You might think he's a nice guy. You might have residual admiration for his church authority. You might be worried about what people will think.

BUT you don't need to show any deference to the priesthood guys who want to control you. If you do what they say, it's your choice, not because they have legitimate power over you, like a boss at work or a law enforcement official.

These priesthood guys have no special training and no special insight. Perhaps it's their income? Do they make more money than others? Is that why so many quake in their presence? I've never been very impressed by that.

Every adult has a right to make their own decisions in life. They also have a right to decide if they want to go to church. They can determine who will be allowed on their property and who they will shake hands with.

Once a person has told the morg not to make contact, every official Mormon at their door is a trespasser.

Nothing wrong with saying, "I've told the church not to make official visits here. I won't be talking to you or inviting you inside. Goodbye."

If someone shows up to confirm you are who you claim to be, it's an intimidation tactic. If they want your TR, they're as much as committing theft of personal property. They can ask for church owned keys or lesson books, but they shouldn't demand anything you personally earned or anything that you own.

They don't have a right to threaten you with eternal or mortal consequences. You're not a child and you have a right to your privacy and your personal choices. The morg is not in charge of you. YOU are in charge.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/26/2015 08:35AM by Cheryl.

My first response to this declaration is "duh, who needs to be told this"

and then I remember there was a time I needed to be told this LOL

>Once a person has told the morg not to make contact,
>every official Mormon at their door is a trespasser.


Maybe not a "trespasser," just an uninvited guest and just a person so you can tell them what you think if you like

Cheryl,

People are often looking for someone to tell them what to do. It relieves them of the responsibility to choose the answers for themselves.

That being said, you are right, there is only authority if you allow them to have it. When I first left the church's activity, my motto was: They only have as much power as you give them.

What is unfortunate, is the power the group retains in insidious ways when you live in heavily Mormon areas. This also is seen in other areas that are dominated by other faiths. It must just be part of the human condition.

No one wants to antagonize most of their neighbors.

Good reminder. For me, your statement that "You might be worried about what people will think" is right on the money. As a result of the social engineering that mormonism imposes upon its people, if you see someone refuse, it is automatically the adversary at work on a weak and sinful person. That means that if you say no, everyone will assume you have a horrible secret.

A major part of the mormon psyche comes from being told and told again that when you are told anything by a mormon leader, you are being told by God. When you are in an interview with a mormon leader, you should answer as if you were being interviewed by Jesus himself. Everything the mormon leader does is by direct revelation, and if it seems uncomfortable, you need to consider where you need improvement.

Of course, anyone who has spent any amount of time as a mormon leader knows full well that this is not true. Egotistical types love this feeling of power. Even non-egotisticals find a certain satisfaction in seeing people accept and conform simply because they think they want to.

It's hard to let go of that mindset and that fear of offending God when you feel like saying 'no' to the mormon leader.

One thing I might add is that if you are to be confronted by a mormon leader, do not do it in its office. Make the leader talk to you in the open like on your lawn where everyone can see. That strips them almost immediately of their status and powers.

Good advice Cheryl.

But in my case, I'd have less trouble telling him I had to leave than in sending him out of my yard or living room.

But anyone with an unwanted visitor on their property can say, "I'll have to ask you to leave now. I have a million things to do." Then stand up and walk to the door or if the person is on the porch, say goodbye and close the door.

Agreed. It can be easier to just up and leave if you feel like you can. Sitting behind a desk, the mormon leader has the whole authority persona going and the intimidation is effective. For the longest time, I allowed myself to be invited into the office for yet another testimony probe. At least, as long as we still attended.

Once we stopped attending and refuased to enter their building, the mormon leaders would show up on the doorstep. If we answered the door it was to step outside and they would have to talk to us on the sidewalk where all the nevermo's could see and hear. One neighbor stopped one day after such a visit and said those guys are real dicks aren't they? That's when you can feel really good about telling people about the mormons.

It's hard to dismiss authorities no matter where you are, but once they see you aren't impressed, their bluster usually fails.

I am always surprised by the things TBMs will run to their bishop over......decisions that any normal adult would make for themselves.

Bishops, stake presidents, GAs, etc only have the power you give them. They are untrained and unprofessional, don't give them power over your life!

Regarding why people in the ward came to see him, a friend of mine who served as a bishop told me that if it weren't for sex and money, he would be as lonely as the Maytag repairman.

So true, those men only have whatever power TBM's give them. I drove the point home when I resigned by addressing someone who claimed to be the bishop with "Mr." instead as it was showing that he had no power over me as I was no longer a member from the moment I mailed my resignation letter. I had never actually attended the ward they said I was living in, so I obviously didn't know that person.

So true.

TBMs like to say exmos leave because they're lazy. Actually its the other way around. TBMs are lazy and want someone else to make their life decisions for them.

Cheryl Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> You might think he's a nice guy. You might have
> residual admiration for his church authority. You
> might be worried about what people will think.
>
> BUT you don't need to show any deference to the
> priesthood guys who want to control you. If you
> do what they say, it's your choice, not because
> they have legitimate power over you, like a boss
> at work or a law enforcement official.
>
> These priesthood guys have no special training and
> no special insight. Perhaps it's their income?
> Do they make more money than others? Is that why
> so many quake in their presence? I've never been
> very impressed by that.
>
> Every adult has a right to make their own
> decisions in life. They also have a right to
> decide if they want to go to church. They can
> determine who will be allowed on their property
> and who they will shake hands with.
>
> Once a person has told the morg not to make
> contact, every official Mormon at their door is a
> trespasser.
>
> Nothing wrong with saying, "I've told the church
> not to make official visits here. I won't be
> talking to you or inviting you inside. Goodbye."
>
> If someone shows up to confirm you are who you
> claim to be, it's an intimidation tactic. If they
> want your TR, they're as much as committing theft
> of personal property. They can ask for church
> owned keys or lesson books, but they shouldn't
> demand anything you personally earned or anything
> that you own.
>
> They don't have a right to threaten you with
> eternal or mortal consequences. You're not a
> child and you have a right to your privacy and
> your personal choices. The morg is not in charge
> of you. YOU are in charge.

Excluding the ability to use violence the only power that another human being has over you is that which you allow them!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/26/2015 02:24PM by thedesertrat1.

Good post Cheryl. I’ll add that the same thing applies to shunning from large groups of people, like say a community where you’re surrounded by narcissistic Mormons. People who think they can control you through group pressure tactics. Just ignore the pressure, and let it roll right off your back. Show them they have no power over you with their crazy antics by not giving them the reactions they seek.

I’m not talking about areas where your employment is threatened, or you’re denied a professional service; that’s a different story, a more complicated one for sure. But, as far as group shunning and mistreatment go, these social antics really don’t hold any power over you unless you allow it to. I’ve learned this from living around my insane Mormon neighbors (I've told many parts of my ‘neighbors’ story elsewhere on this board.)

Really, in the end, in the very long run, victory has been ours, because the neighborhood became ever more stressed out by being shown how their actions were having absolutely no effect on us whatsoever. This really seemed to drive them crazy; that we wouldn’t submit to their ‘pressure tactics’ and shunning. Privately, sure, it hurt a little emotionally to watch a few families turn the whole neighborhood against us through slanderous lies and subterfuge. But, in the end, they weren’t able to actually do anything to us beyond hurting our pride a little, and we never gave them the satisfaction of showing them that.

Beyond having to wash a few eggs off our cars, and replacing a few roses that got acid poured onto them, they really never succeeded in accomplishing much. (Oh, and smashing a light off the house I installed to try and discourage them.) Their thoughts that we would be arrested for the crimes they slanderously accused us of, or that some other neighbor would beat us up after hearing all their made up stories, have never actually come to pass. I’ve shown them to be quite impotent. That sure must hurt their pride and sense of superiority. I sometimes hope it even causes them to question if their god really is even on their side.

Anyway, the point is; if you don’t let it affect you, and don’t give them the satisfaction of a reaction, then you can show people like this that they really have no power over you. And I’ve gotten the impression from watching their childish reactions lately that narcissists really seem to hate being shown to be powerless. Good, smell yourselves … pompous asses! Would I like nice neighbors? Sure. But do I have nice neighbors? Nope. But, in the larger scheme of things, it really doesn’t matter unless I choose to let it matter. It’s my choice how it affects me. I think this sort of ties in with the points you made too Cheryl.

I needed to constantly remind myself of this, when we were leaving the cult, and the Mormon priesthood leaders harassed us all the time. In the end, I told the various priesthood men, face-to-face, on several of their confrontations, "You have no "authority" from God. You can't speak for God. You can't tell God what to do. You have no authority over me. You have no authority over my family." They also have no authority to be on my property.

This shouldn't have antagonized my neighborhood, because no one should have known about it--oh, that's right. They have that strengthening the members committee, or whatever it's called, and Mormons are encouraged to gossip about us. Anyway, I play a strictly defensive game, which shouldn't offend anyone.

Even now, with the Mormon neighbors (very similar to Torturednevermo's neighbors), I must remind myself that they have no power over me. They are not better than I am. I own my own house, free and clear. This is my neighborhood, too.

I never show my feelings, either, even though I cried a lot, at first. You can't show weakness around Mormons. They will appear sympathetic, but they will use it against you. For example, when I was terribly sick for a long time, and had to take a leave from work and from my church callings, the home teachers, the bishop, and even the stake presidency came over to my house--not to visit a lonely sick woman, not to give a blessing, not to offer comfort or help, not to bring dinner--but to threaten me that if I didn't return to church and pay thinking again and fulfill my callings again, I would get sicker! Sickness was my achilles heel.