It's one of those situations where the facade of love and goodness has one the whole family over. We're all convinced that we have a special goody good family and it's all thanks to the restored gospel.

The truth is, some of us have suffered silently, and he has suffered the most, i felt. I'm still undercover as an active TBM, but I finally reached out to him insofar as to question his going on a mission and to criticize our family dynamics with all the words that have been brooding in my mind about it these last 26 years.

Excerpts from his reply below. I have never spoken to him like this before.

"It really means a lot, like A LOT, that you said these things. I can hide my feelings pretty well. That's why I usually look indifferent about everything around me. On the inside I constantly think about the things that I don't want to talk about because I'm afraid of what everyone else will think. You're right, everyone has these high expectations for us
and I'm scared.

I really don't want to serve a mission because I've never really studied enough for myself to really know these things. I can give you a very general answer and beat around the bush but there's a lot of questions that I won't be able to answer even if I study really hard and cram everything while I'm in the MTC.

I've always said that going on a mission is what I really want but really I only wanted it for me because everyone said a mission is so great.

I didn't prepare myself for a mission when everyone said that I should. I just did what I wanted to do. [What ever made me happy at that moment].

I'm not ready for a mission and I'm really not sure exactly if that's what I want. Sure, somewhere out there is a person(s) waiting for me to come into their life and introduce the gospel so that the can have and feel the love of Christ. If they are really ready then someone will do just that. It doesn't have to be me.

Everyone tells everyone what to do. That's apart of life. Well guess what, I don't want to do that I want to do this and be a snobby little brat because I'm not doing what you want. That's kinda how I feel.

...

Now that the mission is so close for me and I'm almost done with my papers to send them in, I almost want to do it to see where I would go but to be completely honest, I don't think I can handle it. I don't know if I really want to go. And the way we were raised is tearing me apart because this is what I'm supposed to do.
And I don't want it"

**************************

I don't know what to say next. This deference every member of our family has for all checkpoints Mormon has destroyed our ability to share real feelings with each other. We're not the family we once were; now we're much more playful and giddy, but it still feels shallow, because we never really talked and gave closure to how we were before.

I came back from my mission emotionally devastated, and I'm afraid he and I are chips from the same block. Several weeks before I left, my mother confronted me and told me if I didn't serve an honorable full-time mission, not to come back. I didn't have the emotional confidence then to digest that threat. As a family, I'd say we have a history of codependency and severe helicopter parenting between the parents and the kids, and much of it has to do with the gospel being the reigning law under our roof. I served a mission, but whenever I began to doubt, my mind went to that place where I realized what the gospel had done to my family.

I came home feeling like a failure, distraught, and fell into a cycle of shame-induced porn addiction that broke my already then-strained will to live.

I don't know whether is better for my brother: to go, so he can meet the social expectations but suffer the roller coaster of a mission, or to stay and deal with the repercussions. The fallout with the extended family would be tremendous. We all have a semblance of closeness to each other, even with the extended family. They would not handle this the best, and I'm not sure my brother could handle the accusatory social proof he would receive in exchange for thinking for himself.

Help me help him. What on earth can I do or say? I'm a world away from home right now.

If he does choose not to go, I had figured it would be as good a time as ever to finally come out about my apostasy and speak my mind on a hundred different things. My parents are not bad people, but this gospel-motivated emotional codependency is hurting us all.

I had half-hoped, when I was studying alone, to win over my family. Now that I've connected with the Exmo community and reached out to several apostate friends and family, I know that never goes over very well. I'm willing to sacrifice my place at school here and with my family to speak up for my brother, and I have no idea how severe the falling out will be.

My brother sounds like he still believes (not that any of us had a big choice in the matter growing up. My parents succeeded in the illusion that our love was a product of the gospel and to return it had to take the form of building the kingdom). Questioning the gospel is something that has never happened to close to my parents before than me. Much of their self-esteem and sense of accomplishment rides on my siblings and I meeting expectations.

Advice?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/26/2015 01:05AM by Cold-Dodger.

You have quite an untenable position. Knowing how your mission affected you, if you had an older brother who could have kept you from going, would you have wanted him to warn you?

Can your brother stand up to the scrutiny without involving you-so you don't risk getting kicked out of school? He might be told to fake it/a testimony will magically happen on his mission...

Is he expected to attend the same school/has he applied anywhere else? Can he transfer $ saved for the mission to school and becoming independent?

There are others here more qualified to advise you with this dilemma. Just wanted you to know you're not twisting in the wind-that others care and wish you and your brother the best possible outcome.

One of the large bldgs at your school is named after my relative. Sorry, dude. Good luck to you.

Perhaps by writing down first what you really want to tell him, it will help you sort this out. Writing helps me organize my thoughts - thoughts which often fly all over the place, thinking of this scenario and that scenario.

I personally think that honesty is the best policy, but often timing for this honesty is a factor as well as considering where the other person is on their journey.

Sending both of you (((hugs)), hugs always help!.

You’ve done it again Cold-Dodger, like I said to you once before, your OP’s have a way of cutting through to me and relaying the anguish Mormonism can place upon a person and their family. Your tearing my heart out here dude, and I wish I could help you more, but all I can do is try to reflect back to you a few things I heard you say.

>> I'm willing to sacrifice my place at school here and with my family to speak up for my brother <<

Be careful sacrificing your own situation to save someone else. While this is a very noble gesture, it ignores the idea that your brother has his own path to travel in life, that it’s his journey, not yours. Sacrificing yourself is a big decision; just think it through before you do something like this. Would your brother even want that of you?


You say, regarding your parents:

>> Much of their self-esteem and sense of accomplishment rides on my siblings and I meeting expectations. <<

You do realize this is not healthy, don’t you? It is not the parent’s role to live their lives through their children. Don’t worry too much about making sure they are ok. They are the grown ups, it’s not your role to protect them from themselves. That’s what they are supposed to be doing for you and your siblings. One of the issues you are facing is a timing issue. That’s one of the problems I see. But when the time does come, don’t people-please your parents. While I’m sure they are nice people, they are placing unfair expectations on you and your siblings. And in case you don’t see that, I’ll remind you your mother said the following to you:

>> if I didn't serve an honorable full-time mission, not to come back. <<

That’s pretty harsh manipulation dude. I know you love her; of course you do …she’s your mom. But from the outside looking in, I advise that you don’t spend your life protecting her feelings by living your whole life for just for her. That wasn’t a nice threat she made, although I understand that it is more likely just the Mormonism speaking through her

These are some of the things I felt I could reflect back about what you wrote. Honestly, the way you talk about how major the fallout with family would be, and how young your brother probably is, it might be better to serve a mission if the alternative is going to render him disowned and homeless. Maybe you guys need to get a bit more independent in your lives before you ‘come out’ to your parents. Maybe it’s like a lesser of two evils sort of thing; a timing thing. I know a mission really wrecks a person, but you did survive. What might the alternative of your brother not going on a mission truly look like? That's something to weigh.

That’s all I can think of to say right now Cold-Dodger. Do take care, my thoughts are wishing you all the best as you grapple with this dilemma. Stay strong.

That's why the MTC is such a mind-drilling place.
They have to shake these thoughts out of them.
Pretty soon, he'll be marching off with the best of them. :(

It will help fill in his picture of reality. It may take a lot of guilt off his shoulders too. He's trapped in a closed system now.

Like torturednevermo said upthread, this one broke my heart too.

OP, the only thing I can think of is that after reading it, it sounds like your brother feels he can trust you. That's important, and while for various reasons you might not be in a position to "save" him or even help him resist pressure to go when he really doesn't want to, you can still let him know that you'll always be there to listen if he's in disagreement with what the church says he needs to be doing.

Even though he's young it's still his life now and if he's going to start finding more courage to follow his own path he may find a lot of strength from having someone trusted he can talk to. Keeping the door open is important but it will be a balancing act due to what you've shared about your family dynamics.

I recognize that silly/giddy 'close' but shallow quality you referenced -- all too well -- and your mother's threat to you about going on your mission really hurts to read about. It's so hard when the level of identity enmeshment with TSCC gets this serious - which is all too often. My relationship with my mom has never been quite the same since I left - it's ok, not bad, but the real intimacy and trust shared with me - her oldest daughter - has been stunted and muted due to her belief system and little else.

I never went on a mission and was very lucky, with the support of one ex-mo parent, to be able to make my own break at 18 over 25 years ago. I wish I had something more useful to say. Just know that my heart goes out to you and your brother.

^ This . ^

frogdogs has brought up a good point. Being there for your brother as an intellectual confidant holds tremendous value. Sometimes, just knowing that someone else understands, and can validates our feelings toward a tough situation, will give us the strength we need to soldier on. Feeling like you’re all alone in a mad, mad world is what often leads to bewilderment and despair. Just letting your brother know that he’s not alone in his struggles will probably help to alleviate some of his suffering more than you realize. It won’t eliminate it, but it can make it more bearable. It will give him confidence. "Big brother understands me, I'm not alone!"

Have him read this voluminous thread from another site:

http://www.postmormon.org/exp_e/index.php/discussions/viewthread/18763/

It's chock full of information on how to survive, or even thrive, on a mission!

Sounds like he needs more time before putting papers in. Some have had success in stalling for time. Hope he can do that.

Be supportive. Tell him you'll stand with him if he backs out. You stand with him next to mom, Dad, the Bish and the SP. The answer is no and your brother will turn out just fine.

Tell him what you told us about what mom told you about coming home dishonorable. Would Christ do that? Let him know that thousands are opting out and are coming home early. Opting out up front is far better than coming home (or not in this case as mommy won't allow it) early with a dishonorable church mission discharge.

Be honest. He'll need a safe person to help shore himself up. It's not as lonely a road as he thinks.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/26/2015 05:06PM by AmIDarkNow?.

I think at this point you owe your brother the truth -- the truth about your own mission and its long-lasting effects on you, and the truth about the church. I would also share with him that Thomas Monson did not go on a mission, and about half of the top 15 did not go on missions.

Someone above said that you should think carefully before you sacrifice your own situation to help your brother -- and I agree. But I want to say this -- my older brother sacrificed mightily for me and he SAVED me in every possible way. When my father was dying he moved 6,000 miles to take charge and to provide a home for me. He sacrificed his girlfriend, his short-term happiness, his convenience, and often his money. He has been by far the most important person in my life (his wife is right up there as well.) I consider him to be one of the finest men with which God has blessed this planet. And thank goodness, life has rewarded his kindness, his responsibility, and his deep sense of duty.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that this could be a pivotal, character-building event in your life. Be there for your brother and consider your options.

You can be who you are NOW and endure the consequences, or you can be who someone ELSE wants you to be ... and endure worse consequences of living someone else's life agenda instead of your own.

The most valuable gift you can give to those close to you is to live as your own true, authentic self ... as much as you can.

When you live authentically, you automatically serve as a clear mirror for those close to you. They will experience their own character and core values reflected right back in their faces. Initially, it will most likely manifest as anger and rejection of you personally, but at some point they will end up respecting and admiring you for being honest and true with them. (Caveat: Maybe not in this lifetime ... but eventually for sure.)

We all get to make our choice when we come to a fork in the Road of Life. Here is a litmus test to help you choose:

- One of the forks in the road requires more Courage and engenders more Fear of Consequences (like immediate rejection, pain and suffering).

- The other fork requires less (or no) Courage with no immediate (external) negative consequences. The (external) negative consequences are postponed to the future when you get to pay the price for taking the easy road. The INTERNAL negative consequences, however, are immediate. You realize you betrayed your own true self. You get to live disappointed with yourself until you eventually correct your 'mistake' of taking the low, easy road instead of the high, Courageous route.

Life is very patient with us. We get to choose whether to learn our lesson now, or put it off until later. Either choice is OK. We get to either muster the Heart and Courage to take the shorter, more daunting road, or take the easier path and suffer longer until we can't stand the pain any longer.

Here is a Life Maxim: The discomfort and suffering you endure for making the Courageous choice NOW pales in comparison to what you will have to endure later on if you choose the easier path.

=========

That's my two cents worth ... all made up.

I am currently reading Michael Newton's second book "Destiny of Souls". The insights he shares with me, his reader, are simply priceless. I highly recommend everyone to first read 'Journey of Souls' and then 'Destiny of Souls'. These books are Life Changers ... the best literature on the planet for understanding the Human Condition aka YOUR Condition ... if you are in a place to set aside your current beliefs long enough to let something new and exciting into you psyche.

Cold-Dodger Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> My parents succeeded in the illusion that our
> love was a product of the gospel and to return it
> had to take the form of building the kingdom).
> Questioning the gospel is something that has never
> happened to close to my parents before than me.
> Much of their self-esteem and sense of
> accomplishment rides on my siblings and I meeting
> expectations.

Translation: We only love your Mormon worthiness. Without
that we don't love you.

And they claim the the Church "strengthens" families.

After I went exmo (age 30) and dashed my parents' dreams for me, my Dad said about me:

"He once showed so much promise."

I'm betting if you flat out asked your parents if they loved the church or their children the most, they'd say church. Mine did.

Ask them if they had to choose between the two, which would they choose?

The answer to that from my parents set me free in my early 30's. I wish i'd asked them earlier in my life. I wouldn't have wasted all that time and energy trying to get approval that wasn't possible to get.

>> I wish i'd asked them earlier in my life. I wouldn't have wasted all that time and energy trying to get approval that wasn't possible to get. <<

That's the second time you've done that this week. My life exactly.
Are you sure you aren't me? Am I bi-locating again?

Thanks again for the comfort I find in your words madalice.

That is so sad, Madalice. There is no question in my mind that my parents would have chosen family over their (non-Mormon) church.

I understand exactly what you mean. Successful career, good person... It was meaningless to my parents since I left the church. Approval was never going to happen.

My parents chose the church over family (some of us) every time.

Thanks for all the advice. It'll help.

Every LDS young man or woman should be asked if they want to go on a mission. And if they say no, there should be zero repercussions. That was the case with me and my brother. And life went on, and we got our education and went out into the world mad made it a better place.

Ron Burr

Hi Dodger,

If you love your brother--and I know that you do--let him make his own decisions and learn from them. Be there to support him if he asks you for help, but don't become a helicopter brother, thus mimicking your helicopter parents. Your brother has to find his own way, and he will.

I believe that he should go on his mission. He's not yet ready to leave the Church or to confront the family. He's too young, and instability at this crucial juncture in his life could set him off in the wrong direction, from which he might never completely recover.

You've got to be pragmatic. Obviously, the Church is false, but your brother doesn't know this fully yet. By the time that he finishes his mission, or no later than one year later, he'll know the truth. To ask him to make drastic changes now that would have a terrible impact on his life for no reasonable gain doesn't make sense.

Obviously, you don't want your brother to waste two years of his life and live according to lies encoded as dogma, but unless your brother learns the truth for himself, nothing that you can do will ultimately persuade him. Love him enough to let him have his own experiences and make his own decisions. Love him enough to allow him to make his own mistakes and experience his own victories. Don't live your life through him as if you were being given a second chance. Focus on your own life. Be ready to help him if he asks for it. But don't interfere. It could have a terrible effect that you can't predict.

Your brother will come around. Meanwhile, let him gain the experiences that he needs in order to become a fully independent--actually, interdependent--person. Just support him, rather than expecting him to blindly do what you'd do. Give him a chance to learn and grow. The best way out of the Church is through the missionary program. Remember that.

Don't worry about him. He'll be all right. Focus on your own life. The time will come to leave, should he choose that, but it has to be his choice, and that time is not yet.

Best,

Steve