These are the latest reports from mid February.

It was all I could do to views these photos. From BC, all the way to San Diego. Hundreds of sea lions starving on the beaches.
Many other species in die off, as well.

We humans don't deserve this beautiful planet.

http://enenews.com/fox-dozens-dead-sea-lions-litter-la-beaches-families-shocked-many-calls-911-about-dying-animals-bogging-down-system-scientists-year-worst-history-devastating-scene-horrifying-video

It should be about time for the radiation in the ocean from Japan to be reaching the US Coast. That could explain the animals dieing.

The more likely reason will be ignored by most people. There is the possibility Cult Members along the West Coast had the same priesthood lesson that God needed them to use new virgin olive oil should God actually decide to heal someone. So if a million bottles of rancid olive oil was flushed the same Sunday, all those poor sea animals were killed by God's rancid magically inspired virgin olive oil. On the bright side - all that rancid olive oil might have been magically delicious.

The radiation is in Hawaii and on the west coast. Japanese seafood is packed with cesium. The inland passages of BC have suffered serious species decimation and disappearances. Fish stocks all the way to San Diego are in sharp decline. Bird species are not seen migrating, even in Utah, and dead seabirds are washing up on coastal beaches in large numbers. The salmon are disappearing from the Yukon and Tanana rivers. The Oregon fishery is broken, the boats sit idle. And on and on. The sea lion die-off is just a "top of the food chain" visible phenomenon.

I saw less than four sea gulls at a beach

That said, what can one do about it. I say dance in the sand, stand in the wind, watch the waves while one has the chance to stand in the sun at the shore.

Die off is natural, although it could be a natural effect of climate change.
Die off's have happened during
Nature has boom/bust cycles, what else is the cicadas?

The radiation is less that that of a banana.
They can trace it because cesium 157 is not a naturally occurring element.

We need better education, the tobacco tactics and supplement industries have caused a bunch of science paranoid people

Sea lions have been plentiful for the past few years. Marinas up and down the coast have been in a dilemma because so many sea lions have been lolling on docks, buoys and even boats.

I wouldn't consider this a harbinger of doom, death and the destruction of life as we know it...

More like balancing things out, I figure.

>> Marinas up and down the coast have been in a dilemma because so many sea lions have been lolling on docks, buoys and even boats. <<

Ya, that darn wildlife ... bothering all our poor boats. What a nuisance, how dare they loll on our docks. I hope they weren't bothering Steve Jobs 120 million dollar motorboat toy, what a crime that would be.


>> More like balancing things out, I figure. <<

When hundreds and hundreds of thousands of hairless apes start to die off in droves, that will be "more like balancing things out, I figure."

Maybe you could get the ball rolling.

GenY Wrote:
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> Maybe you could get the ball rolling.


No need. Mother natures got it all planned out, evolution is already taking care of things plenty fine. When the ecosystem goes out of whack, rebalancing always occurs. That's what we're seeing. No more ecosystems to sustain human life, no more humans to destroy the ecosystem. Simple as that.

Evolution is a perfect mechanism, and bio-systems 'evolve', just as do individual species. It's all panning out as it should. An out of balance species will always die back once it has eaten and trampled down all the grass it required for grazing. It’s nature’s wonderful way.

Comparing news articles, I like this one. ENE News seems to border on tabloidy. http://phys.org/news/2015-02-sick-sea-lion-pups-california.html Poor pups.

I don't know of any species, other than humans, that has members who are rooting for their own extinction.

It is a weird sort of arrogance to hate yourself and the rest of mankind.

Are those people so intellectually superior to the rest of the unwashed masses that they know so much about how the earth functions that they conclude that humans need to disappear to save the planet?

If humans disappear, hopefully no other species will step up to achieve what humans did. The horror...

Your argument is fallacious. The point was made that man's actions are causing this imbalance, not that man needs to die off. It's a cause-effect situation.

Nuclear waste is deadly to all life. Man has proliferated nuclear waste, by choice. It cannot be controlled, nor contained. It will kill. This is the simple reality of our current situation.

>> It is a weird sort of arrogance to hate yourself and the rest of mankind. <<

It's a weird sort of arrogance to hate some animal for sunning itself on your dock.

And no, I don't hate myself, because I don't destroy nature ... I work to defend it. I don't hate all humans either, or wish for their extinction. Just some of them ... the egocentric, religious minded, god's gift to the planet types. If they got wiped out, I wouldn't bat an eye.

Anyway ... pointless conversation. To each his own.

Ah, yes...my statements are SO hateful and inflammatory.

"Weep for Mother Earth" "Massive die off" -of tens of the herd.

"Hairless apes"

"Steve Jobs and his motorboat"

Not hateful or derogatory in any way, I suppose.

If "Mother Nature" is taking care of herself "plenty fine" maybe the hand-wringing, pearl (faux) clutching crowd could STFU and watch the proceedings...And relish the end of humankind.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 02/28/2015 12:47PM by csuprovograd.

>> watch the proceedings... <<


Ya, that's kind of what I'm doing. And also commenting on it a bit.

Chill, dude. Go shoot some sealions or something to relax.

Not that it matters . . .but, I'm with you, torturednevermo.

The facts are the rain forests are disappearing and the oceans are stripped. This is verifiable. Not up for argument. I worry about the mental state of anyone who thinks that is of no consequence.

I watched parasitic mealy bugs destroy one of the biggest most beautiful flowering bushes I have ever seen. It is dead now. (It wasn't mine to save.) It was such a metaphor for me--no reason to explain.

I worry about the arrogance of a mankind who think their own procreation at alarming rates should trump everything and do not see themselves as parasites who have overpopulated a planet. By definition we are parasites on this planet.

"an organism that lives in or on another organism (its host) and benefits by deriving nutrients at the host's expense."

"Expense" being the key word here. Few humans ever understood the difference between living "in harmony with" versus "at the expense of." We went from survival mode, to "I want it all" mode in a very short time. And nature will take care of it in the end. The earth will be able to rid itself of some of it's pests as you say--unlike the bush I watched die.

To bring it on topic--My family has discussed this, but of course since they are Mormon, they assume it is okay because it's "all Heavenly Father's doing." You can justify anything with that magic phrase.

Big Elohim is in charge, so relax. It'll all be okay.

But it's often not okay for the animals I love.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/28/2015 12:50PM by blueorchid.

I'm on the same page.

One of the most insidious ideas in the history of Humankind is this:

"God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth."

Too many people miss the fact that it is science that allows us to exercise "dominion" over "every living thing." But ashes to ashes, dust to dust, it will be the earth that subdues us in the end.

Human, ashamed

Tortured one- I have never owned a gun and only one time at Scout camp did I shoot a .22 at paper targets, so, your dismissive comment is off the mark in its attempt to stereotype.

I suppose the people who lament the pollution of the oceans and the stripping of the rainforest are actually taking action personally and not just pointing, wailing, and waiting for "Someone" to do something. I suggest first off for those people to put down whatever device they use to access the Internet and destroy it.

Next, they should forgo any and every thing that mankind ever created for survival. Don't even think of using a wheel of any kind. It is a gateway to invention.

I poke at the hand-wringers, because I live in the land of the most vocal doom and gloomers who have buckets of money to spend on extreme comforts yet exhort the lesser humans to quit being so greedy. Sorry, the inconsistency isn't lost on me.

I do what I can. I choose less impactful things in my life, but I don't sacrifice the greatness that man has wrought in order to be less safe, secure or comfortable. And I admit it.

I don't hide behind extreme statements or hurl insults at someone who drives a 15mpg sedan instead of a hybrid high mileage techno-wonder.

graduated one ...

>> I don't hide behind extreme statements or hurl insults at someone who drives a 15mpg sedan instead of a hybrid high mileage techno-wonder. <<

You don’t hurl insults? You’re kidding right?

I simply pointed out a mechanism of nature, regarding how overpopulated species will eventually meet their demise by overburdening their environment, which is a rational observation of nature. You turned it into characterizing me as someone who hated themselves, and humankind, and wished for its extinction. My comment should be construed as a warning; yours was … I don’t know what … an insult?

Dude, smell yourself.

And saying sea lions are dying because there are too many of them, and how it’s good, because they are a nuisance to us anyway? Give me a break, that’s how you started off in this thread.

Did you just come into this thread to be contrary … to show your disdain for people who advocate for the environment?

You're right. I stink.

Thank you.

Aw dude, now I feel bad. Seriously, you were supposed to hit me back.

You don't stink. We all stink. But we could take a shower. That's what I see as the problem. We are the one animal with the awareness and capacity to do something about all this, and we don't. We just sit on our hands arguing about it, or being more interested in glory and profits than caring about where we live. No one person can do anything about this, but collectively as a species we likely could. But we don't seem to be choosing that. Worse yet, some people advocate that it's some sort of conspiracy, or lie, and that is really a problem.

It seems to me you aren't trying to deny the existence of environmental issues, so I apologize if I came on strong. Similar to you describing an attitude where you live, I too form an influenced opinion; for me it comes from living amidst some pretty extreme rednecks, and I see some pretty extreme ‘anti’ attitudes towards environmental advocates where I live.

So, I'm sorry we scrapped over it. Sorry I pulled out my stick. I apologize.


And regarding some of the comments below I see as I go to post this. Of course the sea lions are collapsing because of some 'factor' in the environment. The point is, where do all these factors point? Usually to the same place, mankinds ways. Starfish collapse, shellfish collapse, hundreds of thousands of birds washing up dead along the western coast. Of course there are always chains of events involved (like starvation). The point is, who is the one holding the end of the chain ... usually mankind. Time to clean up our act. Extinction isn't a desire, it's a warning ... to wake up and change our consumeristic and industrial ways. There are always ways, but not when profit is the only motivator. Profit is always a race to the bottom, almost every time. That's one thing that we could change if we wanted to. Will we ever?

Anyway, I'v beaten my opinion on this to death. Again, sorry if I offended anyone.

The possibility of too many sea lions for the food supply is a reasonable assumption one can make for the die off of sea lions on the west coast. I read the link and this is a topic of discussion by the experts. There has been a decline in the populations of sardines and crayfish which are a major food source for the sea lions. Food decrease causes sealion decrease. This is a natural occurrence. Whether mankind has a part is, at this time, unknown.

I didn't read the link but I heard on the local news (Bay Area denizen) report that scientists suspect that mother sea lions are abandoning their pups because of the lack of food. They say a warmer than usual Pacific this time of year is likely the cause.

Shummy, unashamed.

Rising awareness is a tide to lift all boats as it lifts my spirits.

Love seeing those of you who get 'it', if you get my drift.

The earth is our mother and not in some woo woo sense but truly; we all fruit of her womb.

Breaking wind in her face ain't polite nor prudent.

Apparently, some like to 'debate' for fun.

My initial post was to respond to the near hysterical article that tried to make the death of a few members of a presently overpopulated species as the belweather of the destruction of the planet.

I won't argue that humans are making a huge impact on the planet in a not positive way. I will, however maintain my belief that this planet will turn and continue on it's course well after the human race does not populate it. Does it do any good whatsoever to criticize ourselves if in fact the critic is as guilty as the accused? Nope. Will the people currently living on this earth be able to alter the course of the ecology of this planet through conservation efforts? Doubtful. Would it be more practical to continue progressing in increasing the quality of life on this earth for as many humans as possible? Yep. Would it make sense to consider the need to adapt to the changes that are occurring on the earth? I think so. Adaptation is survival. Going in reverse is just that, and the best that comes of that is covering old ground again thus beating the dead horse again to no avail or improvement.

Rather than use words (which seem to be plentiful in the digital age) to make humanity ashamed of itself and guilt ridden to the point of self loathing, wouldn't it be more practical to consider what to do to make the world of the future more livable as it gets warmer and the oceans rise?

It is agreeable to everyone that nature has it's ways of self-preservation. My opinion is the eventual catastrophic demise of humanity will be for lack of fresh water. If this is natures's way to thin out or eliminate the human race, we can accept our fate and party on until the last man standing shuts off the lights. Or, we can figure out ways to extend our occupation of this earth by adapting and working with nature in the best possible way for our quality of life and hopefully extension of the presence of humanity on earth.

Just an old man rambling. YMMV.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/28/2015 04:55PM by csuprovograd.

>> Apparently, some like to 'debate' for fun. <<

Wow, you do like to take shots at people don’t you? I was serious about my views, don't misconstrue that. And note, too, that I apologized for any hard feelings. Something you didn’t do, even though you were the one who started throwing the personal pokes around. Anyway, I’m a big boy; I don’t really even care about that.

And I do think that companies who, for example, dump toxins, such as our own companies continue to do in other countries, when not operating here in our own backyard, should be shamed. They ought to feel horrified by their completely avoidable actions. But they maintain these practices because they are cheaper. That is a choice. Not an unavoidable necessity for the species survival. That type of behavior could be changed, yet it doesn't. It's our attitudes and priorities that I would change. Lobbying against positive changes could also be curbed. However, I won't hold my breath for that either.

I know several people personally who’ve had patents bought from them by players, patents that would increase efficiency, or provide alternatives, only to have them locked in safes to never see the light of day, because someone might have lost a profit. To think we are operating in the best way we can concieve, and all this is unavoidable, is an odd mindset to me. Thinking that way just allows for the status quo. It's like saying nothing can be done, so we might as well make the best of it. Lot's can be done if we don't go into denial about it because we don't want to feel bad.

Change these attitudes, and you could change a lot. They are the attitudes behind many of the bad practices that, in turn, cause the harm. It's not like this is the only way to exist as a species. It's just the way we choose, the way some choose. I sometimes wonder if they are aware of the consequences. So I, for one, will keep advocating for change and awareness.

Maintaining the status quo and ignoring the problem isn't advancement. And science won't get us out of this, it's social change that will get us out of our current patterns of thinking. Overexuberance towards science might even be what's got us to this moment. GMO's and lateral drilling and yada, yada, yada. Science won't change social attitudes, social attitudes will change social attitudes.

Anyway, again ... I wasn't just arguing for the fun of it. What a waste of my time that would be.

Have a great day!

The land/sea only has so much carrying capacity. Just an educated guess. The sea lion only has so many predators namely sharks. Otherwise they are the top of their food chain respectively. There could be a simple explanation to this equation. Because of the lack of predation the population has probably boomed for many years.

For the first time in a very long time, the US is population negative. People are naturally having less children due to the economic situation we have been in. This could be argued as a type of carrying capacity as well. The fact remains that we do NOT have enough data to conclude that we are the cause of any environmental changes. 100+ years of data in a world that is billions of years old is not enough.

Just my two cents... take it for what it's worth

toad Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The land/sea only has so much carrying capacity.
> Just an educated guess. The sea lion only has so
> many predators namely sharks. Otherwise they are
> the top of their food chain respectively. There
> could be a simple explanation to this equation.
> Because of the lack of predation the population
> has probably boomed for many years.

"probably"? "guess"?

Fact, the population of great white sharks on the west coast has been rising for decades, and their range has expanded. I assure you, they are efficient predators. If the sea lions starve to death, the sharks will then suffer as well.

Bad things happen to the Earth's ecosystem when humans are dumping 1200 tons of CO2 per SECOND into the atmosphere. The Earth as we know it is doomed.

http://www.sfgate.com/news/science/article/The-big-melt-Antarctica-s-retreating-ice-may-6104806.php#photo-7583211

It also doesn't help there's islands of garbage floating around the ocean.

Itzpapalotl Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> It also doesn't help there's islands of garbage
> floating around the ocean.

Yep:

http://exmormon.org/phorum/read.php?2,362606,383570#msg-383570

Yes "probably" and "guess" I'm not an expert.

If shark population had increased then that supports the carrying capacity theory. More sea lions = more food for the sharks. More food = more sharks surviving and reproducing.

Again, we don't have enough data to understand the bigger picture.

Does mankind have some tangible effects on the environment? Yes. Are we the cause of the downfall of every species? Hardly not.

toad Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Yes "probably" and "guess" I'm not an expert.
>
> If shark population had increased then that
> supports the carrying capacity theory. More sea
> lions = more food for the sharks. More food = more
> sharks surviving and reproducing.

Yes true. But this thread concerns the rather sudden downturn in many important species of sea life on the west coast. That's the point. Carrying capacity is not being argued, that point is understood and well-taken. But the sea lions are not dying because their population has outpaced their normal food supply. The point is, their food supply is suddenly under extreme pressure.

If all the sea life suddenly dies off, then there is no carrying capacity for any species.

SO sorry to hear about the sea lions! How sad. They are lovely creatures.

No tears by me. Standard stuff. Mother Earth taking out the garbage. 1000s of years the same motive. Nothing has changed.