...yet pledge in the temple and in Sunday school that they will live the law of consecration when it is revealed that the time is right? They are the same thing!! One of many revelations given to Joseph Smith that "conveniently" reflected current trends of his day.

Well, the law of consecration is "give everything to the cult"... and then you can beg some wheat from your bishop.

Communism has some sort of theory and reasoning behind it, whether you agree or not.

ETB was a nutter. Now he's dead. Hooray!

It's like everything they believe is so hypocritical. It always baffles me. Law of Consecration Good, Communism Bad. Polygamy Good, Gay marriage bad. Diet Coke good, green tea bad. And about 9,000 more examples that I'm too tired to come up with.

Oxymormons

They will say that socialism/communism is Satan's copy of god's plan.

When Kresimir Cosic, BYU's star basketball player in the 70s,
converted to Mormonism, he was a gung-ho missionary for the
Morg. However he was from Yugoslavia (later Croatia) a
communist country.

When an article about him mentioned that he "avowed communism"
it was interseting to hear all the Utah Mormons wiggle on the
word "avow."

I recall reading an article later about the visit of two GA's
to a communist country accompanied by Huntsman (probably flew
there on his jet). The purpose of the visit was to open the
country to missionaries etc. The story mentioned that Huntsman
said that someday he hoped the people of his country would live
no longer live under communism. The two GA's were quick to
point out that this was just Huntsman's position and not the
position of the LDS Church. You don't diss the people you are
trying to get something from.

"We believe in being subject to kings, presidents, rulers,
magistrates, emperors, dictators, juntas, politburos, Reichs
and comissars as long as there's something in it for us."

...Because ETB and his legion of Birchers said so.

Remember they also said that the civil rights movement was a communist plot.

between giving all their stuff to their god appointed leader for re-distribution according to need and

giving to the government to do the same.

Things could get interesting if the communist leader claims to be God.

are they against United Order ?

When Joseph Smith spoke of organizing the United Order, he was speaking as a man.

(Funny how Mormons don't refuse to accept things like free public education, Medicare, and Social Security payments on grounds that they are "Communist.")

Which begs an interesting question... will the church ever be desperate enough to try the law of consecration out again?

How will mormons respond?

To answer a question which has been asked:

My take on this thread is that it is legitimately about Mormonism and Mormon history.

From the beginnings of the church, religion and government were combined into a single cultural whole...

...this was then continued and intensified by Brigham Young...

...and the process has continued to this day in the various branches and governmental jurisdictions of Utah, as well as in other geographical areas which are heavily Mormon (parts of Idaho, etc.), and obviously, into California politics with Prop 8, and national politics with the ERA and same sex marriage in general.

My maternal grandparents had copies of ETB's books about politics (I particularly remember the black man's head and the scythe), which were perceived (I am sure) by LDS members AS LDS (or LDS approved) publications.

I, myself, have wondered about the socialism/communism vis-à-vis Mormonism question (especially in earlier Utah, etc. history) because it seemed obvious to ME that non-Mormon socialism/communism and Mormon socialism/communism were, to my eye, more or less the "same" thing.

So the answer to the question is: I do not see this as a "politics" thread (it is not about political parties, nor is it about specific politicians), but is, rather, a discussion of LDS political science and LDS economic theory.

This is my take.

I am open to other opinions...

Is this a thread about LDS history and culture...or is it a "politics" thread (and, therefore, against the rules)???



Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 04/23/2015 01:26AM by tevai.

Culture question.

Socialism and communism are a direct threat to LDS Inc because of competition.

LDS Inc needs its members to grovel before LDS management regarding any claims, which leads to vulnerable people making commitments they should not while under duress.

Socialism and communism have their flaws, particularly regarding corruption. In the case of LDS Inc, corruption is systematic, unquestionable, and built into the system.

Think of bishop Tony Soprano.

They simply cannot afford to have the competition.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/23/2015 01:30AM by deco.

Bingo, we have a winner. They don't like the competition.

Okay...someone has pointed out that some posts specifically referred to verboten "politics" in one way or another, and I agree with this perception.

I have pulled several posts which, in one way or another, went over the permitted line into actual politics...

...which leaves a somewhat disjointed thread, but at least most of the thread remains.

I'm trying to be fair to everyone, and to not transgress the rules myself, either. :)



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/23/2015 10:01AM by tevai.

J Reuben Clark gave a talk on the United Order in 1942, as he was concerned that communist bishops were preaching that communism was bringing back the UO.

http://scriptures.byu.edu/gettalk.php?ID=43

He says the morgbots were doing it wrong from Missouri onward.

Some of what he says is ridiculous and self-contradicting. I also recognized something I hear a lot from older TBMs: "The fundamental principle of [the United Order] is the private ownership of property."

Interestingly, the "Sacred Treasury" is where profits from IP go. "Another Treasury" is where cash gifts to the cult, profits of the members, and surplus after doling out the original property go.

Reading his description, I'd say that the United Order would be Stan's false counterfeit of communism if Stan was real.

Anyways, morgbots hate communism and love the UO because that's how they've been told to think. I doubt one in a hundred actually knows what Marxism is.

They kind of got sold/brainwashed on the whole anti-socialism of the red scare ages.

They were programmed to believe in the church just like they were programmed to think(very wrongly) that we don't already live in a country that is just like Ayn Rand envisioned.

To the person whose post was first edited, and then deleted because the edit was protested...

Political threads are not allowed on RfM. (See the sticky thread at the top of the forum whose title begins: *****NO POLITICS*****)

Naming political parties in the way that you did in your post is categorized as "politics." I took out the political reference to make your post acceptable according to the rules of RfM, but if this is not acceptable to YOU, then the entire post has to be deleted.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/23/2015 10:31AM by tevai.

That was probably my post that got deleted.
Ya I don't know how to have a conversation about ETB and the 1960's-70's right-wing nut jobs, without bringing up political parties and politics. It's all intertwined.

Similarly, I have wondered about the hypocrisy of Mormons' stand on centralized government.

Ask most any Mormon where they stand on a strong federal government versus states rights, and you will hear a pitch on why the federal government should butt out. (Data points: Cliven Bundy and in this past week, a Idaho House of Representatives committee rejecting a child support treaty)

Yet the LDS church operates with COMPLETE central control. Unlike other churches in which local congregations raise funds and spend them as they see fit (sometimes sending a small amount to a central body), LDS units remit ALL of their money to SLC, have ZERO visibility into how the money is used, and then receive back a pitifully small portion as their budget allocation.

LDS units are completely under the thumb of a central government, yet they have no objection to that. I suppose they would say it's fine because Jesus is in charge.

Here is mormon doctrine on the politics of the millenium after Christ returns:

All current governments will be overthrown, including the democratically (sort of) elected government of the United States and it's constitution (that was written by mormonjesus???) These governments will be replaced by a world-wide dictatorship/theocracy with headquarters in Missouri. CHrist will be the dictator, but the day to day government will be run by mormon bureaucrats.

The United order (aka socialism) will replace any and all other systems.

Socialism (the United order) is only bad when run by evil men, like stalin or Brigham Young.

OK that last part about brigham I through in, that's not actual doctrine. ;-)

Communism, Mormonism etc. are all Utopian ideas which look good on paper but cannot be translated into reality.
The usual end result are wars and oppression.

EU is the latest example.
Every nation working in harmony toward peace and prosperity sounded like a great idea - until the richer nations ( Germany mostly ) started lording over the weaker nations.

So, what you have now is approx. 24% unemployment in all the mediterranean EU nations.

Meanwhile, a shadow government is developing in Brussels which gives (unelected ) bankers an extraordinary amount of power, taking away the member countries' sovereignty.
How long this can continue is anyone's guess.