject. ex- "you shall have no other God before me" and the love of money is the root of all evil, etc. Seek first the kingdom of Heaven!!

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Posted by: RAG ( )
Date: April 04, 2011 02:04PM

...I quoted the scripture. They are not "my texts". With so little provenance and so much credulity, they can be made to say anything. And they are. And such is the history of Christianity.

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Posted by: never-mo 16 ( )
Date: April 05, 2011 03:18PM

I just went and read the full paragraph Luke 14:25-27 - if you read all of it and not just one passage I think that you will see that the concept is that if you wanted to be a disciple you need to understand the cost. He knew they would be persecuted and that it would be a hard road to walk. Those that couldn't totally devote themselves because of their family, fear, or inability to do what needed to be done should not attempt it.

You could still believe and follow his word without actually becoming a disciple...

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Posted by: bona dea ( )
Date: April 09, 2011 05:15PM

never-mo 16 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I just went and read the full paragraph Luke
> 14:25-27 - if you read all of it and not just one
> passage I think that you will see that the concept
> is that if you wanted to be a disciple you need to
> understand the cost. He knew they would be
> persecuted and that it would be a hard road to
> walk. Those that couldn't totally devote
> themselves because of their family, fear, or
> inability to do what needed to be done should not
> attempt it.
>
> You could still believe and follow his word
> without actually becoming a disciple...

Jesus associated with his family and the Book of Acts says that some of the Apostles had wives so I don't think it was meant as literally as Rags thinks.

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Posted by: nebularry ( )
Date: April 04, 2011 03:37PM

Thanks for the fascinating post and thanks, too, to all those who have replied thus far. Good stuff! My only addition is to say that the Biblical Jesus is every bit as fictional as the BoM Jesus. Though I do believe there was a real, historical, flesh-and-blood person who we know as Jesus, that which is written about him in the Bible is mostly myth, legend and flat out fiction. The "real" Jesus is totally lost to history and subsumed by the mythical Christ. Joseph Smith's embellishment on the Biblical character only creates another fictional character. And the fact that there are so many contradictions serves to illustrate what a lousy job Smith did.

In any case, I enjoyed your research. It's a favorite topic of study.

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Posted by: Raptor Jesus ( )
Date: April 04, 2011 08:10PM

Hide your kids. Hide your wife, and hide your husband cuz we beatin every Jesus out here.

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Posted by: snb ( )
Date: April 04, 2011 08:16PM

You just spent a long time arguing about why Santa Claus has brown pants instead of blue pants and why only true believers in Santa Claus believe in the brown pants type.

It is a shame that all of this intellectual energy went into believing in Santa Claus.

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Posted by: MJ ( )
Date: April 05, 2011 04:47PM


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Posted by: Gideon ( )
Date: April 04, 2011 10:51PM

Because iN a recent break-through-science report that said our white or fair skin ancestors were actually mutants of first original humans on earth - and they were all black skin people.

So God and his white and delightsome celestial people are actually mutants .... !

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Posted by: Gwylym ( )
Date: April 05, 2011 03:24PM

Yeshua (Jesus) was a Jewish Rabbi. The New Testament and the Book of Mormon are for the most part Gentile written books that follow in the Book of Revelations mindset of an apocalyptic Jesus. If you look at just the words attributable to Yeshua he was an eschatological Jewish prophet trying to figure out how to make Israel Holy so God's kingdom could come.

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Posted by: voweaver ( )
Date: April 05, 2011 04:16PM

When I read the Book of Mormon, I was astounded at the entire concept of Jesus apparently needing some kind of back-up plan, in case the Palestinian ministry didn't live on. As a Christian, I happen to believe in the existence of Christ and His establishing His Church, which would serve to guide the people until He returns. (my belief, which doesn't need any castigation or enlightenment, TYVM)

But the Mormon Jesus instituting this crazed backup plan, and somehow making a detour on His return to Heaven, to leave behind a Reader's Digest Condensed version of His Palestine ministry "just in case," has always flabbergasted me. Did He actually foresee the Great Apostasy of his Palestinian ministry? If that's the case, why did He even BOTHER with Palestine?

The idea of an omnipotent being having the need to formulate a backup plan is ... preposterous.

The God I believe in is certainly more powerful than that.

My Sister calls the Mormon Jesus who appeared in the New World, "Jesus Junior."

~VOW

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Posted by: JoD3:360 ( )
Date: April 09, 2011 05:04PM


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Posted by: Moroni Marten ( )
Date: April 09, 2011 05:18PM

Personally, I don't believe in any of the Jesuses.

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