LINK FROM DESERET NEWS --- 4 police officers heard an adult woman's voice pleading to be helped coming from a partially submerged car -- Only occupants inside were a deceased woman and an unconcious 2 year old .. SPOOKY !!!!

What think you

JB

My first thought when reading about that was: "Why didn't god hear her when she first crashed and send help. Instead, she died and her baby hung upside, inches from drowning, for 18 hours. The miracle testimonies will follow if she was Mormon.

Hoe did the deceased woman drive the car in to the water?

Aye, there's the rub...

Based on the very limited information available, a real cynic would say, and I quote,

"Since her car veered off the road, but went along with only one tire up on the shoulder, it means that while she had time to veer back, she couldn't because the father of her child and his best friend were in the car that was forcing her off the road and into the river, because he wanted her and the baby to die so he wouldn't have to pay any more child support.

"She was familiar with the road and knew she was approaching an unusual condition and her attention to the task of driving would have been heightened. If she were going to run off the road because of a failure to pay attention, it would have been anywhere but at the river crossing."

Only in a theocracy will you find police unafraid of mentioning the supernatural in a written report.

Dateline: The Future!!!

"Once again, if history is any predictor, a few hundred people will gather at the bridge where years ago a mother and daughter crashed at the bridge and went into the water. The mother died, but the baby remained trapped upside down in her car seat for 18 hours, and when rescuers arrived they initially assumed there were no survivors. But four hardened police officers heard an adult voice say, 'help me, help me!' and they found the baby and saved her and she grew up to be the wife of an important LDS church official, even a Stake President!

In the years since, people have come here on the anniversary of that event and many of them have heard the voice!! Many of these people have gone the record to describe what they heard.

Two years ago, this reporter interviewed a young Heber C. Kimball, XIV, who said he heard a woman's voice, speaking out of thin air, ask, 'what time is it?'

Two members of the Alpine Varsity cheerleading squad tearfully reported that they heard an adult voice, speaking in a somber tone, say that Sky View would win the coming Fall's homecoming game.

Cludgie D. McFudge, at that time a well known anti-mormon, claimed five years ago to have heard the voice scream out, 'I am a figment of your imagination!' He was severally shaken and returned to full activity for a year, but then left to sin.

Who knows what will happen this year? But this reporter will be out there on the bridge, listening... Will you?"



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/09/2015 04:19PM by elderolddog.

I assumed the voice they heard was the mother calling for help and by the time they got there she was dead. Never missing a chance to "prove" the church is twoo, they turned it into a mysterious, supernatural voice that couldn't have come from anywhere except the "beyond".

For the record, I enjoy a fantasy that there may be spiritual entertainment after my body is dead. But I don't think this was a story of a voice from beyond.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHA, I LOVE IT.


This whole story just further illustrates how ultra gullible

religious people are. They're believe anything if it furthers

their view of the Supernatural world....

This story just begs for credibility of which it has none.

God I'm glad I'm an atheist.

Four people independentl heard woman's voice and a baby was saved as a result. Unless they decided to lie, this demands an explanation and so far I havent heard one. I dont know what they heard, but it does demand an explanation. Another point is that this has nothing to do with the church being true.

bona dea unregistered Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> this demands an explanation and so far I
> havent heard one. I dont know what they heard, but
> it does demand an explanation.

No, what it "demands" is evidence that it occurred before a reasonable person would accept that it did. Otherwise, it's just another in a gigantic pile of outrageous, unsubstantiated claims.

See, claims aren't "true" unless you can prove they aren't. They're without merit until they can be shown by evidence to be "true." And if you'll read Steve's post below, you'll see there's very good reason to NOT accept it as "true."



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/09/2015 08:31PM by ificouldhietokolob.

Religious Red Flags: "TO ME"-"I FELT"-"I THOUGHT"-"OTHERS HEARD TOO"

All of the following are "proof" of an "afterlife," of "God," of the "supernatural"? Not so fast, folks:

"'II FELT LIKE I COULD HEAR someone telling me, "I need help,' [Officer Bryan] DeWitt told CNN affiliate KSL. 'It was very surreal, something that I felt like I could hear.'" [emphasis added]

"Tyler Beddoes, a third officer at the scene, said the same.

"'Someone said "help me" inside that car,' he said.

("Baby who survived car crash in Utah river is getting better," at: http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&ved=0CB8QqQIwAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.cnn.com%2F2015%2F03%2F09%2Fus%2Futah-baby-alive-submerged-car%2F&ei=xv_9VLqKKYinNoeUgKgH&usg=AFQjCNG89jK6Ix774Fy3muuiECc54LkmeQ&bvm=bv.87611401,d.eXY


"'I remember hearing a voice that didn't sound like a child just say, "Help me," one of the rescuers, Officer Jared Warner, told NBC affiliate KSL. 'TO ME, it was plain as day,' he added." [emphasis added]

("Lily Groesbeck Rescue: Utah Cops Recall Pulling Toddler From Overturned Car in River," at: http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=4&ved=0CCcQFjAD&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.nbcnews.com%2Fnews%2Fus-news%2Futah-rescuers-recall-pulling-toddler-overturned-car-river-n319831&ei=xv_9VLqKKYinNoeUgKgH&usg=AFQjCNGvigvAVw3yJy_pB8ceeb7ilbVdVw&bvm=bv.87611401,d.eXY)


"Four Spanish Fork police officers all said they heard it.

"'We've gotten together and just talkin' about it, and all four of us can swear that we heard somebody inside the car saying, "Help,"' officer Jared Warner recalled Sunday. . . .

"Dewitt was one of the first officers to arrive. The incident was originally reported as a possible abandoned vehicle in the river. But as he got closer, he said he could see the mother inside. Three more officers arrived almost simultaneously at the river.

"'We were down on the car and a distinct voice says, "Help me, help me,"' Dewitt recalled.

"'It wasn't just something that was just in our heads. TO ME it was plain as day cause I remember hearing a voice,' officer Tyler Beddoes said. [emphasis added] 'I think it was Dewitt who said, "We're trying. We're trying our best to get in there."

"'How do you explain that? I don't know,' he said, adding that the voice didn't sound like a child."

("Rescuers recall 'distinct voice' that spurred them to rescue trapped toddler," at; http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&ved=0CCIQqQIwAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ksl.com%2F%3Fnid%3D148%26sid%3D33747089&ei=tw3-VMnEM5PcgwTq4IKQDw&usg=AFQjCNEcswSKOgntjbIRws-eEkC6IBFd8Q&bvm=bv.87611401,d.eXY)


"The officers who rescued a Utah toddler from death’s doorstep in a submerged car on Sunday said their adrenaline-fueled heroics were triggered by a mysterious plea. . . .

"The vehicle crashed into the river around 10:30 p.m., according to a witness who told police he heard the accident. The car was not visible from the roadway, and was not discovered until 14 hours later, when a fisherman spotted it at 12:24 p.m. Saturday and called police.

"That’s when Beddoes and his partners arrived. The witness told them that he could see an arm through the window, and the four men plunged into the freezing rapids to see if they could find any survivors.

"Then, suddenly, they started hearing the distinct sound of a woman’s voice, calling to them to help.

"'We heard a voice saying "help me, WE'RE in here." [emphasis added. [NOTE: Now the voice is claimed to have been speaking for both mother and child, as opposed to just "me".] It was clear as day. We replied back 'hang in there, we're trying what we can.'

"The voice motivated them to push harder because they believed there may be someone inside who was still alive. With their adrenaline pumping they pulled the heavy, water-filled car onto its side and discovered the driver was dead.

"The officers had no explanation for the mysterious voice that appeared to come from inside the car. Beddoes said he said he wouldn’t believe it really happened JAD NOT THE OTHER OFFICERS HEARD IT AS WELL. [emphasis added]

“'I don’t know what I THOUGHT I HEARD,' he said. 'I’m not a typically religious guy. It’s hard to explain--it was definitely something. Where and why it came from, I’m not sure.'"

("'Mysterious voice' led Utah Officers to child who survived for 14 hours in submerged car," at: http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0CB4QFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.nydailynews.com%2Fnews%2Fnational%2Fmysterious-voice-leads-police-baby-car-crash-article-1.2142732&ei=kg7-VLvcDsamggTDooAY&usg=AFQjCNEtOY5a8jodSrBJb8caoz_3eHKSSQ&bvm=bv.87611401,d.eXY)


"As four Utah police officers approached an overturned car discovered below a bridge in an icy river, they heard a woman's voice asking softly for help. . . .

"And that voice? Beddoes said he and the three officers talked later and concurred they all heard the same thing. They can't explain it, but have no doubt they heard it.

"'That's the part that really sends me for a whirl,' Beddoes said. 'I'm not really religious, BUT THAT'S WHAT YOU THINK OF.' [emphasis added] . . .

"Beddoes said the family has thanked him and the other officers for helping to save little Lily. As he recalls the events of those chaotic moments, on a frigid but sunny day, Beddoes still can't believe the girl survived--and still can't make sense of that undeniable voice coming from the car.

"'We all got together and we all heard the same type of thing,' Beddoes said. 'We just can't grasp what we were hearing.'"

("Toddler Improving After 14 Hours in Upside-Down Car in River," at: http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=4&ved=0CCcQFjAD&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.nytimes.com%2Faponline%2F2015%2F03%2F09%2Fus%2Fap-us-car-in-river-infant-found.html&ei=TBD-VLzrNYiUNtPXgfAI&usg=AFQjCNG2EhHZv2Seclmct1X61ugZ54vWaw&bvm=bv.87611401,d.eXY)

**********


Whoa. Take a deep breath.

Did the officers perhaps also "FEEL" they heard someone say, "help me"? Were they subliminally predisposed to "hear" a voice because another said he "FELT" he had heard a voice? Or that, as one of the officers officer stated, "TO ME," [that voice] was as plain as day"? Were the officers affected by what one responding officer said "I THOUGHT I heard"?

"Hear" we go again. A supernatural spin being put on an event that doesn't automatically or necessarily require "GOD" as the explanation.

Critical reaction to the supposedly mystical aspect of the story:

--"I'm skeptical. People claim to see UFOs, be abducted, see heaven when they pass away, see dead relatives etc. People as witnesses often believe they correctly identify suspects in a lineup. I think human minds are really easily swayed into creating memories that may or may not be based on real events. It wouldn't surprise me if someone told her about the event and she reconstructed it in her head, and now believes she vividly remembers it."

--"That's . . . true. Either way, that's all I'm willing to go into on that one. There's not much point to trying to prove a personal story."

("Baby found alive 13 hours after car plunges into a river in Utah")



Edited 12 time(s). Last edit at 03/09/2015 06:25PM by steve benson.

They heard it with their spiritual ears...

Joseph Smith once got a girl pregnant with his spiritual penis, so I know you're telling the truth!!

steve benson Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------


> "'We've gotten together and just talkin' about it,
> and all four of us can swear that we heard
> somebody inside the car saying, "Help,"' officer
> Jared Warner recalled Sunday. . . .

that doesn't sound like "independent" to me. It sounds like
group think.

. . . the insurance claim.

I'm reminded of the time when I was a cop of being involved in an event where I was dispatched on-scene with some other officers. After the incident had been resolved and we were all back at the PD writing our individual reports of the event, the officer who had initially responded to the call (who was seated next to me in the report-writing room) was putting together his own account of what had happened. (I, along with the other involved officers, was writing up my own supplemental report detailing my personal involvement in the event and my observations of what had occurred).

The initial responder asked me, rhetorically, if I had heard him utter certain commands to the subject with whom we had been dealing. He obviously wanted confirmation from me of what he was including in his report. However, because I did not recall him saying what he was putting in his DR (departmental report) as to what he asserted he had said, I would not verify or deny in my supplemental report what he was describing in terms certain details of the event.

It wasn't that my fellow officer was lying; I simply could not confirm what he said he said because I did not hear what he said he said. Simple as that. In other words, I did not think it would be appropriate to engage in confirmation bias.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 03/09/2015 07:53PM by steve benson.

Even if they supernaturally heard the dead woman's voice it doesn't necessarily support the theory of an afterlife. If she was already dead, and up in heaven or some afterlife, why would she then call down for "help" if she was already dead? What's the point?

She might be a ghost, or some kind of remnant of the spirit or energy of the deceased who is trapped in this world due to traumatic experience.

You're probably on the right track.

And whether or not the officers heard a voice, they were going to look in the car and they would have found and saved the baby. Nothing in the situation was altered by them hearing the voice.

Had there been available energy to 'cause' them to hear the voice, since it changed nothing there at that time, wouldn't that energy have been better spent in a text to the mother's mom at the time of the crash?

"Help me" coming either from her daughter's phone or just showing up from no phone, would have spurred the grandma into action.

Just to not misrepresent was was reported:

"It was a positive boost for every one of us because I think it pushed us to go harder a little longer. I don't think that any one of us had intended on flipping a car over that day," Beddoes said. "We know there was some other help there, getting us where we needed to be."

"When the officers flipped the car onto its side, that's when they realized that a child was still inside."

I got the impression that without the voice, they had no intention of flipping the car over, which is then when they found the previously unknown baby. So, there was a reason, and an outcome because of it. Otherwise, they might have waited for equipment to move the car, thinking it was just the deceased driver in it.


Also, they were quoted saying:

"It wasn't just something that was just in our heads. To me it was plain as day cause I remember hearing a voice," officer Tyler Beddoes said. "I think it was Dewitt who said, 'We're trying. We're trying our best to get in there.'


So one cop is hearing an audible voice ... and another cop is answering, trying to calm that same audible voice.


Seems like the mental gymnastics are coming from the people twisting the statements of the cops to try and refute the story by altering the story from what they claim happened. I don't really care if it's true or not, but you can't just make up your own versions of the story to discredit it. That's not helpful.




And if (obviously if) this all really happened. Why would it have any relation to snakes, or ribs, or gods, or heavens? It wouldn't.

Why does this stuff alarm people so much?

Also it couldnt uave been the mother. According to HP she died the night before. I dont know what happened
but we should get the, facts straight ahd be glad the baby survived

Well, the pointless point to be made here is that it was (claimed to be) a female, adult voice heard. That would line up with many other anecdotal stories where others have ‘claimed’ to witness the consciousness of a recently deceased person hang around for a short time after dying. Hospital workers report this, and then the people eventually seem to ‘move on’. NDE stories make ‘claims’ of wandering or flying around the area of death for a period of time. If some remnant of that lady was hanging about, knowing her child was stuck in that car … she probably was trying hard to get the cops to act. Maybe this time it may have worked, maybe it wasn't that child's time to die (thank goodness).

My point is, it lines up well with a multitude of other anecdotal versions of this sort of phenomenon. Particularly with reports of where it happens in a traumatic circumstance. Maybe science should just get off their asses and figure this stuff out. That is if they aren’t too scared. When hundreds of people go into the same woods and report seeing a bear … chances are there might just be a bear up there. Even though I didn’t see a bear when I went up there and looked. It just means I didn’t see a bear, maybe the bear didn't like me.

I will say again, even if some sort of consciousness remnant outside of the body was proven to exist in some fleeting manner, it would still be a long way from proving any one religion or set of supposed explanations true or false. It would just mean we found consciousness existing outside of the body, nothing more. So don’t worry about old Joe smith … it’s pretty obvious he intended to scam people with his mish mash of misunderstood rumors. No need to be afraid.

I still think science will explain all this stuff some day. There are too many reports all through history of the same stuff happening repeatedly, regardless of the religion related to the goegraphical area, for there not to be something going on. We just have to solve the puzzle, unless the puzzle is simply unsolvable through known scientific methods. Until then, who cares ... live and let live. And long live the babies, if that is what is to be.

I meant the live mother couldnt have called out and then died right afterward as someone suggested. Apparently she was killed on impact or died shortly thereafter

This is probably a dumb thing to do on this forum.

However, I will tell you what went down ----- my opinion based on MY personal experiences. Yes, many of you can assume I am crazy for putting the information out to totally non believers, but I only share this anon. ----- I don't share this type of stuff with anyone outside of my close circle of trust that know me (very few if any) unless specifically asked.

The mother probably communicated only because the police were not in a hurry to turn the car as they didn't realize anyone was alive and so her baby would have been in danger for who knows how long ----- other than the mother she knew (benefit of being in spirit with access to the most likely future).

Yes, there is an after life and passed/dead peoples' spirits/energy can talk to us! However, I don't know all the rules they go by. When a non believer and in danger, I was talked to telepathically but it seemed 'clear as any normal conversation between humans' ------ this is what I believe the officers' heard but they did not realize it was telepathic because it sounds so normal.

However, since I became a believer in spirit guides, etc. I have been talked to telepathically but not nearly as clearly as before and sometimes in symbols, sounds, feelings, impressions or pictures. Dreams are a mixture also sometimes pretty direct but other times symbols. Visions when meditating normally are pretty clear ----- I usually don't hear words but see the action and get a feeling of what may have been said. I have asked about why voices were so clear before but not now ------ no response yet.

Don't worry I can't prove anything so I probably will not respond to any critiques!

Spiritist,
You can believe what you like, and as long as you don't demand other people believe it, nobody will bother you about it.

I'll just point out that you weren't there, and have no information about this incident -- so your speculation doesn't have any basis. If speculating like that makes you feel good or something, great -- enjoy. I just hope you can see why there's no reason any of us should give it any merit :)

torturednevermo Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> Seems like the mental gymnastics are coming from
> the people twisting the statements of the cops to
> try and refute the story by altering the story
> from what they claim happened. I don't really care
> if it's true or not, but you can't just make up
> your own versions of the story to discredit it.
> That's not helpful.

Sorry but we CAN make up our own versions. We weren't there.
All we have is a description of events after the fact. My
experience is that VERY OFTEN, descriptions after the fact are
inaccurate and colored by a LOT of things.

What is being reported is amazing. We are totally within
reason to consider possible prosaic explanations as being more
likely than the supernatural one. Of course, nobody can say
they've proven that it was not a supernatural even. However if
someone is presenting this evidence as PROOF of a supernatural
event, it is the duty of ANY seeker of truth to try to find if
there are any possible problems with it.

As an example there was a report a few years ago from C.E.R.N.,
one of the most respected research facilities in the world that
they had measured neutrinos traveling at greater-than-light
speed. This would be a violation of Einstein's theory,
something that is well established. Now there were two
possibilities (1) they had actually observed a violation of
Einstein's theory and had ushered in a new breakthrough in
physics, or (2) they had made a mistake somewhere.

Since breakthroughs of well-established theories are very rare,
and mistakes are much more common, they carefully went over the
experiment with a fine-tooth comb looking for a mistake. They
found it.

Let me propose some possible prosaic explanations:

(1) The policemen colluded together afterward to invent a
supernatural event that they could report because they want to
promote belief in the supernatural.

(2) A woman was a distance away doing something and calling her
husband to come and "help" her.

(3) One of the officers THOUGHT he heard a woman call for help
and mentioned it to the others thus seeding their imaginations.

(4) one of many other unlikely but possible explanations.

Now all of these are unlikely, but prosaic--they don't rely on
supernatural intervention. Thus they all could be considered
MORE likely than the supernatural explanation even though they
are unlikely themselves. This is the problem with reports of
supernatural events. They rely entirely on witness testimony
of someone who was not expecting what happened. It has been
shown in social psychology labs that, under such circumstances,
witnesses are poor reporters of what they experienced.

So unless and until all possible prosaic explanations have been
shown to not be possible (as opposed to just unlikely) it
cannot be stated that a supernatural event has been established
to have happened.

Maybe it was supernatural. But, and this is the important
part, maybe it wasn't

My references to of making things up referred to a few specific claims.

>> Nothing in the situation was altered by them hearing the voice. <<

That was misleading. The news article I quoted showed that they only went into rescue mode because of hearing the cries for help. Without manually turning the car on its side (and only then did they discover the baby) they might have just left it for a tow vehicle, as would be procedure in this sort of event. Obviously the situation as described was altered by hearing the voice (assuming it wasn’t a conspiracy, or some guys having fun at the expense of some ladies death)

And the talk of hearing a voice only in their head? I’ll repeat myself, the cop was pretty explicit that it was an external voice, and also that one of the other cops was responding in sympathy to the same external voice. (Then again, they might have been pulling our legs, having some fun with all this, again, at this poor ladies expense)

Finally, I agree, maybe it wasn’t a paranormal event, but, and this is the important part, maybe it was.

Note that I don’t refer to these events as supernatural, because, if they happen as often as people report, then they would obviously be part of the natural world. So … paranormal … meaning not usual, or outside of the norm … uncommon. It suits these accounts better (of which there are a multitude).

Of course I agree, it could have all been made up. There might not have even been a car in a river. It could have been a mafia hit with paid off cops. Monson could have threatened their lives if they didn’t make up some story (although it’s odd it doesn’t really promote Mormonism, more the NDE, shamanism type of view, but whatever). We weren't there, we'll never know. Really, you could make up an infinite number of explanations.

Anyway, I heard a story, I was intrigued. I made some comments. Do I now get the honor of being burnt on the stake for being a witch? Or how about weighed against a duck?

Did the voice have a Spanish Fark accent or was it Elizibethan?

I love how the gullible will believe whatever supernatural

phenomena you put in front of them, oh say like the earth

is 6 thousand years old and snakes give dietary advice

and a woman was made from adams rib and yet she has a belly

button, and yet..... unfortunately they disregard real

credible scientific proof and will accept hearsay for their

reason to believe in bull shit gobblydeegook. Its entertaining

and mind blowing to say the least. Mental gymnatics at its very

best... Hahahahahahah I love it.

Keep on believing people... keep on believing.

I too have heard voices in Utah. And they said crazy things. But they never said, "Help us."

The simplest explanation is that they are mistaken. They saw the arm of an adult woman, then heard a noise (a baby crying), but having seen the arm, one interpreted it as a weak cry for help. He tells the others what he "felt" he heard, and they interpret it the same way.

Even after they have all felt to interpret the sound in the same way, it doesn't appear to have inspired tremendous confidence in their interpretation because then they infer that there "might/may" be someone alive in there.

Then the story gets retold a couple of times and viola, it's a full fledged miraculous proof of life after death!

And nobody thought to put the 4 policemen in 4 separate rooms a d ask them to independently describe the tone, pitch and exact words they heard BEFORE they had time to come to a post-event concensus? What a shock and what a shame...

First, it should be "claimed to hear." Not heard.
Second -- did they claim that? Where's their statements? From before they found the dead woman?

I have ocean front property for sale, you interested, just browsing?

"'We've gotten together and just talkin' about it, and all four of us can swear that we heard somebody inside the car saying, "Help,"' officer Jared Warner recalled Sunday. . . ."


They got together and talked about it.... so NOW they all swear they heard somebody.

And since the child was the only one alive, it couldn't possibly be that they heard the child's voice, crying?

Nah.

It was the deceased mother.

Sure.