Last months I greeted the HTs when they arrived, an late-50s guy with 17 year-old chirpy son. (DW wife, on account of being married to a backslider, has to be taught by HP. You may know the drill.) I did it again last night. Iremained cordial throughout, but it was hard not to engage with snarkiness.

The lesson was read off of the home teacher's smartphone, and was about how President Monson had the balls (he didn't say "balls," "bollocks," or "nads") to give up a Navy commission because it might interfere with his bishopric meetings and might have to drill on Sundays. And that proved that the Lord blesses us if we tell even the military that we can't work on Sundays, and we might even become prophet some day.

I countered with a story by former LDS Commandant of the Coast Guard, 4-star Admiral Paul A. Yost, Jr., whom I heard twice speak at an annual all-military fireside in the DC area. His message was 180 degrees from old man Monson. His premise:

1. The military needs LDS.

2. As a good LDS, you should provide only the best example, be there for all activities and support the military or not be in it.

3. Adm. Yost said he never had patience for LDS people who insisted they couldn't report for certain formations because of "church and family," and LDS guys would find themelves not getting promoted and having to leave the Coast Guard if they did that.

I figure it's good to have an opposing view, if you can find one, from another LDS figure.

Afterward, DW asked me why I had begun attending the HT lessons, and I said--possible with a snarky tone (I hope not)--that "obviously the lessons need a bit of policing." She didn't like the answer, but I'm going to keep on doing it.

As a side note, I notice that they otherwise ignore me. They ask only DW if it would be okay to have a prayer, then ask her to choose someone.

My last HT deal was 35 years ago with a HP....and we had all backsliders, including me. He thought having me along would bring me back to the church...yea right. I felt sorry for the family's that had to put up with the clueless asshole.

RB

You know that part of a movie where everything seems rather predictable...then there is THE PLOT TWIST?

YOU are the PLOT TWIST:)

RMM

Curious, did DW ask you to give the prayer? :)

Great job you did...

She knows the consequences of asking me to pray, so she doesn't. First off, I don't really pray. More importantly, I do not pray Mormon-style, which is horrifying to Mormons. Nothing mortifies a Mormon like hearing someone else's prayer. I need to come up with my own style, like cupping my hands Muslim-style instead of folding my arms, then maybe chanting my prayer Orthodox style whilst gazing heavenward.

Back to short answer: No, she would never ask.

But truly need one for this: ^^^^^



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/26/2015 04:32PM by Twinker.

Haha...this reminded me of our last visit to my TBM in laws a few months ago. Of course anyone who stays at their house has to participate in family prayer. During every one of these prayers, our son with down syndrome would start off kneeling with his hands in front of him, palms together...not folded as mormons do. Then during the prayer he would lean forward, put his palms on the floor and then raise up and down from the waist/hips, raising and lowering his arms. Then at the end of each prayer, he would do the catholic sign of the cross. It was nice to see how observant he has been during his volunteer jobs at several charities of different denominations :)

How about davening like Orthodox Jews do at the Wailing Wall where they rock back & forth while reciting the prayers?

Or raising your hands high above your head, then repeating three times the words "Oh God, hear the words of my mouth", while lowering your hands.

I'm old school. I'd have to shout "Pay! Lay! Ale!" (repeated three times).

Love the "lesson" you presented to the HT!

When I was not active, hadn't yet formally resigned, I invited the RS visiting teachers into my home. I looked upon it as an opportunity to get to know my neighbors better, always steering the conversation from church stuff and only allowing them to leave a written message, which I promptly tore up when they left.

I've often hoped that my visit with these neighbors was a reprieve for them from how their VT usually happened.

Hell, maybe my home was their fav!

According to LDS Priesthood etiquette, your HT's violated protocol. Even if your are not a member or are inactive, they were supposed to ask you first if you wanted to call upon someone to pray or if you would defer to your DW.

I'm not a believer. I'm just pointing out what protocol is. It's their rule, not mine.

Agree, but it's actually more than etiquette, it's their law of the priesthood that the patriarch of the family is priesthood head of the home. They are violating their oath and covenant of the priesthood.

Heh -- I like your style OP.

I've been housebound and bored today with a chronic condition flaring (sucks).

I'm burned out on movies and reading/typing has been a bit tricky, so now I'm half tempted to invite the HTs over from the ward that's been mildly harassing me via mail/phone the past few years...just to gently mess with them a little.

Definitely feeling grumpy today.

I think it's time for a glass of wine instead...

A toast to better days ahead. And, let the sky be the limit to things that will make your feel better.

Don't you think it a bit patriarchal (sexist) to think you have any right to censor or monitor what your dw hears from or says to her HTers?

If I were you dw, I'd be plenty mad (specially at the passive agressive stuff) (though I do think it entertaining that they ignore you even though you remain the patriarch in the home according to your wife's theology).

The label is "home teaching." They are supposed to bring the so-called "message," such that it is, to all members of the family. I am a part of this home. I must therefore also have a say in what is brought into it and taught. When distilled down, the premise behind this exceedingly simplistic story was, "Don't work on Sundays, even if you're a member of the Armed Forces, and you just may become president of the church." One must say something, and one did. Fortunately, one had a fitting story.

Mormons teach false doctrines and offer only vapid stories as incoherent "proof" that a man is a prophet, that an alleged act happened, that something is true or false. I challenge those things. As DH to DW, it is my duty. I'm hoping she would return the favor.

This is my year of hard questions, and my participation in the last two HT sessions is a part of this. I am starting a blog dealing with hard questions, specifically directed Mormonism and at how we would always be better off by asking hard questions rather than by accepting things either second-hand or on the basis of perceived authority. When I have things better solidified I will kick this off, beginning in my own home. I had hoped to get it all done to kick it off by Jan 1, but was unable to do so.

The year of hard questions. Great, cludgie!

(I also liked "One must say something, and one did. Fortunately, one had a fitting story")

I love that impersonal third-person. "On parle Francais." "Es kommt ein Auto!"

Richtig.

cludgie Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The label is "home teaching." They are supposed to
> bring the so-called "message," such that it is, to
> all members of the family. I am a part of this
> home. I must therefore also have a say in what is
> brought into it and taught. When distilled down,
> the premise behind this exceedingly simplistic
> story was, "Don't work on Sundays, even if you're
> a member of the Armed Forces, and you just may
> become president of the church." One must say
> something, and one did. Fortunately, one had a
> fitting story.
>
I wonder what Steve Young would have become had he told the NFL years ago that he couldn't play on Sundays?

Home teaching is for the family, not just the wife. He has every right to be there. If it were a VT lesson, that is more for the women.

If someone comes in to my home, I have every right to listen and comment on what they are peddling. As does my wife. Although we may not always agree. We both have the right to listen and comment as we see fit. Nothing sexist about that.

And besides, "lolly 18" asked that ridiculous question, "Don't you think it is a bit patriarchal (sexist)...?" The LDS church is patriarchal (sexist). Patriarchy is part of its fundamental doctrine, the stated reason for which only men have the priesthood. Women are to be "mothers in Zion," stay at home, make babies and banana bread.

The great contradiction in my scenario is that, on the one hand, I AM the patriarch in the home, and, on the other, I'm NOT the patriarch in the home.

I once knew a 'Lolly'. She was a stripper in Vegas, married to friend of mine.

Me too. And she was a cocktail waitress.

I always think of lolly weed when I see the name lolly.

While I might be mad at my dh doing that, I would be so grateful that he cared that much about me, and hopefully you will finally bring your wife out too. Someday she will appreciate it.

I'm sorry, this is the only lingo I haven't figured out yet- What does 'DH/DW' mean? and is there a reference somewhere on the board? I think I've figured out everything else, but not that.

Dear husband/dear wife

This thread is the best thing that has happened to my day so far. I love the idea of the year of hard questions btw.

Thanks for the clarification. I thought maybe in some context people meant it as 'divorced wife/ divorced husband' cause the things they said didn't seem very nice.

Funny as I found your story, it also strikes me as paternalistic. I'd be pissed if my husband pulled a similar stunt.

*sighs* I'll be pulling many more.

I'm not sure why standing up for your beliefs in your own home is a male thing that deserves a paternalistic label. That seems a sexist criticism.

It does, however, make me fear for your marriage. How does your wife feel about asking the hard questions?