This is just a rant about how much I hate the state I live in. People in Utah suck. I can't stand the the fake feeling. I can't stand the liquor laws. I can't stand shit being closed on Sunday. I can't stand pretending to be a totally different person at work for nine hours a day just to avoid making waves. I need to move. Bad. End rant. Anyone here actually like living in Utah?

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=z3oc0nBpJa0

This always makes me laugh. So give it a watch.

I like Utah because it's my home. After spending 14 years of my life in Seattle,Beijing and Denver I choose to come "home" and i did it on my own terms. I don't blame anyone for not liking it. Like the saying goes "life (in utah) is 10% what happens to you and 90% how you deal with it(life in utah)" so grab Utah by the horns and make it your b*tch!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/16/2015 05:08PM by lush.

That's hillarious. That's why I love living on the other side of the country. I can VISIT Utah. But I visit on my terms and my trip can stop precisely when I want it to. I feel for the OP. I was the same way after living there for so many years. I hated hated hated it as far as the people (in general.There are some wonderful people interspersed with the sheeple), the suffocating mormon tyranny, the smog. But you know God has a sense of humor when she put some of the most beautiful places on earth smack dab in the middle of weirdsville.

So funny! I think I've seen this before. I love all things The Onion.

Eight years ago we were living in Utah. Our oldest child was 2 and we were being completely shunned by the neighbors. They all planned a trunk or treat at the end of our street, in the field two houses down from us. No one told us or invited us. We had purchased several bags of candy because the previous year we had run out. We didn't get one trick or treater. Not one porch light was on in the neighborhood and we had to leave the neighborhood to let our daughter trick or treat.

That was the last straw. We left Utah a couple months later. We moved to Texas with no jobs, no friends and neither of us had even been here. It was the best decision we ever made and we've never regretted it for one second.

I know there are non-Mormons and ex-Mormons who love Utah and can thrive there. I'm not one of them. The thought of going back, even for a visit makes me sick to my stomach. I know we'll have to take our kids to visit sometime and see all the beautiful sites, but I dread it. Living in Utah made me bitter and angry a lot of the time. We heard "If you don't like it-- LEAVE" many, many times. I'm so glad we did. Life is too short to live somewhere that makes you miserable.

I never understand how never mo's live in Utah but I have know a surprising number who really love it anyway. I find that since I understand Mormons so well it helps me deal with them. I can pretend to be mormon any time I need to and can fit in when called for with no effort. I can put on a show and don't end up with people trying to be my friend to convert me and so forth. But I think I had never been a Mormon I couldn't take living here nearly so well.

Having said that I really dislike Texas, and could never live there but tons of people love it. A lot of how we respond to a community certainly has to do with our own internal needs and what we do and don't find important to our lifestyle.

I'm glad you made that decision and it turned out well for you. I'm hoping to make my way out as well. I'm afraid I fall into the same category as you. I just want to get out.

I am fortunate in that most of my coworkers, customers and boss are out of state and spread all over the country. If I had to work with co-workers locally who were super religious and felt I couldn't respond to their bullsh1t I would go mad too. I dont work out of an office so I don't have to have deal with people face to fact in "water cooler" conversations. If I did I figure as an atheist there are lots of parts of this country where I would have to bite my tongue so I am not sure that's super unique to Utah. I lived in the south for a while and the bible nuts talked Jesus a whole lot of the time.

I don't find that much stuff to be closed on Sunday, rarely is that an issue to me. I enjoy that the roads are less busy, the stores are less busy and the entertainment venues tend to be less busy on Sunday.

I know Utah isn't the only place with more draconian liquor laws but I am with you in hating them. Its so juvenile for the Mormons to try and control others that way, I wish they would grow the fuck up.

As for the fake friendliness and the always putting on a false front plastic type people that pervade the area - well, I am not really a people person so I just stay the hell away from them. I have a small group of friends who are almost all ex-mo that keeps life fun.

I was raised near NYC, and spent half of my adult life in Utah and half in the Great Plains. So I have had plenty of exposure to the outside world, from Cousin Brucie to Lake Wobegon.

Utah is at or near some of the most spectacular geology on the planet. It has a lot of high tech companies. My social circle here is almost totally nonMo. Even when I worked at heavily Mo companies, nobody had a cow if I brought back a coffee after a break.

All that and seeing polygs shopping at Costco on Sundays. What's not to like?

... to a place I thought would be a downgrade (Ohio)

It was the best thing I could have done for me and my family.

Utah looks worse and worse with every return visit I make.

Taking groups of Ohioans backpacking in Utah is one thing I do still enjoy to this day. But the valleys and the people -- blah, I'm done with that.

I lived in Ohio for 15 years. For me, it was hell on earth. However, I didn't come from Utah, I came from Oregon. I would view Ohio as an upgrade from Utah.

I'm back in the PNW and wild horses couldn't drag me to Ohio or Utah. Not even for a visit.

And a great big world. There are many places that have what Utah has but with a lot less mormons, depression, drug use, discrimination, and golly gee girls can go to prom with bare - GASP - shoulders. Where your kids will not be ostracized or sucked in to fit in. Lots of great school districts out there too.

Give this place a shot. Take the quiz a few times stressing different things. Pick a few areas and start browsing housing and local events. http://www.findyourspot.com/

...but when I got to the end and they wanted my personal info, I didn't want to give them that to learn my supposed ideal location. Of course, I'm already pretty satisfied with where I live anyway.

I'd like to know how you answered the questions about the heat and humidity.

Susan, I will try this out. I am trying to find a job that will get me out of here. I work for a small mo company (I am the only person who isn't a card carrying mormon) so there isn't any possibility of relocating without changing jobs.

Change it up about the weather or other things you can live with a variance of. Weeder's recommendation of Ohio MAY work for you. I have a relative that moved to the Mid West and they love it. I was worried because none of them had ever lived outside of So Cal. Hit the job sites for those areas on your short list. I enjoy looking at housing and learning about different areas. It is one of the things I do while I watch the board :). If you pay attention you can learn quite a bit about an area by looking at housing listings. Think about what YOU like to do in your off time. What do you want to do long term work wise? Lots of things to think about but it is fun.

Life is too short to spend it on eggshells.

I met quite a few California transplants when I lived in Ohio. They thought Ohio was great. That doesn't speak well for California IMO.

Surprisingly, I enjoy Utah more as an exmo than I did as a TBM.

There are plenty of outdoor activities within a short drive, house prices are reasonable, and unemployment is low. Also, stores and restaurants are rarely crowded on Sundays. Don't forget, there are more exmos here than anywhere else on earth! My wife and I now have REAL friends, opposed to the fake, gossipy, plastic "friends" assigned by the cult.

Yes, there's a lot of arrogant TBM dumbasses everywhere, but you just have to learn to laugh at their high school mentality and make some real friends. It also helps trying to ignore the stupid legislature by smuggling liquor and real beer in from out of state.

Utah is great, lowest unemployment in the US. So many hospitality customer service jobs they can't be filled. So if your into minimum wage. Mormon Utah is the place to be!!

Oh and we luuuuvv our kids so dang much! Such a great place to raise a family... Dead last per pupil spending for k-12. But the legislature somehow finds millions and billions for higher ed research facilities (U and USU). Don't ask me how this helps anybody?

Let Idaho do the research and Utah can spend it's money on something fun or important.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/16/2015 06:16PM by poopstone.

Utah, where you can be lied to by everyone in your neighborhood (ward). More real psychos per sq ft than SoCal!

I lived in Utah for over 20 years as a no-mo. It was not easy at times. However I did enjoy the outdoors and fishing, hunting. Spent a lot of time in very remote areas and had good friends, Mormon and non Mormon. However I decided to leave and relocate for my retirement. I am glad I did. I didn't realize the difference and social structure of Utah. Still go back once in a while and visit. Enjoy where I live now and life is good,,

I want to leave but I feel stuck here. I have a stable job and my kids are close (relatively). I don't hate it but then again I've never lived anywhere else except my mission (New Jersey).

I love living in Utah. I could move to Massachussetts, California, or Washington if I want to, and it has been tempting at times. But I stay here, even though I have no immediate family (except my wife) or children tying me down.

From your post, "People in Utah suck. I can't stand the the fake feeling. I can't stand the liquor laws. I can't stand shit being closed on Sunday. I can't stand pretending to be a totally different person at work for nine hours a day just to avoid making waves."

People think Utah's laws are bad -- and I happen to agree -- but they're much worse elsewhere. Vermont and Maryland -- not exactly theocracies -- use the same ABC system. Pennsylvania has ridiculous distributorship laws, which makes soft alcohol (like beer and wine) even harder to get than it is in Utah. Some counties in states like Texas and Kentucky are still 'dry' counties -- as in, no alcohol sold within county borders, period, full stop. Yes, in California or Arizona you can get wine and booze at a supermarket. But 19 states use state-run stores, so Utah is by no means exceptional in its badness.

As far as stuff being closed on Sundays... dunno what you're talking about. I can go to Smith's on Sunday morning, buy my beer and bacon and whatever else I need, then meander over to Texas Roadhouse or Market Street or Outback and get lunch. Lots of places are closed on Sundays, sure, but that's the same in a lot of places.

For this: "People in Utah suck. I can't stand the the fake feeling."

Maybe you should acknowledge that their feelings are legitimate? And maybe you should stop casting aspersions at a whole state? People that disagree with you do not automatically 'suck.' It may feel fake to you for a whole swath of reasons, but putting it that way is just as bad as the Mormons that say 'So-and-so knows the church is true deep down.'

If you're pretending to be a different person 9 hours every day at the office, I'd suggest you stop. I also hope you catch the hypocrisy in complaining about 'fake feelings' and then complaining about how you have to fake your own way through your business day. I've worked in Utah for 14 years now, and I've never felt inclined to pretend to be anything other than I am, whether that was TBM (for some of it) or ex-Mormon (for the rest). I have no family or powerful friends backstopping me, and I do better than just fine.

As far as the rest of it -- Utah has low cost of living, relatively low unemployment, inexpensive housing, low crime, relatively decent-wage jobs. I can go backpacking in the wilderness without having to fill out 3 permits (looking at you, California). I can purchase a gun and take it home the same day.

I know plenty of non-Mo's and ex-Mo's that thrive out here. A lot of the whining I see on this board amounts to confirmation bias -- somebody doesn't like Mormons and Utah is a state with a lot of them, so ergo, Utah must be bad. It's a simplistic and un-nuanced way of thinking that does nobody any favors. Many of the ex-Mo's like this struggle to make non-Mo (or even ex-Mo) friends, because the non-Mo and ex-Mo's that like living hire weary of the people that still view their experience through an LDS-colored lens, and don't really want to listen to somebody else hate on a state they like.

Alpiner Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> As far as the rest of it -- Utah has low cost of
> living, relatively low unemployment, inexpensive
> housing, low crime, relatively decent-wage jobs. I
> can go backpacking in the wilderness without
> having to fill out 3 permits (looking at you,
> California).


It also has essentially a theocratic legislature, among the highest levels of porn abuse, depression, prescription drug abuse, and business fraud in the country...

I don't have to fill out 3 permits to go backpacking in the wilderness, by the way (live in California).

> I can purchase a gun and take it home
> the same day.

Yet another reason to avoid Utah :)

I don't get how people arrive at there being a 'theocratic legislature' in Utah. Sure, you end up with strict liquor laws and in some places business hours laws as a result of the Mormon legislature. That's it, though. There is nothing codified in state law that gives preference to anyone of any religious stripe. Gay marriage is legal here, for crying out loud. To see what issues were proposed during the last legislative session, you can look here:
http://le.utah.gov/asp/billsintro/SubResults.asp?Listbox4=ALL

There was one bill sponsored on abortion (Informed Consent-related), and one on pornography (dealing with exposing children to it). Nothing at all related to religion. The notion that Utah's legislature is theocratic is a trope that continues to get play, despite most evidence being to the contrary. Hell, Huntsman barely even owns up to being Mormon, and he got elected.

When I lived in California, we always had to fill out a backcountry permit, a campfire permit, and an overnight permit (if you were going to be overnighting). Maybe they've simplified things, but I always found it exasperating.

The porn abuse, depression, prescription drug abuse, and business fraud all can be problems, though some are impacted more by demographics in Utah than people realize.

My last point (with regards to my previous post) -- people value different freedoms. You can get pot easily and legally in Colorado, you can gamble in Nevada, you can get fireworks in Wyoming, and you can drive without insurance in New Hampshire. I don't smoke weed or gamble, so Nevada and Colorado hold little attraction for me in those regard. Those who do, though, clearly value the freedom they're afforded, and value the state commensurately.

>Gay marriage is legal here, for crying out loud.

Thanks to the Federal Courts, not the Utah legislature.

When was the last time the Utah legislature passed a bill that The Corporation opposed?

Consider the following:

- Every year the LDS church lobbyist has a meeting with the legislators before the session starts to let them know how the church feels about various issues.

- The last time Utah made major changes to the liquor laws, the bill was first run by LD$, Inc. to see what their position was - this was before the public, the hospitality industry, or anyone else got to see it.

- When Utah abolished the firing squad several years ago, after the bill was introduced, the legislative leaders would not allow a vote on it until The Corporation stated that they were not opposed to it (on the grounds of blood atonement).

- A couple of years ago, a legislator announced that he was going to introduce a flat tax plan for Utah. This plan got quite a few cosponsors before the legislative session started. Then LD$, Inc. came out publically and stated its opposition to the plan. The talk about it promptly ceased, and the bill was never even introduced.

Can you give me any other state where this would happen?

By the way, this all can be documented in the SL media.

"It also has ... among the highest levels of porn abuse..."

Is that a bad thing? :-)

Another reason to leave Utah?

" I can buy a gun and take it home the same day."



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/16/2015 10:24PM by annieg.

I hate the lack of adequate snow and rain for the past ≈ 20 years in utah.

I hate parochial inbred utah mormons.

I hate how populated the wasatch front has become over the past 50 years.

I hate the trash on I-15's shoulders.

I hate the smoggy air.

I hate snoopy mormon neighbors.

I hate mormon parents that allow their 3 year olds to roam the streets after sundown - unsupervised.

I hate the complete lack of boundaries between the LDS church leaders and utah apparatchiks. Corruption abounds.



I love thunderstorms during the monsoon season.

I love the uinta mountains.

I love bryce canyon.

I love watching indie films at the broadway theatre in SLC.

I love trax.

I love the frontrunner.

I love the jordan river walkway.



Mixed bag. Thank dog I only have to spend one week per month there...

I grew up in the heart of Utah...Utah County. I was never happy there, but I really didn't realize just how unhappy until I left. I married a military man and have lived in 5 different states. No matter where I've been, I'm so much happier than I was in Utah. I feel SO much less pressure to be perfect and I appreciate the diversity and different cultures. Utah has some great qualities, but whenever I go there to visit, it only takes me a day or two to start to feel depressed and inadequate again.

I appreciate everyone's responses (well most haha). Thank you for reading my post and hearing my frustration.

For those who like Utah, good for you. I can acknowledge that Utah is a beautiful place. It is principally the social/religious aspect that I dislike so intensely. I was really just feeling frustrated at the time, and anything I found even mildly annoying.

Also, I feel like I must defend myself a bit. I found a few comments to be extremely assumptive, condescending, and moderately insulting. But hey, you have a right to your opinion. Just remember that because your life is a certain way, doesn't mean that's what mine is like. You don't know where I work, what the people are like, where exactly in Utah I live, or a myriad of other factors that play into my frustration.

I tried being myself for a little while. It didn't go over well at all. I was ostracized at work, and people complained that my language was inappropriate (in my opinion, the occasional damn and hell are fairly acceptable amongst adults). I wasn't going around saying FUCK, SHIT, or other more offensive expletives.

So I went back to being as watered down as possible. Everybody just sort of forgot that I'm exmo, because it makes them uncomfortable. Somehow I morphed back to "inactive". It's exhausting.

I long to find a place where I can just be myself, and that's okay. I asked if people liked Utah, with that I would say there's an assumption that I'd like to know your reasons. There is not, however, an invitation to act like a jerk and make assumptions about my life and situation.

peterlynched Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> This is just a rant about how much I hate the
> state I live in. People in Utah suck.

Funny, I have found plenty of great people in Utah.


> I can't
> stand the the fake feeling.

That are quite genuine.

> I can't stand the
> liquor laws.

I don't drink, so that does not bother me. The small amount of alcohol is easily obtainable and going out to a bar is no big deal.

> I can't stand shit being closed on
> Sunday.

I make note of the places that are open and adapt. Things being closed isn't that big of a deal, really.

> I can't stand pretending to be a totally
> different person at work for nine hours a day just
> to avoid making waves.

I am an openly gay man even though there are a lot of LDS around me. I don't have to pretend to be a different person, and I am respected for it.

> I need to move. Bad.

Then do so.

> End
> rant. Anyone here actually like living in Utah?

Yes, I do. But I search for and find what I like. I do not search for and focus on what I do not like.

I think it is one of those "You find what you look for sort of things".

I am glad you like it here. And perhaps I should have said, "a lot of people in Utah suck". There are quite a few really awesome people, but there are many more people I am not fond of, largely due to behaviors that I believe are rooted in church examples and teachings. Otherwise they would be pretty cool too.

As I said in a later post, I was a bit angry at something that happened, so I was being more extreme than I generally feel on a day to day basis. That being said, sometimes, "so move" isn't an immediate option.

Why do people either commiserate a bit, or assume I am an unhappy asshole and if I don't like it here, I should get the fuck out? Maybe, here is what I have done to enjoy my time here..., sans the condescension.

I don't find living here much different than living in California. Yes, there are may people I would not like to have as friends, but they are not part of my life and don't affect my life much at all.

My ex would see mormons everywhere. I wouldn't even notice. He was looking and focusing on it, I was not. He hated Utah, I did not.

I agree, if it weren't for the natural features and a great Shakespeare Festival, I would never visit Utah. Even with those things, you couldn't pay me enough to move there because it's really a theocracy.

I'll commiserate a bit. The best thing I ever did for myself was get out of Utah. I live in a big cosmopolitan mixed bag of people now and like it just fine. There is no dominant group that everyone else has to please just to get by. There is no theocracy.

But Utah? The thing is, yes--you can navigate the system if you have to, but why should you have to? You can remember to buy what you need before Sunday, but wouldn't it be nice if you could just shop on Sunday like they do in civilization? Even beer and wine at the grocery store--on Sunday!

Sure you can handle yourself around fake people if you have to, but life is short and doing that is not on my bucket list.

Sure you can put up a front to keep a job, but why should anyone have to be disingenuous just to keep their job? Shouldn't just being good at what you do be enough?

Yeah, I can play Pollyanna and name dozens of positives about Utah, but why should I need to justify? Why should I feel like I have to "hold my own?" Why should I give up all the small pleasures?

Not being yourself is spiritually exhausting.

Your response is a great representation of my feelings. I can think of the good, but why bother? If you have to spin it to make it palatable, is it really worth it?

I've made my peace with it. I love the outdoors and active culture here, and as long as I don't stray too far from Salt Lake City, I can find plenty of like-minded people. I was a military kid, and let me tell you there really are worse places than Utah. Hold that thought. There are worse places than Salt Lake City. Living in Provo, however, was sheer effing hell. It also helps that the Mr. and I don't have kids and don't want them. I imagine raising kids in Utah would make living here much harder.

I'm somewhat a politico...
Once while on a short sojourn in UT, I suggested that supermarket unit pricing be made mandatory in larger stores;
for 'my trouble' in approaching a senator or rep., I had to undergo a rant/lecture about the so-called 'Free Market'.

Here in WA, we have 1 senator & 2 reps in each leg. district, the 3 serve in a same-numbered district.

In Ew-tah & some other states, the senators have separate numbered districts from the representatives; I find that needlessly confusing. Same story; suggested a change, got a Rant.

Nope, not gonna take that anymore!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/16/2015 11:22PM by GNPE.