How did you discover mormonism was false?

When you subsequently encounter an idea, how do you test the idea? Can you test ideas like other religions without joining the religion of atheism? How?

I'm trying to get at whether a person can question if a particular religion is true without joining the religion of atheism. Is that possible?



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 02/10/2015 03:29PM by thingsithink.

That's what I'm hearing Don. Atheism is a dogmatic, close-minded religion.

So, how can a person address bad ideas? Is there any alternative to being a member of a religion or are we all cursed with being close-minded, irrational beings operating on pure faith?

This is not original but it is my comback when anyone claims atheism is a religion.

Golfing is a sport; not golfing is not a sport!

I was never swayed by any religion outside of the LDS Church. I confounded them frequently on the Internet and from my front porch. Whatever answers there were other religions did not have.

Neither does the LDS Church have answers for that matter. At some point in this life journey I realized that *I* needed to resolve these issues between God and myself.

I discovered that the Church as a parasitic organization that would gladly consume everything we let it. Members took their lead from the Church and became "takers" themselves. I stayed with the Church so I could observe their relentless demands upon my family because my wife never could restrain the Church. When my children became responsible for themselves, I could leave.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/10/2015 03:47PM by idleswell.

Who is saying that atheism is a dogmatic, close-minded religion?

anonuk, tall man short hair, koriwhore -

(I may have improperly added in the dogmatic, close-minded part.)

A few others in the recent threads about atheism recently and in the past asserting that atheism is a religion.

If atheism is a religion then Communism wants to destroy it.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 02/10/2015 04:20PM by Elder Berry.

Ouch.

very funny ;D

I would disagree with the opinion that atheism is a religion. I consider myself an atheist, and I don't have a religious bone in my corpulent corpus.

I never said Atheism was a dogmatic, close minded religion, btw.
I just quoted Agnostics, like Einstein, Sagan, Bill Nye, Sam Harris and Neil deGrass Tyson, all of whom explained why they are Agnostic, not Atheists.
Apparently that's a huge problem for Atheists.

"How did you discover mormonism was false?"

Personal experience led me to see that Mormonism might just be false. Then research confirmed it. The rabbit hole is very deep.

Mormonism is the crap that sits on top of theism, so if you remove that you're still left with theism. Or whatever passes for theism, which is tricky because it's so hard to define.

It might be easiest to consider the nature of consciousness. Is it inside the brain or outside the brain? If mind is non-local, and there are experiments that prove that it is (such as psi, remote viewing and precognition tests that titillate psychologists so much) then it opens up a world of possibilities.

The scariest possibility is that the Mormons might be right about some things. When you allow for entangled consciousness, priesthood power has a basis for working. You have the possibility for direct interaction with the mind of God, whatever weirdness that may be. This is why the materialists are so dogmatic. Like Eddie Valentine in Trading Places, with his fingers in his ears yelling "La la la la la...".

Leaving Mormonism behind is easier if it's all bullshit. Unfortunately, it's a twisted philosophy that corrupts true principles. That makes it harder to unravel. Tithing is a corruption of the verifiable principle of karmic gifting. TSCC makes it about you. That's corrupt.

The power of prayer, the priesthood, and faith are harder to sweep under the rug if there's some kind of universal hyper-reality outside of time and space. It's scary to not have any explanation, but it's dumb to work from a position of ignorance. That's why the heated discussions on RfM. People hate bullshit (that's why they left TSCC) so they don't like people arguing from ignorance.

bradley Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The scariest possibility is that the Mormons might
> be right about some things. When you allow for
> entangled consciousness, priesthood power has a
> basis for working.

Yeah, but in the untangling you would have to accept women have just as much power as men. That is heresy.

Heresy is a great leveler. It shows how ridiculous the cultural encoding of things that may exist is.

cultural encoding is a very good point.

Here in Scotland we have a very matriarchal society and have done since pictish times, ie over 5000 years. It's kinda hard to throw off and the nearest someone from a patriarchal society could understand is the age old saying 'only spartan women bear spartan men'. Those of you educated in the classics know that this statement means spartan women held a position of great respect amongst their society in comparison to women of other contemporary civilisations (ie the greeks, etc).

We in the UK see priesthood as something different that was arranged for men to have since they will never understand the bearing and bringing forth of life in the same way that women do (not being sexist here btw) and in this train of thought, women have a special understanding of a creator that a man could never have. British mormon women see priesthood as a 'consolation prize' for men, not in any derogatory way I might add.

Back to topic - I did it the other way around. I left as a teenager then 15 years later my closest sibling died (he also left as a teenager). I stood firm and didn't go running back to the faith of my youth as a crutch and comfort but I did spend a lot of time studying many religious beliefs to figure out if I did truly believe in a god or anything else. I did believe in prayer before this point.

It was only when investigating the church like I had never been a member when I found the damning evidence on the church's own website. I had been in a quandry ever since my daughter came of age for baptism and I could not allow her to make that decision unless I had made one for myself. I have never read the book of mormon but reading the first book of nephi sounds like a big apology and cover up for the first 116 pages going missing.

So, no, I didn't have to join another religion, I only had to investigate this one properly.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/11/2015 11:09AM by anonuk.

Psi? Remote viewing? Precognition?

Please point me to these experiments. These are pretty big claims, they better have scientifically sound evidence to back them up.

Xyandro Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Psi? Remote viewing? Precognition?
>
> Please point me to these experiments. These are
> pretty big claims, they better have scientifically
> sound evidence to back them up.

Experimental evidence and math.

http://www.deanradin.com/evidence/evidence.htm
http://www.sheldrake.org/research
http://dbem.ws/FeelingFuture.pdf
http://www.remote-viewing.com/ARVpaper.pdf

But they are big claims only in the sense that WTC7 was brought down by something other than small fires. Just because the powers that be argue against nonlocality doesn't mean they are right. It just means they have a vested interest. The proof is in the pudding.

Have you ever watched baseball? That's precognition at work. The brain could never hit a ball in real time because of time delays in the brain.

bradley Wrote:
> Have you ever watched baseball? That's
> precognition at work. The brain could never hit a
> ball in real time because of time delays in the
> brain.

No, actually, it's not. Like other research, it's evidence that parts of our brains that we're not always *consciously* aware of are working "behind the scenes" to "make decisions" without conscious awareness. In fact, it's no different than the parts of your brain that send nerve signals to keep your heart beating without you being consciously aware. There's nothing magical or supernatural about it.

When I left mormonism, I sometimes attended Catholic mass with friends (OK, mostly with girlfriends). I was frankly stunned by the difference -- church was welcoming, enjoyable, friendly, so much more a celebration of humanity and community than anything I'd ever experienced in mormonism.
I appreciated the community and the kindness. I didn't join...:)

Just some support for your argument.

I have had over 100 visions/meditative dreams that have come true after by studying PSI/Psychic/medium books. I have asked to see what would be on the nightly news or what I would see during my drive to the gym during a meditation. I then observed over 100 positive results and documented them. I also had a premonition of an exact spot on a mountain where I would have an accident. I said to myself I didn't want to see it so didn't. But on the next day when I went skiing I specifically recalled the vision and said hey I will check now I am clear. About 2-3 seconds later someone shot over the top of the face I was traversing and hit me from the back ----- no one was injured so no big deal except I was warned.

However, sometimes I ask and get nothing when of course there is obviously something news worthy happening ------ so I can't control when or if I will get something. I rarely get something and don't see it occur but it does happen so the trust is not 100%.

Using this type of psychic/meditation and asking (inspired writing) has got me to believe in God, life after death, spirit guides, and reincarnation of the soul. I never even knew what I believed made me a spiritist until someone on this blog told me.

I studied Mormonism at great length for 30 years, and when I eventually found enough published, truth-revealing material, I knew it was false.

I then became a kundalini yoga meditator, and discovered the functional basis for theism.

I stepped out of the box and looked at the Mormons in my life, and realized I don't like Mormons. They are heartless (lack empathy), and are conditional in their love/acceptance.

So then I realized the church is a cult, pumping out cultic people that are narcisistic, and arrogant. All that matters in the life of a Mormons is the cult.

My heart goes out to those of us raised in a cultic Mormon family with cultic parents, cultic siblings, a cultic spouse... And now as an exmo, cultic children.

Then I figured a cult couldn't be the one and only true church, and then discovered Mormonism is a fraud.

Then I discovered Christianity by attending a community Christian church. I went through a phase when I craved Christianity. It was a fascinating discovery, the difference between Mormonism and Christianity. It is my claim that Mormons and by extension exmos don't understand Christianity. In fact Christian religions have done a poor job interpreting Christianity.

My belief now is that we are all equal in that we all sin and all need the atonement. You can't work your way to heaven, but you also can't expect forgiveness is granted without humility and remorse. Mormon think because they are a Mormon and have a TR they are heaven material. A very false ideology. Mormonism diminishes Jesus' atonement.

I actually worry about the salvation of Mormons in my life. They have been sold a fraudulent bill of goods.

No, I did it the other way around. I was a part of several other churches before Mormonism. Finding out that Mormonism was a fraud was the last straw and I exited religion entirely.

At the time I left, my reaction was more like, "If this one is false (Mormonism), then they all are. That's it, I'm done."

I had been so brainwashed growing up in Salt Lake City during the 1950's and had it burned in my brain that mormonism was the only true church on the face of the earth.

So when I realized that TSCC wasn't true, I had nowhere left to go.

I do attend a church. I did not join a new religion, though I could reasonably be described as a secular humanist. That is something I am, not something I joined.

It took thirteen years and a lot of soul searching but I joined another church after having officially resigning from Mormonism. I knew the LDS church was a bunch of crap several years before resigning. A new church had nothing to do with finding out the truth of Mormonism's falsehoods.

I grew up in a non-religious home. I have only been to church once that I remember with my mother, never with my father. My parents believed in God but hated organized religion. Religion wasn't important to them, but morality in the sense of being a good person and respecting others was.

I have always believed in God, but over the years my understanding of my higher power has changed to recognize that my concept of God is not everyone's and although I believe something intensity doesn't mean it's necessarily true.

My exit from Mormonism began with Cognitive Dissonance between what I read as Christianity in the New Testament vs. what was stressed in Mormonism. Finally, a trip to the Manti Temple convinced me that Mormonism was more of a gnostic cult than a valid version of Christianity.

After my exit, I told myself I would never ever join another church, paraphrasing my parents, organized religion is wrong. Although I never stopped believing in the Judeo-Christian concept of God. Unlike many on this Board, a Trinitarian God was perfectly in my understanding. (If one thinks the Trinity is hard to understand, try reading Ezekiel's vision of God in the first four chapters of the Biblical book of that name!)

After many years of wanting nothing to do with religion I met an Episcopal priest at a social event and we got talking. Mother
Linda let me vent about my hatred of religion and basically said she understood where I was coming from. Being one of the first women priests didn't come easily in the 1970s-80s. Finally, she asked me, but you do believe in God, why not give church another chance. Eventually I did and found a faith community that encourages thinking, caring, and spiritual growth.

I have three criteria for a Christian church: 1. It has to welcome and affirm ALL, 2. What is preached over the pulpit has to bear reasonable resemblance to what Jesus taught, and 3. They have to serve me (and anyone else who asks) Communion.

Best wishes TIT (wow, I just realized what I typed!) the Boner.

Interesting read.

I responded to you on another thread. It seems my response is gone. I was just observing that you are adept at talking to believers and non-believers alike here on the board.

Nice to hear a bit of your story.

TIT



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/14/2015 11:11PM by thingsithink.

Nope. Church did a fine job on its own of proving it was false. No comparisons required. The GA's actions over the years speak for themselves.

Finding out that your were lied to and decieved with guile by so-called apostles, prophets, seers, and revalators is quite enough all by iteself. Move onto recognizing the harm being done to others by lay leaders just 'winging it' and insult is further added to injury.

If anything finding out the truth of TSCC makes it hard to even consider becoming part of any other organized religion.

You wrote:

"I'm trying to get at whether a person can question if a particular religion is true without joining the religion of atheism. Is that possible?"

I think the concept of whether a church is "true" is strictly an LDS concept.

I have visited, participated in, joined, investigated many many different religions, but none of them ever, ever, says diddly or puts and emphasis that they are the one and only "true" church.

Certainly you can test a religion and say that it doesn't sit well with you, or that it is a good fit, but whether or not it is "true" is not possible. After all, aren't all religions man-made?

No. I am not a member of any church and never will be again...nor will I "test drive" another faith. Not interested in the slightest.

Ron Burr

I was thinking No, but actually yes, now that I think of it. I was always curious about other religions, and I wanted to find out what they taught, but my parents told me that the devil resides in other churches and would rather me die than let me go.

After I moved out and started hating the Morgue and researching I decided to try other churches. I felt incredibly guilty about it and still believed that Mormonism was probably true but I couldn't take going anymore. I still believed in God so I kept trying, thinking "Even if they don't have the full truth like Mormonism, it's better than nothing." So sad how brainwashed I was.

I started going to a Christian church and was so against the concept of grace and everything was so weird that I stopped going until we moved and I found an actual class that helped Mormons transition to Christianity. Once I was taught the Bible without JS's pollution of it then I knew that Mormonism was very false and a cult and I have zero doubts about the Morgue being true anymore.

Atheism isn't actually a religion, and very few people who are atheist go overboard to the point of treating it like it is.

Atheism is, in reality, the absence of religion. Atheism and religion are not and never will be synonyms, they are in fact antonyms.

Atheism is simply a lack of existence of religion.

I was thinking No, but actually yes, now that I think of it. I was always curious about other religions, and I wanted to find out what they taught, but my parents told me that the devil resides in other churches and would rather me die than let me go.

After I moved out and started hating the Morgue and researching I decided to try other churches. I felt incredibly guilty about it and still believed that Mormonism was probably true but I couldn't take going anymore. I still believed in God so I kept trying, thinking "Even if they don't have the full truth like Mormonism, it's better than nothing."

I started going to a Christian church and was so against the concept of grace and everything was so weird that I stopped going until we moved and I found an actual class that helped Mormons transition to Christianity. Once I was taught the Bible without JS's pollution of it then I knew that Mormonism was very false and a cult and I have zero doubts about the Morgue being true anymore.

No. My mission convinced me that Mormonism was nonsense, but I still maintained a fragile belief in someone out there larger than what we can comprehend. I'm loosely affiliated with my wife's church now, but my state of belief remains fragile.

Yes, in my case. I had only ever visited another church a couple of times for a marriage and a funeral, and had nothing really to compare. My exit took place back in the 80's and there wasn't a plethora of information out there about the church like there is today.

I had been inactive for a while and when I started really searching and questioning a friend going through the same doubts from her Catholic upbringing suggested we start visiting some other churches to check them out.

The first one was a non denominational and after a few upbeat songs they had announcements before the sermon. I remember nothing from the sermon, but the announcements floored me and were probably the start of realizing how deeply I'd been lied to as a Mormon.

They mentioned their upcoming softball schedule. I think they said they were playing the First Baptists next Saturday followed by another denomination the following weekend. I was shocked. One thing that was deeply ingrained in my upbringing was that all the other churches were contending against one another. I honestly thought that they would be bad mouthing each other and displaying some real competition. Other than softball, there wasn't any.

Shortly after that I was given a book that had some conversion stories from famous people and ended with an explanation of the gospel. I had never once in my life heard this simple explanation of the gospel: God is perfect, we're not, and Jesus is the bridge that creates the possibility of a relationship between flawed humanity and the perfect deity. No prophet, works, priesthood, or temples. My interest was piqued.

After that, I wanted to learn why after all those years in Sunday School I had never heard that before. Someone told me about the Tanners, and I had a very long phone conversation with Sandra. I quickly studied my way to requesting the removal of my name.