After deciding this last week to leave the church, I have to figure out some things with my still TBM wife. She has been very understanding of my point of view, which has been a relief. I no longer want to pay tithing, but my wife does. She doesn't work, so I'm the one earning the money. Has anyone else here been in a similar situation? I guess the fair thing to do is to let her pay tithing on half the money. Any other suggestions?

My TBM wife appears to agree with me now leaving and no tithing or fast will be paid by me (4-5 years now). I also threw away our subscription to the church mags and thought she would complain but hasn't yet (2 months) but the answer will be if she wants them she can pay for them.

She has some inheritance money, of her own, and it sure didn't seem like she paid tithing on that. When it comes to her money for some reason it seems mostly exempt from tithing also (she did pay some when I said I won't pay anymore, I and the Lord (kidding) knows it wasn't a full tithe on her inheritance though even though we know her parents were non tithers)

My wife has not been challenged on tithing in any temple interview yet of course the Bishops wife is one of her best friends.

I talked to her once about divorce over my leaving and her trying to stay active. I was pretty honest I will not put up with any support of mine to a SCAM and would rather get a divorce if she would put the church ahead of our marriage.

We have had a much better relationship than we ever had since that talk. However, will it last ----- only time will tell!

Everyone is different ----- Good luck!

If she doesn't have a personal increase than she is a full-tithe payer.

Done.

Your family now has 10% - 15% more disposable income. Life is good.

This

There is no requirement for a spouse with no income to pay tithing. There is also no requirement for a spouse to pay tithing on what the other spouse earns.

Did I just chiasmus?

Before I had my illumination I had quit paying tithing on what I earned. We kept going into debt each year the exact amount that we paid in tithing. Put my foot down and told her that she could pay on what she earned. She did not like it but lived with it.

all 'Facts' about 'obligations' are correct, But:

your wife might decide differently; her Bp may 'insist' that (in a Community Property state) she's entitled to half of what you earn (And, to Pay Half of the expenses!).

uncoupling from the morg is seldom Easy...

Also, consider the opposite:

if she was the family wage-earner... c/would U insist that (your) half of the income Not be tithed?



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 01/27/2015 08:46PM by GNPE.

I am a SAHM and I have a TBM husband. After a pretty heated discussion, we've agreed to pay tithing on half of our income. I say "our income" because while I'm not employed, I do ALL the cleaning, cooking, driving carpools, 90% of the yard work and almost all the maintenance and repairs on our house that we don't hire out. I generally still have hours left in my work day after my husband calls it a day at his job. My husband benefits from me being a SAHM and I can't always be expected to work for free.

I think your wife should feel that some of your income is hers to use as she wishes, even if she chooses to donate it to the LDS church. It may help her accept you leaving the church if she sees that you're willing to make a compromise.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/27/2015 10:21PM by want2bx.

^

While I completely agree that the church does not need or deserve any part of the family income, I have to say that your wife DOES NOT WORK OUTSIDE THE HOME, but she probably works pretty hard INSIDE THE HOME to make it possible for you to work outside the home.

If you must tithe with your spouse, make sure you get a temple recommend in exchange for your betrothed.

You said:

>> I guess the fair thing to do is to let her pay tithing on half the money. <<

This is just my opinion, but:

What's fair about paying 5% of your income to a church that you no longer belong to, as a sort of extortion to keep your marriage stable? What's fair about that? If she makes no money, and belongs to some church, she has no income to pay a tithe on. You earn that money for your family, not for some irrelevant church.

Imagine if neither of you had ever been members of any church. One day your wife tells you she’s joining some obscure church, and says she’ll be needing 5% of everything you earn to give to her new church, every year. I bet you would be hesitant to go along with such a request.

I don’t think the church deserves any of your money. It’s a racket that verges on extortion. And your marriage is now the leverage they are using to extort from you. LDS doesn’t use that money for any charitable purposes anyway; they use it to give a few men at the top a very wealthy lifestyle. You asked for suggestions, so mine is to not give them a dime. How you go about reconciling that with your wife is a whole other matter. Eye, there’s the rub.

Try this. Let's say you and she agree to go halfies on tithing – so 5%. If she's anything like reasonable, she'll agree to that.

BUT – don't pay as you go. Put the tithing in a separate bank account. Let it sit all year while she thinks about it. Then, at settlement time, she'll be sitting on several thousand dollars. Maybe she'll give it to the church, but maybe she'll suddenly decide that it could be put to better use elsewhere (home improvement, Xmas presents, Paris vacation).

She'll appreciate being empowered to make the decision for herself, while after a year there will be a good chance nothing will go to TSCC.

You can find the stories here but it is documented that a TBM spouse can get a temple recommend and pay $0 towards tithing. They just have to say, you know, paying tithing is a discussion that leads to marital issues. The bishops generally understand, and if they don't you make them understand that it is a problem.

100s of TBMs get their magic temple card and pay $0 money.

In addition, that extra tithing money will be saved in your own account and you can give to your family charity by taking a cruise, or a nice vacation, or buy better clothes, or fund something else.

When all is and done $0 money goes to the church, your finances increase, you can control to whom you want to be charitable to, AND the wife is STILL a full tithe payer and temple recommend holder.

Yes. It is that simple.

I had a comment up above, but I also wanted to weigh in with a nevermo perspective on the whole ‘half your money is mine cause I stay at home' thing. I am a stay at home dad, and my wife earns the money we need to maintain our household. I can ask her for money for anything I need, even ‘fun stuff’ just for me. But if I asked her for 5% of her entire income to give to a church as a tithe, she would put her foot down in a hurry, and that conversation would be over very quickly. Unless you’re wealthy, paying to support a family is no easy ride. Giving it away to some church as an automatic deduction is just foolish and irresponsible to your spouse and children. It really bugs me to see this 'family first' church interfering with peoples marriages in this manner, especially the ones with children. Giving is exactly that ...giving (and we do, when we can, and as we see fit). When it's demanded, though (or extorted), our wallet closes.

Demand to my wife that half her income is mine, as an arrangement so that I can give 5% of it to a church? … she’d punch me, just to knock some sense into me.

Obviously I was being facetious with the punching thing, my wife never punches me, and no one should ever punch anyone. I shouldn’t have to spell that out, but in case I need to, I was in no way suggesting you punch your wife. That should be obvious. I was being facetious.

My point is that stay at home spouses deserving access to the earning spouses income is a recent, very real, and very necessary ‘thought movement’. To hijack this important social issue as a ruse to get money for this unscrupulous church disgusts me. It sets the whole movement back in my opinion. And with that, I’ll bow out of this thread … the whole premise of tithing just makes me angry anyway. Sorry if I’ve offended anyone. Don’t punch anyone, ever.

Valid point: Half of the income does not belong to each spouse, to do whatever they want with. There are bills to be paid.

A Suze Orman type of solution would be to make a budget, and figure out how much is left after you pay for all of your fixed expenses (don't forget about retirement and savings, because those are essential, too). You also need discretionary funds (clothing, food, music lessons, etc). And each spouse should have some of their own funds, assuming there is any money left over. Tithing should really come out of HER money because it's something only she wants. I highly doubt many households have 5% surplus over for each spouse to spend as they choose.

HOWEVER. It's important to get along as you transition out of the church. I think it would be worth it to compromise a bit, and give your wife time to adjust. I predict she'll see the windows of heaven pour out the benefits of 5% more money per month, and maybe that will help her feel better about it. Maybe you can make a point to use that money for some things everyone can enjoy at home.

What could you do with that extra 5%?

I would pay $0, nada, nothing. Why pay anything to assist a fraud?

Although we are legally a team, each of us enjoying 50% of our collective stuff, I have said I will not allow tithing on any percentage of our income. My decision was based on my insistence that LDS tithing is not a charitable donation, but a membership payment to a wealthy corporation, a game I was just going to play. Even active LDS member Jon Huntsman, Sr. has said this.

Upon my resignation in 2009, DW's first bishop assessed her an arbitrary figure of $200/month in order to maintain a temple recommend, and she struggled with his and my harsh treatment. I told her she could declare herself a non-tithe payer per church instructions and keep her recommend, and she finally did that.

We are in a different location now, and newer bishop doesn't give the tough-love approach of, "Sure, you have no income, but you have to pay $200 from somewhere. Where's your faith?" But now she has a small job again and pays her 10% from it.