Question: Do any of you have family, or know of people who have become wealthy from temple/church/mall construction?

Do they try to be discrete about it, like the mob? Nice home, New car every year, vacations several times a year, "time shares" or cabins...? Do they pretend to believe/maintain a recommend...?

Remain anonymous to reply, of course.

I don't think there's as much of this going on as there used to be. I have family that have a construction related business. Most of their business today isn't church related, but the business was built 50 years ago largely on the back of the church. They're close family friends with several "apostles" and they know all of the contractors that do business with the church.

I know that some of the larger Mormon construction businesses in Utah have been handed down to less devout children...founders were suck-ups, built their businesses on the church, got rich, were called as MP's, etc..., kids aren't running the businesses the same way...probably because the church has gotten cheap. I know some of the more devout contractors like to bitch about the church giving jobs to gentile contractors like Big D as well.

I used to work for the company that did a lot of the stone work for the conference center. The owner was a member, but I don't know how far up the social ladder of the church he was. I know the contract was very lucrative, and that they also got other LdS contracts, one of them being the Nigeria temple. It would be unfair of me to speculate to whether it was no-bid or not, since I don't know, but TSCC does use the same contractors for work on their buildings. Sorry, no "smoking gun" here, but it makes sense that they would select contractors from their inner circle to do profitable work for them.

I'm kind of surprised. I thought most countries insisted that building be done by local national companies rather than foreign owned countries.

That way kickbacks and the hiring of relatives who own construction companies is easier for the bureaucrats. Isn't that why the Italy temple construction stopped for awhile, until the Corporation paid out for the extra labor and building permits?

The new temple is in Rome? The price for land would have been astronomical. I'm glad I went to Rome before it was invaded by Utah. =(

When they built a stake center in Lethbridge in the early 70's they used a SLC based contractor that apparently cut a lot of corners in pouring the concrete foundations and floors. Within a couple years the building needed a completed floor replacement at huge cost. Since then almost all the LDS construction projects in S. Alberta have been awarded to a local commercial contractor that does high quality work and is, interestingly owned by a Catholic family. Such delicious irony.

Ron Byrr

Sacred slippers touch the great and abominable floor?!

The Layton family of Layton Construction has made millions off LD$ Incorporated through the construction of McTemples.

They do excellent work, but the Morg made them replace a section that they didn't like, at their own expense, of course.

I used to work for an architect in SLC. We did a lot of church work. At that time, Churchco had a short list of general contractors that they got bids from. The people that run churchco's construction dept aren't stupid and they know the church is cheap. They always bid their work to the shortlisted companies. Most if not all these companies are owned by Mormons.

Actually, short listing to good companies is a good business practice. Over the years, our company has done quite a bit of work for the Mormon Church. We are doing a job for them right now. There are no backroom deals with lavish payouts. If anything, they expect the Mormon companies to give the church a discount because "they're doing the Lord's work" mentality. But, hey, work is work.

One thing is for sure, fiscal malfeasance will get you excommunicated faster than denial of the holy ghost! The church's building department is anal about their contracts and there is always some pious nark waiting to rat you out.

I didn't mean to imply every company is shady; just asking some questions members never seem to ask...

Why the exorbitant cost for some of the projects? Up to four+billion for City Creek? 20 million for San Diego? It would have been cheaper to level the Provo tabernacle and reuse some of the old bricks for the facade...

Many Mormons are living in poverty yet have to pay tithing to attend these buildings. The GAs were proud when S.Americans were pulling gold crowns/teeth from their mouths to pay for temples... It seems the opposite behavior of the new testament Jesus. Utah valley has four temples now, while some people travel to other countries?

I know they use granite and marble... There are substitute similar interior materials now for a fraction of the cost. How much does a bunch of big mirrors with gold spray painted frames cost? Most temple rooms look sparsely furnished from photos I've seen.

The church is shrinking in Europe, so an expensive temple in Rome? For which members, vacationing GA families? Rome is expensive, I've been there. A gelato near St. Peter's square was $9, 15 years ago. Hotels are easily $300-400 a night.

Flame away.

You are confusing elements of the construction process.

The general contractors have nothing to do with the cost or location of land that the church buys, or the cost of exotic materials and finishes the church chooses for it's projects. Yes, marble costs more than ceramic tile, and for various reasons marble can cost more to install, but to use marble rather than the cheaper ceramic tile is not a decision made by the contractor. So stop blaming the contractors for the millions that the church spends to promote a certain image of itself around the world.

The general contractors bid the project using the price quotes from specialized sub-contractors who typically perform the bulk of the work. The general contractor takes on the liability for completing the project, and coordinates the sub-contractors to perform the work. The general contractor then charges the owner a fee for that service.

The profit margin for a general contractor on Mormon church projects are usually much lower than the profit margin on, say, municipal or military government projects. Also, Mormon church projects are only a very small fraction of the overall volume of construction work these larger "Mormon owned" companies perform. They make a lot more money contracting large commercial and industrial projects than they ever made from the Mormon church.

But, again, work is work and we will take work where we can be competitive, and these companies are very competitive!

Red arse much?

I'm not confused; someone in my family was a contractor. I'm glad you can make money from the church. I know they choose the materials... Part of my point was they don't need gold plated items, miles of marble... while members struggle to pay tithing.

I don't understand the logic for an expensive temple in Rome. Competing with the pope? Refurbing the Provo tabernacle? (Why so many temples in UT valley?)

Why, in your opinion, or anyone who has info., why was the SLC mall so costly? The land? Delays? Gold escalators? I've never been there. Was the amount of $ justified? Just curious.

I can't speak as to why the Mormon church chooses to spend money as it does, other than to promote a certain image. The City Creek Center was such a project. The official stated reason for the project was to refurbish the downtown area around temple square.

One reason the project was so expensive is because it was incredibly huge, encompassing two whole city blocks! The church already owned the land and buildings. The demolition of those buildings alone was an enormous undertaking. The project is a mixed-use development so it is much more than just a shopping mall. The development was so expansive they needed several general contractors to carry the bonding and manage the multitude of sub-contractors on different aspects of the construction. The architectural design evolved as the project progressed so it was not a lump sum bid project as most of their construction projects are.

Even though many members and ex-mos disapprove of the church's business and real estate holdings, from a design and construction perspective, the City Creek Center is an impressive development!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/City_Creek_Center

The reason the church did not tear down the Provo Tabernacle is because, if I am not mistaken, it is on the National Registry of Historic Places. It is an architecturally beautiful building that was, unfortunately, completely gutted by a fire a few years ago. I personally love these historic buildings and I was glad to see the Mormon church restore this beautiful, historical landmark.

One thing I recall.......back in the 1970's and 80's, many temples and church or BYU buildings were designed by architects Fetzer & Fetzer, and built by Jacobsen construction. Lots of money, very big business!

TSCC don't need to hide payments to individuals behind no-bid construction contracts. They can pay direct debits into anyone's bank account because they don't have to report it to anyone.

A BIG question is, if TSCC is a fraud, as most people here including myself believe, then who is benefiting from that fraud? Why hasn't anyone exposed the truth?

One possibility is that TSCC isn't siphoning funds off to anyone. The 15 big-wigs probably take home more than they are worth, but that would be millions, not billions. Maybe TSCC is hoarding the billions of dollars of tithing money that isn't needed to run the church, by buying up land and businesses. Without audited financial reports there is no way to know what they are doing with their money.

It seems the only thing that will change some of the secrecy of religion "non-profits" is to change tax law.

Really we have no idea what the church does with its money for sure, though we do know they spend a lot on temples/church construction and upkeep, a lot on investments and not a whole lot on real charity. Personally I doubt the bigwigs siphon much money off because they don't have to. They have unconditional, unquestioned control over every cent the church has with absolutely no one else having any idea how they spend the money. That effectively makes them billionaires regardless of anything else. If they want to own an island, the church just buys the island. Presto, they have unconditional access to an island. Their families for the most part all work for the church, many of their sons will make it to "70" level at least, maybe temple president getting them in on the act. Frankly I would rather unquestioned control over billions (even if its not in my name) than personal access to even 10's of millions. In the end for most people money is actually about power, and they have power few billionaires or elected officials in America enjoy.

You don't know exactly how much money the Church spends but somehow you know that they don't spend much on charity. Number 1, for someone who doesn't know, you sure seem to know. 2. Talk to any senior missionary couple who has spent time on a humanitarian mission, and you'll see the church spends money on charity/humanitarian causes. For example, the church spent over $1.5M in Kurdistan buying tents for refugees there.

Not let the facts in the way of your story.

IIRC, at some point the church did release the amount of money that it has spent on charitable and humanitarian aid, and it came out to less than $10 per member per year. Compare that to tithing receipts. Compare that to the United Methodist Church which gives away 25% of church donations to charitable relief.

How did the Mormon church spend your $10?

Yesiree, go to LDScharities(dot)org to see wonderful stories about Mormons helping the less fortunate. What a marvelous work and a wonder! And then note that the work they do is funded by contributions, which they ask for, rather than from church coffers.

They ask for new money! They don't use the money they already have! Mormons worship money and they do not give church money away like it was charity!!

"Raca!"

yesiree Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> You don't know exactly how much money the Church
> spends but somehow you know that they don't spend
> much on charity. Number 1, for someone who
> doesn't know, you sure seem to know. 2. Talk to
> any senior missionary couple who has spent time on
> a humanitarian mission, and you'll see the church
> spends money on charity/humanitarian causes. For
> example, the church spent over $1.5M in Kurdistan
> buying tents for refugees there.
>
> Not let the facts in the way of your story.

You are a moron apologist coming here to a private board where you’re prohibited by rules. I have reported you.

>You don't know exactly how much money the Church spends but somehow you know that they don't spend much on charity

Well, we actually do know.
According to LD$, Inc., they spent $2.2 billion since 1985.

https://www.ldscharities.org/bc/content/ldscharities/annual-report/2018/LDS_Charities_2018_English.pdf?lang=eng

During that time, their membership went from 6 million to 16 million. So if we give them an average of 11 million over that time frame we find that they spent an average of $66.7 million a year which divided by the average membership of 11 million means they spent an average of $6/member/year.

For yesiree:

https://66.media.tumblr.com/48eec61c9c02e46d4c1c6547cfdfb5f0/tumblr_mwrnyb9TFh1qhhxf6o1_500.gif

(past contractor me) I think a lot of the work has to be done by contractors who are licensed & bonded in each state or locality; they're not that difficult to get, but then someone has to provide housing, meals, etc.

Is everybody replying here in 2019 aware this ‘yesiree’ Moron apologist resurrected this old topic to do as they always do, fling an apologist argument out there? This is the same Sunday trick the moron apologists always do. I doubt they will stick around to read our 2019 replies to this old topic.

Churchco is VERY PICKY about accepting work that's been done, issues change orders liberally.

My father was a General Contractor (he's now dead) and he put in a bid on the San Diego temple. He figured he might have an "in" with the project since he had done lots of work for Bill Lewis, the architect of that temple.

My father put in the absolute lowest bid he could, figuring that since it was the church he should give in more.

He was WAAAY underbid by a construction outfit from Utah. The whole thing seemed suspect. My father just scratched his head and wondered how on earth anyone could build anything for that low of a cost.

It was an insider job. It makes me wonder if that construction company had some GA's on the board of directors...