If you found out he existed. That just totally kills all religion for me in one swoop. I would walk right on by and never look back. Soo disappointing.

Why would you even go there?

If you know anything about Jesus' life, you'd know he wasn't about secret handshakes.

Don't be silly.

Why do you think Mormonism is a cult? It's because of crazy stuff like secret handshakes.

Yea but mormons pretend to know jesus the best. And the temple is his house and there are secret handshakes in his house.

The "International House of Handshakes"

: )

Thats what i would call it or the house of handshakes.

badassadam Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Yea but mormons pretend to know jesus the best.
> And the temple is his house and there are secret
> handshakes in his house.


Catholics, Seventh-Day Adventists, fundamental Protestants, and evangelical Protestants claim to know Jesus best as well. The Church of Christ even proclaims to be the only Christians. There's nothing particularly innovative in such a pretense.

It just really bothered me when mormons claimed that. Like he was their best bud and only they knew about him.

It's arrogant and bothersome, but Mormons don't have a monopoly on the pretense that theirs is the only divine truth.

It seemed like they did when i was in it. Jesus was the chief commander that only talked directly to the apostles. No doubts in their minds.

badassadam Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> It seemed like they did when i was in it. Jesus
> was the chief commander that only talked directly
> to the apostles. No doubts in their minds.

THEY think they have a monopoly on the one truth, and when you're a part of them, it's easy to be sucked into believing it along with them. I'm merely saying that there are other faiths claiming to hold that same monopoly on the religious truth. You wouldn't see much of those other faiths when you're in the middle of the LDS church, particularly in a place like Pocatello.

Yep definitely not here in good old pocatello, idaho. The hardest place to ever leave from bar none. And yes it is hard to see when you are sucked in the cult. They really do make you think its the real one true church. But i was just tired of being a blind sheep/idiot. I may seem like an idiot now but i used to be way worse in my la la land of my truth.

What if jesus was actually one of the Little Rascals?

It would be more believable thats what.

But not the one who grew up to be a molester, right?

Right?

I dont know old dog one seems to lead to the other.

elderolddog Wrote:
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> But not the one who grew up to be a molester,
> right?
>
> Right?


One of them grew up to be a molester?

My bad... I was thinking of Roscoe "Fatty" Arbuckle, but he was never in the Little Rascals. And he wasn't a molester. He 'manslaughter'ed' a young lady with whom he was having intimate relations. This was in 1921.

The secret temple handshakes is more like a boy's club ritual for entrance to a treehouse club.

Just think you needed no secret password to be born.

You'll need no secret password when you cross over to the other side.

We have no control over our birth or eternal destiny. That is in the hands of the Creator.

There'll be no crash course in secret handshakes when that time arrives. It's said God judges us by the condition of our hearts, not outward appearances.

I sure hope there are no handshakes after death, that would be beyond strange.

Whatever happens after death will be the new normal.

Hi Badass and Amyjo, you both touched on a point of the temple that caused me great cognitive dissonance as a TBM. Did Jesus do the secret handshakes, did he teach them to the apostles in secret? This was troubling to me, as a TBM, because of this passage in John’s Gospel—

19 The high priest then questioned Jesus about his disciples and his teaching.

20 Jesus answered him, "I have spoken openly to the world. I have always taught in synagogues and in the temple, where all Jews come together. I have said nothing in secret.

21 Why do you ask me? Ask those who have heard me what I said to them; they know what I said." http://esv.to/John18.19-21

“I have never taught in secret...” then why did I, The Boner, do things in secret and take a vow of secrecy never to reveal what I did? Could it be that Jesus never taught the disciples the temple ceremony? Wait a minute...maybe there was no temple ceremony? But wait, Adam and Eve received their endownments and garments...didn’t ?Jesus give the Endowment to his apostles? What’s going on here?



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 10/07/2017 06:35PM by BYU Boner.

Its very confusing boner but i would like to know if jesus really did this or taught this. If so it is very strange.

Badass, the handshakes, tokens, penalties, and obligations of secrecy came from Joseph Smith as he adapted the Nauvoo Masonic temple ceremonies. He kept the handshakes, modified the penalties, and kept the vows of secrecy. He also kept the concept of the Masonic apron, Five Points of Fellowship, the Square and Compass (the breast marks on everyone’s garments), and the concept of “by invitation only” into the actual temple.

The last time I went to the temple, I sat in the Celestial Room and realized it was all a cult, and that I had bought it hook, line, and sinker. My words to myself were, “Oh fuck! I’m in a cult!”



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/07/2017 06:50PM by BYU Boner.

I realized that as well without going through the temple. It was maturity that led me out and into the light of day.

What the church calls 'apostasy,' was my epiphany.

:)

Its all so f#cking weird boner my mind just can not get over it. My whole family does this handshake sh#t and they have been doing it for a very long time. It is such a strange position to be in. They all think it is legit i just can't handle that mindf#ck.

badassadam Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Its all so f#cking weird boner my mind just can
> not get over it. My whole family does this
> handshake sh#t and they have been doing it for a
> very long time. It is such a strange position to
> be in. They all think it is legit i just can't
> handle that mindf#ck.

It's a position a whole lot of us are in, Adam, if that makes any difference. I have two parents and their parents and grandparents before them, and five siblings and their spouses all doing the weird handshakes. I'd like to think that even one of them is smart enough to see through it, but if so, I wouldn't know who it would be, and that person is faking it damn well.

God d@mn right i just wish atleast one of my family could see through it. I am kind of in a loner position. I do have a cousin that saw through it but she is treated like a f#ck up outcast like i am. It is so f#cked that mormon families pick one person in the family to destroy that has a brain and doesnt go along with it. Nothing me or my cousin accomplish in life would ever impress the family that does secret handshakes, it is f#cked. Its an upside down world being raised mormon i tell you what.

Boner, once you have the Second Anointing, you'll understand the need for secrecy. I'd say more but...

Does anybody know what happens in the second annointing? Is it naked stuff?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/07/2017 08:13PM by badassadam.

Good lord all they did was copy jesus and mary in the bible.

No, see, he only taught the magic handshakes and other secret stuff during the forty days he tarried with them AFTER his resurrection! All better now? :)

Yes much better, that makes so much more sense.

No, I'm sure that if Jesus existed he couldn't have done all the temple's BS simply because masonry didn't exist in Jesu's time.

http://packham.n4m.org/mason-endow.htm

What if jesus was the first mason? Did i just blow your mind? I think i did.

If he was the first mason, he must have been born in the british islands in the early 15th century or in the early 16th century (it depends on what is the fact that you consider to have started the masonry).
I guess I can't imagine Jesus being british.
Too weird even for a guy who was a TBM.

Hey it could happen the guy walked on water.

And make the water scotch instead of wine LOL.

D@mn skippy.

The Mormon temple endowment ceremony is based on similar ceremonies from Masonic lodges (Joseph Smith was a Mason.) Masonry dates back to the stone masons of the middle ages. Here is a short article that gives a bit of background:

https://www.freemason.org/discoverMasonry/history.htm

A lot of Mormon symbolism goes back to the Masons: The square, the compass, the apron.

Jesus was a Jew who would have had no idea about secret handshakes. The ancient Jewish temples had nothing in common with modern Mormon temples other than that they are all large buildings that are called "temples."



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/07/2017 07:16PM by summer.

I hope there is no resemblance from the temples of old to the temples now.

badassadam Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I hope there is no resemblance from the temples of
> old to the temples now.

If you're talking about the Second Temple in Jerusalem, which was destroyed by the Romans in the year 70 C.E., and the Mormon temples now, there is no resemblance.

The Second Temple was mostly a slaughterhouse for the many different animals which were brought to the temple for "sacrificing." Some non-bloody things took place there, but if you "think slaughterhouse," those outstanding features of sight and smell will predominate.

[Solomon's Temple (in other words: the "first temple") had been destroyed by the Babylonians about five hundred years earlier, in 587 B.C.E.]

Unless Mormon temples are doing a whole lot of killing of animals in their temples, there is absolutely no resemblance between Mormon temples now and the Second Temple (or Solomon's Temple, the earlier temple) in Jerusalem back then.

The mormons act like their temple is the same thing as the temple of old, so its total bs.

summer Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

>
> Jesus was a Jew who would have had no idea about
> secret handshakes. The ancient Jewish temples had
> nothing in common with modern Mormon temples other
> than that they are all large buildings that are
> called "temples."

^^^^This. Christians tend to completely forget that Jesus (Yeshua) was a Jew, lived in a Jewish community, worshipped as a jew etc etc.

He was not a Christian

We know what went on in the Hebrew temples. It's in the OT (I forget which book explains it in lengthy detail. It puts me to sleep to read it)

Haha jesus christ was not a christian now that is funny. Guess he didn't believe in himself, a little bit of a confidence issue.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/07/2017 11:52PM by badassadam.

badassadam Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Haha jesus christ was not a christian now that is
> funny. Guess he didn't believe in himself, a
> little bit of a confidence issue.

This is from what I assume is a predominately Christian source:

"Christianity refers to Jesus of Nazareth. But it did not begin with him. Jesus was a Jew. He was born as a Jew, lived as a Jew and died as a Jew. If he is described as the founder of Christianity, then he is a founder who throughout his life belonged to a different religion from the one he is supposed to have founded. His death on the cross with the reason of his execution indicated by the inscription "King of the Jews" shows that the Roman power in the person of the prefect Pontius Pilate had him executed as a Jewish agitator. ... The Gospels represent Jesus as a Jew who lived in the Jewish context and rarely came in contact with non-Jews. ... This much has been widely accepted: Jesus was a Jew."

http://www.jcrelations.net/When+Did+Christianity+Originate%3F.2788.0.html?L=3



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/08/2017 12:30PM by Tevai.

Exactly right. Jesus was a Jew who lived his faith. He was born, lived, and died as a Jew.

He didn't found Christianity. The Romans did.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/13/2017 11:06AM by caffiend.

Milkshakes, not handshakes.

Jesus was Jewish. They don't do secret handshakes. :-/

Are you completey positive on that? There was no secret combinations going on?

Angela's correct. There are no secret handshakes or secret rites in Judaism.

It's an open book for anyone wanting to study it and its practices. The study itself involves a lifetime and then some, so no one can master all there is to know about it. But it isn't because it is secretive.

It's because it is so expansive and in depth. It doesn't try to over simplify the difficult questions of life, where we came from or where we're going. It doesn't attempt to describe God except as the Grand Designer of this world and the Universe and all inhabitants therein.

It doesn't believe it is the only path to heaven but that many roads can lead there, and it isn't necessary to be Jewish to gain eternal life.

There is no need to hide behind secrecy in Judaism, for it is not a cult.

While not actually "secret," it is interesting where Leonard Nimoy got the "Vulcan salute" hand gesture from...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vulcan_salute

That salute is a trip.

The Bible doesn't say anything about Jesus teaching secret handshakes. It also doesn't say anything about Jesus teaching surfing on the Sea of Galilee or zip lining from the top of the Jerusalem temple. That doesn't mean you're not allowed to believe those things actually happened.

I didnt think jesus taught that in the bible. And i do believe zip lining happened, have you ever seen the movie aladdin? Now that guy could zip line from a temple no problem.

Plus Jesus never pooped. Never.

Same for Joseph Smith, Jr. His dad did, but not Joseph.

Hahahahaha TOTALLY perfect.

First, forgive me: I listen to a number of classical stations on streaming, KBYU-FM among them. (I beseech a special dispensation of forgiveness from a particular opera lover who shall remain nameless.)

I was listening to a classical station, and I heard an ad (perhaps classified as a "Public Service Announcement?") inviting people to join the Masons, promoting it in terms of fellowship and community service. This was mildly surprising, because years ago admission to Masonry was strictly by invitation only. You had to be prominent in your field to be considered. About 20 years ago, I remember seeing a bumper sticker, with the Masonic square-and-compass, and the cryptic message: "2-B-1-ASK-1."

So, like many such fraternal lodges, Mason membership has been dropping.

This week I heard a Masonic recruitment ad. Then it hit me:

I WAS LISTENING ON KBYU!! That would make for an interesting disconnect: a temple-endowed Mormon going through the Masonic rites.

Imaginary characters can do all the secret magical handshakes they want.