How would you do it? Because i am about to comeback on that scene and press hard for it because i actually need it now.

Good luck with that. You'd be better off getting your spine fused.

Determination has nothing to do with it. If it were possible, feasible, etc.....it would have been done long ago. You're not the first person to want it back.

I suppose you could try some legal route, but you would likely spend more on that than you ever got back from LDS.

Have they ever given money back to a person that is poor in their history? I am definitely going to fix my neck but i dont want to ask family for help while i recover. What if i make a scene in the sacrament meeting to get it back? Haha.

Not tithing money. On rare occasions they help poor members.

I think a bishop helping people with money gets such cash from fast offerings.

Tithing goes straight to SLC, fast as the speed of the banking system can get it there.

Jesus christ i used to think atleast a little bit went to the poor but i guess i was naive and blind.

Badass, it's easier to get virginity back than tithing! The Virgin's Boner.

Hahaha now that made me laugh really loud.

I believe that all that would happen would be no money back and the mormon powers that be in your town would use you as an object lesson to the faithful (and more importantly to any doubters) on what happens when people lose the gift of the Holy McGhost.

Once you had over money that's a gift/donation, that money is no longer yours. The system would suffer if a change in circumstances gave a giver the POWER to take back the gift, in that charities, which are generally seen as blessings in society, would suffer. There might be the occasional charity that would give back a donation, but the mormon church will never do that. After all, it's not the bishop's money, or even the prophet's money; it's ghawd's money!

They will take comfort in the 'knowledge' that if you'd remained faithful, you wouldn't need the money back, and will no doubt include you in their nightly prayers, beseeching ghawd to soften your heart...

But TSCC is not a charity. Nor is it a blessing. It's a curse on society. It's a scam that can't introspect without falling apart. They commit fraud under the color of law.

Thats what i was going to say, is it even a charity? Isnt it pretty well documented that 99% does not go to the poor.

A "charity" doesn't have to spend all or even a majority of its money on "the poor." It can spend donation money on anything that, it can be reasonably argued, is related to its purpose, in this case being a worldwide church with millions of members. Thus ranch land in Florida, it can reasonably be argued, is a part of the church's commercial activities in order to generate more revenue in order to carry out its religious program.

Today I mailed a donation to my alma mater to help support its library. None of that money is for "the poor" at all. It is 100% tax deductible as the university fund is a 501(c)(3) entity and it will use the money for its underlying purpose: in this case, buying books, maintaining the building fabric, buying a new photocopier, whatever it may be.

I see

Libraries don't mess up your head.

Agreed

"That's only your opinion of it."

Won't happen.

Your "tithing money" was used to buy up land in Florida, to build shopping malls, to build ugly temples, and to pay the six-figure-plus "stipends" of church GAs.
It's gone.
You'll never get it back.

Sorry, but that's how it is. No matter how coerced or manipulated you were, it was still a "voluntary donation."
No lawsuit trying to get tithing money back will prevail.

Well what about brute force by public humiliation in a sacrament meeting being loud about how i was deceived by the fraud that i didnt know it was in front of everybody. Would that get them moving?

Sure. It'll get several big guys moving towards you, in order to manhandle you out of the meeting.

It won't get you your tithing back :(

Hahahahaha im doing it it would be so worth it.

If you do that, badassadam, PLEASE have video of it...that would be priceless. LOL...

Hahaha it would be so legendary a video might actually help my cause but i have never been good with that technology of transfering it on youtube.

I hear you and thought maybe if there was a class action lawsuit against the morg for sexual abuse in temple ordinances. We were never told before we went into the temple that someone was going to be touching our naked bodies under the guise of some ancient ritual. Suing for that maybe easier than trying to get tithing back. You can also reach out to Preet Bahama at NYU law school. He was the former US Attorney for the Southern District (NY region) and has a kick ass reputation going after criminals. Even though he's not in that position anymore, you could inquire if he could take on this case. Anyone interested in joining the suit can chip in on funding the legal fees. If there are a million of us in the suit, and we each chip in $10 or $20 dollars, that's good for a legal fund.

I never did the temple thing besides baptisms but i still felt violated and forced when i did them so i think that should count. Hell the whole religion should be sued for people like us especially the children born and forced into it. Our whole minds and lives were ruined literally.

It's used to keep the piss smelling buildings electricity on- enjoy!

You will never, ever, ever get that money back. It is what's known in economics as a "sunk cost" in your life: i.e., a past cost that is permanently lost, and that can never be recovered by any means.

Just imagine if anyone who now disagreed with their former church were granted the right to go back to it many years later and have their donations returned! No judge in America, no legislature, will ever grant that right in any future lifetime I can envision.

TSCC made no promise that you could ever have your money back. You made your donations as a member, and were entitled to the charitable deduction for religious donations.

You lose, always and forever. I'm being very emphatic because I've seen this question several times in the past on this board and the answer, unlike the story of the First Vision, will never change.

Its funny how they can have this shaky and so innocent past but when it comes to the money side they are exact and vipers as if the church was ran by the devil himself or worse.

Remember, even if you had the right to sue TSCC for anything, there is still something in the law call the Statute of Limitations. If you don't file a law suite before the Statue of Limitations has run out, you're out of luck any way. Any judge would through a law suite out if it wasn't filed in a timely fashion.

I see how much time do they allow usually?

For most small claims cases, it is only 1 year.

You will have to check in your state for specifics.

I might be past the year barely.

Over the 36 years in the cult, there were hard times when I went to the bishop for funds and food in the Bishop's Storehouse. I venture to say I got some of my tithing and fast offering funds returned that way. After the economic hit of 2008, the church paid my rent and utilities for 6 months. While it's not perfect, my perspective is I got something back for my money when I was in distress.
But I would contribute now to a legal fund for a class action suit for sexual abuse in the temple if we all chip in small amounts. It's worth an inquiry to a seasoned prosecutor like Preet Bahar or heck, even James Comey. Comey's unemployed now and the publicity from the case would damage the cult.

Thats all i want is help with rent and utilities and i have been talking to a middleman to see if we can get it done because they know i wont step in a church atleast not yet. I did feel abused in the temple but i only did the baptisms but i still fear getting wet because of it everytime i need to get clean i fear the water for some reason.

It's not happening, Badass. There is a remote chance that you might get some help from the bishop, but generally they want things in return -- church attendance, volunteer labor, and tithing. In your shoes, I wouldn't go there.

Did you ever call back Catholic Charities?

I did call two catholic charities and left messages but they didnt call me back. I dont want to go the lds route but there are not a lot of options here in pocatello idaho, i lasted as long as i could on my own money and i thought i would be able to work by now but i definitely cant quite yet. I told the middleman i have been talking to to try and get me help from the church without any strings attached so we will see what happens, i have made it very clear to everybody that i have insane ptsd because of the church and it would probably be best to just mail me a check of some of the money i put in in previous years and leave it at that. I do have a friend in arizona that is willing to help me a little so i am very appreciative of him. I know i shouldnt even entertain the cult but i am stronger than i was before.

I seem to recall that you called one CC office over a weekend. Try again during the work week.

Alright ill try calling them again.

And there's also the issue of the financial aid provided by a bishop coming from fast offerings.

Nobody touches the tithes! They go straight to SLC, as fast as the banking system can get them there.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/16/2017 10:48AM by elderolddog.

Don't waste your time. Ain't going to happen.

As unjust as it is, the law sides with TSCC.

Why do you always have to crush my dreams dave haha.

I'm going to paint a worst case scenario for you.

You show up to the meeting, yell out your "hate" speech, someone dials 911 and lets dispatch record what you say. Sounds of the six guys ejecting you are on tape, you telling them to get their hands off of you, scuffling sounds, chairs knocking over, people shouting, kids crying and screaming.

You're now alone outside, trying to get to your car, holding onto your back, because now it really hurts. The police cruiser, lights only, stops about ten spaces away, police get out, guns drawn and pointed at you. You're ordered to get face down on the pavement, wet or dry, hot or cold.

Oh, and look. You test postive for drugs. Doesn't matter that they're legal; you were "drugged up."

You spend the next several weeks - months in jail, because you can't make bail. Meanwhile, the 911 and other phone recordings of the incident, edited for effect, hit youtube and inevitably, the local news, where all the mormon future jurors can watch them again and again.

Stories hit face book about how "somebody heard" about the gas can and other dangerous items (like a box of nails) that was found in your shed, and that you were planning on blowing the church up. Your internet activity is leaked, "proving" how much you hate the church.

Now the feds want to investigate you as a person whom they can claim was "averted" from committing a "religious hate crime."


At that point, would you think it was worth it to tell a group of local folk that their religion is a fraud?


One of the worst parts is that you have now "proven" how mormons are persecuted, especially by evil apostates, part of the evil world you have joined, just to take drugs and otherwise "sin."


You are a treasured member of this board. It is your choice, but things rarely go like we play them out in our heads.

I know but if you face homelessness anyways may as well go out in style. They owe me more than what money could do anyways. If i get completely healthy then everybody is f#cked and i have no idea why i feel that way but thats the goal. They are all victims in a bubble and those that try to break free and be normal are called crazy for getting out of the cult bubble. They can keep my money i hope for gods sake that all if it went to the poor because that was its intention. And if none of my money went to the poor then may god have mercy on their souls because there may or may not be a god that watches and favors the badass in secret.

As others have mentioned, the law would consider it to be a charitable contribution, which makes it a voluntary gift. Once given, it is the property of the Church to do with it whatever they want. It would take considerable legal wrangling to ever have a hope of getting it back again.

Just wanting it back again wouldn't cut it. "I paid tithing on money that I robbed from a bank," might do it. But not, "I don't like you anymore. I want my money back."

Well there should be a cult law then. Any religion that is proven to be robbing peoples money around the bases of cult rituals that some were unaware of should have their money returned. The cult law starts now, all cults need to return all money taken to build cult buildings with cult rituals. Sounds good to me.

The entire legal system is built on case law. Once it's been decided that cults are allowed, it's pretty much impossible to undecide it. Suing them for damages is a different matter, if you can prove the damage. I'd like to see them sued for breaking up families.

Me as well or mental or physical abuse.

The LDS Church covers their butt on that one. They specifically state that they can do with it what they feel is best.

If you gave to a specific fund, say, a disaster relief fund, and you could prove that they didn't use it for that purpose, then you could possibly ask for a refund.

I think the best you could hope for would be to take the route you are taking and simply ask for help. But I feel certain that any help they might offer would come with strings attached.

They might voice some crap about having enough works stored in your spiritual bank account in order to warrant the amount of help that you're asking for. If you want to make a withdrawal, then you've also got to make a spiritual deposit through your actions.

It's scary when I delve into my past and try to put on my Mormon-think cap again. *shudder*

I shudder as well but i am going to be aggressive as f#ck and i am not doing a damn thing for them. I am going to fight my ass off to stay alive and get healthier.

No refunds of tithing for tscc. You are smart to concentrate on yourself and getting better. Time, determination and hard work will gradually get better.

Why do i get that no returns on tithing is what will bite them in the ass in the end.

Start a business and hire returned missionaries as sales people. You get free training from the mormon church. I know someone who did quite well with that - and had a good laugh at the same time.

Be creative. You can get your money out of the mormons.

Well i am used to how they think, they definitely have that door knocking and talking out of their ass down.

While you won't get your tithing back, what about asking how much you have paid in your life time. Think they would at least be able to tell you that?

I hope they have a record i am curious as well, i know its a decent chunck that would help me right now.

Does any other church return tithes or offerings years later? What about charitable organizations? Do they give money back?

I'm not sure why you would bring the misery that would likely ensue as a result of this onto yourself.

Well i am kind of in a financial jam for real and all other programs can not help me out sooo i could tangle with the devil one last time for thousands of dollars to help me until i can work again.

According to the fine print, you are entitled to a refund if the world ends on Sept 23, 2017 and Jesus didn't rapture you. This offer is null and void if you touch yourself.

Haha aw sh#t why is it always the touching myself thing? God d@mn it im screwed.

Have you tried contacting your local Human Resource Administration and apply for Public Assistance? You can get some rental assistance, food stamps, money for transportation to find a job, cash assistance and Medicaid. They will pay for your utilities, but not phone bill. They will send you to a job training site to look for jobs. You will meet with folks that can help you find work. This path is realistic and doable. Millions of folks do this. There is no shame in asking for help. Bring your id, a copy of your lease, bills, and medical bills, etc. This path is an anchor. And you don't have to bargain with the devil. Stay away from the cult. They will hurt you again. You don't want more disappointment. Move on to find security and some peace elsewhere.

I have done it all. There is barely any assistance in the state of idaho. Have you ever tried to get assistance before? If so was it in the state of idaho? Tell me the secret for getting real help please. Do i have to be a single mom or something to get real help?