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Posted by: Atari ( )
Date: December 08, 2017 08:29AM

I hope he wins. I would be pissed if I was a taxpayer and had to support Kim Davis.

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Posted by: Dave the Atheist ( )
Date: December 08, 2017 10:57AM

Kim Davis refused to marry a gay professor ? Would she have married him if he wasn't gay ?

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Posted by: StillAnon ( )
Date: December 08, 2017 11:43AM

" Would she have married him if he wasn't gay ?"

She would've married him if he wasn't a professor.

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Posted by: Dave the Atheist ( )
Date: December 08, 2017 11:45AM

I'm not a professor and I'm glad I'm not married to her.

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Posted by: linkin up ( )
Date: December 08, 2017 01:16PM


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Posted by: Done & Done ( )
Date: December 08, 2017 03:56PM

Thanks for the link. Made me happy.

The passing of Same Sex Marriage gave the terrified young gay kids a light at the end of the tunnel that they didn't have before. Especially those in middle America and Evangelical America, and Mormon America and, well, you get the idea. These kids now know that there is something wonderful out there besides the bigotry they feel all around them. How priceless is it to realize that most don't think like Kim Davis? It actually could get better. Knowing that can be the difference between life and death.

Of faith, hope, and charity the greatest of these is charity or so says some book a lot of people take stock in. If so, is there anything more charitable than giving someone hope? Nice combo.

Faith? meh . . .

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Posted by: Nightingale ( )
Date: December 08, 2017 04:56PM

That is wonderful news. Imagine forcing people to change who they intrinsically are. Impossible! And to attempt or demand that is reprehensible. Ignorant. Bigoted. Stupid. Unmerciful.

Missionaries and preachers, which many of us were, seeking converts to whichever flavour church we belonged to, by birth or by choice, seek to convert folks from their own religion of choice. Many feel that their faith defines their core being. They can't imagine changing or especially deconverting. They see the universe and eternity and their lives through the prism of their own faith (which often makes it difficult to understand or accept someone else's point of view that is coloured by their own beliefs).

But beliefs can evolve/change or be changed by new information.

Your core being cannot. It is who you are as a human and it informs your whole identity and understanding of yourself.

What century are we living in that many still do not comprehend this and worse, seek to electric-shock or worse someone who isn't conforming to the demands or beliefs of another? (So-called conversion therapy for LGBTQ, corporal punishment, murder - in many countries, under wicked regimes, but are our hands clean in this seemingly enlightened "West"? If so, only very recently - eg: Not too many yrs ago the LDS Church inflicted shock therapy on some of its non-conforming members - I seriously hope not to hear that anything like that could still be going on).

I have been "religious" since a young age, irrespective of a fairly religion-free upbringing. As a young kid I loved organ music and the sound of hymns so I was drawn to church despite parents who didn't attend. I had a bug in my brain that wanted to find out which was "the true church". That led me to "study" with JWs, and I converted. But I didn't fit in, due to not being able to believe the entire spiel, which they expect one to do, and I left after 7 years. Tried various mainstream Christian denominations, drawn to the music and a benign version of their beliefs, mostly mainstream EVs, as I call them (not too extreme or cloistered). Again though, I didn't fit in as once more some of the major tenets I could not make myself endorse. Then one year I lost my mind for a while and tried Mormonism. At first it felt like "home" as it was, to me, very similar to JWs in many ways and even some of the doctrine. Again, Did Not Fit In. Majorly not. Left after 3 years, to their and my own undisguised relief.

But I can change my beliefs. I can convert and de-convert. The religious aspect of my life is only a part of who I am as a whole.

I am straight. I can't change that. If someone demanded it I'd be flummoxed. Constitutionally unable to be different than who I am in that regard.

Beliefs are something you hold. That can be changeable.

Your sexual orientation is something you are as a human being.

I have been made to feel pretty bad in the past about my religious beliefs and approach (more open than theirs, I'd say) - either by people in a particular faith/denomination who thought I wasn't enough of a conformist (I wasn't) or myself, wondering what was the matter with me that I was always an outsider. But it is possible to change what I believe and think, given new information or a different perspective.

Hard to imagine what it would be like to be unable to change, and not wanting to do so, one's sexual orientation, even at the expense of losing everything, just for being who you are.

The fact that people are ostracized, and worse, due to their orientation to the point of emotional turmoil, life-long struggles, and suicide in so many instances, is mind-boggling and beyond sad.

Yes, very good news that marriage equality, finally, in many places is helping to alleviate anguish in this regard for LGBTQ folks.

And how does it hurt others? I don't see why it should. And I wish more people would understand that.

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Posted by: baura ( )
Date: December 10, 2017 06:44AM

One place is bucking the trend of a drop in teen suicides: Utah.

http://fox13now.com/2017/11/30/cdc-report-shows-youth-suicide-rate-in-utah-on-the-rise/

In the rest of the country people are accepting that it's the law
of the land, but in Utah the predominant force intensifies it's
fight against marriage equality--and, it seems, drives the teen
suicide rate even higher.

The gospel brings such joy and happiness . . . Yeah, right.

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Posted by: summer ( )
Date: December 10, 2017 08:36AM

I was reading some TBM boards yesterday. On one of the boards, a gay church member was reaching out for help. The responses were surprisingly balanced and compassionate. A number of board members even said (or implied) that staying in the Mormon church might not be the best course of action. So things might be starting to change even in Morland.

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Posted by: Dorothy ( )
Date: December 10, 2017 10:40AM

I know I have a bad attitude, but I think if people suggested the gay person not attend church it is because an openly gay person makes them uncomfortable. Be closeted or be gone.

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Posted by: donbagley ( )
Date: December 10, 2017 08:08PM

I agree, Dorothy.

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Posted by: abby ( )
Date: December 10, 2017 08:05PM

A woman who has been married four times to three different men. A woman who clearly did not listen to the Bible. She's divorced and had sex outside of marriage. She's the one who denies a committed gay couple the right to marry.

Whatever. She's "born again" for a whole six years. She's automatically going to heaven. God wins again!!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/10/2017 08:06PM by abby.

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