Should Muslim bakers have to make Jewish cakes?
Should Jewish bakers have to make Nazi cakes?
Should Nazi bakers have to make Black cakes?
Should Black bakers have the make KKK cakes?

Where does it end?

Baker Wrote:
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> Should Muslim bakers have to make Jewish cakes?
> Should Jewish bakers have to make Nazi cakes?
> Should Nazi bakers have to make Black cakes?
> Should Black bakers have the make KKK cakes?
>
> Where does it end?

Cake bakers make cakes. This is what their business license (and the requirements of their local health department) both allow, and also require them to do (assuming they are open for business, and they are engaged in the business of making and selling cakes to the general public).

The exceptions to the general rule would include something like a prospective patron wants to buy a cake from the kosher baker, but wants bacon grease used as the fat in the cake. If this should ever happen, the kosher baker could refuse to bake a less-than-kosher cake because that baker does not either make, or sell, less-than-kosher cakes to ANYONE (including any passing Jews who are not observant, and who DO, as it might happen, prefer bacon grease in their cake!)...

...BUT any cakes the kosher baker DOES make, have to be sold to anyone who walks in the door and offers the baker (or the baker's employee) the same amount of money the baker charges anyone else for a given cake.

This would apply to a kosher baker, who has a customer known to be in the KKK, and this KKK customer wants to buy a cake. If the patron is offering whatever that cake costs, the baker must sell the cake to that person.

If the KKK patron wants to put a Nazi slogan on the cake, or a white-hooded figure (or maybe two figures, for a KKK wedding cake) on the cake, the kosher baker would STILL be required by law to sell the CAKE (alone) to the patron (and would then leave it up to the patron to get someone else to write the slogan in frosting, or place the statue(s), on the cake).

The baker would have to provide the cake, but not necessarily the writing, or the statue placing.

This would be true even if the kosher baker's parents and grandparents had been murdered either in the Holocaust OR by the KKK itself (there are many black Jews, the KKK is anti-Jewish, and there were, for a fact, Jews killed by KKK members or KKK sympathizers during the Civil Rights Era, and very possibly before)...doesn't matter: if the patron is willing to pay for the cake, the patron must be sold the cake.

Yes, Nazi bakers have to make (if that is the service being offered to the public) and sell cakes to black patrons---this is one example of what the Civil Rights Movement was about!!!

And, yes, black bakers do have to make and sell cakes to KKK (or Nazi) patrons, on the same terms as black bakers offer those same cakes to non-Nazi/non-KKK patrons.

It is simple: If anyone is in business (particularly a licensed business, and most especially if that business is regulated by laws enforced by public agencies such as the Health Department) then the services and products of that business must be offered to the general public (this means EVERYONE) on the same terms, and with the same availability, as are offered to that business's personally-preferred patrons.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 12/09/2017 04:13AM by Tevai.

I understand what you say. Personally, I believe any business has the right to reject any patron for any reason.

Please don't run a lunch counter. And watch a documentary or two.

There is a difference between having a cake and eating it too.

Say a person was forced to make a cake they didn't want to make. Will the cake taste good or will it be bland? Will the icing taste good or be bitter? Will the cake look good or have flaws? Will the bake be on time or late? Will he drop the cake on his way in?

I'd rather work with and support someone willing to work with me than force someone to work with me.

Heartless Wrote:
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> There is a difference between having a cake and
> eating it too.
>
> Say a person was forced to make a cake they didn't
> want to make. Will the cake taste good or will it
> be bland? Will the icing taste good or be bitter?
> Will the cake look good or have flaws? Will the
> bake be on time or late? Will he drop the cake on
> his way in?
>
> I'd rather work with and support someone willing
> to work with me than force someone to work with
> me.

I agree with this too, mostly because of the possibility of intentional contamination---which can be a big problem for people ("bakers," in this instance) who feel themselves acting under duress.

The problem is that, in many geographical areas, there aren't any, or enough, viable alternatives. The nearest "big"/"bigger" community that has a baker may be the only possibility in that larger area.

(I don't know if Alamogordo, New Mexico, has a baker who does wedding cakes, but when I lived there---a number of years ago---we had to drive to El Paso or Albuquerque for most anything which was automatically available in a "Big City." It may be different now, and Las Cruces may now be a viable alternative, but for a very long time, everyone who lived in Alamo or at Holloman AFB drove a whole lot of miles to El Paso and back in the course of living a regular life.)

The only exceptions need to be those who gouge or mistreat those who don't otherwise have convenient access to products and serves in question.

If a vendor is rude or mean spirited, I withdraw my business and go elsewhere.

My young grandson rides a bus to and from school every day. He must buy passes from a vendor who is rude to him for being a teen without much spending power. This is wrong.

It's also wrong if vendors make rude comments about a person's age, gender, or other other aspect of their persona. I hope those vendors lose business or have to close up shop.

Vendors can also be fined or shut down for violating the law.

Seriously just get a different baker or have a good time and bake your own cake.

Now we have to see how this issue develops in the Supreme Court.

Find yourself a new landlord, some other house to buy, a new job, a new community, a new grocery store, a new bank, a new hospital, etc. We have already been through this during the 1960s. Most would consider this settled law.

Someone's oxen is now being gored, and considering himself to be in an obviously protected class, i.e., christian, he feels the righteous desire to protect said oxen.

"I'm special!"

I wonder if a clown baker would be forced to make a cream pie for another clown, knowing where it might end up...

Baker Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Should Muslim bakers have to make Jewish cakes?
> Should Jewish bakers have to make Nazi cakes?
> Should Nazi bakers have to make Black cakes?
> Should Black bakers have the make KKK cakes?

What's a Jewish cake?
What's a Nazi cake?
What's a Black cake?
What's a KKK cake?

I've never heard of any of these. I have heard of a wedding cake, which is what the couple asked for. There was no discussion about the cake being any different from any other wedding cake. The baker simply did not wish to do business with a gay couple.

This is not a first amendment issue. This is not a freedom issue. This is about discrimination in a commercial setting. What the baker did was wrong and violated the law.