Posted by:
steve benson
(
)
Date: May 22, 2017 02:52AM
for another church. At least it's not when the Mormon Church's Quorum of the Elves aren't speaking for attribution.
Put another way, they say: "Psssssst. It's not a celestially-decapitating capital offense under LDS law to abandon the 'One And Only True Church' for another denomination from the pre-Joseph Smith Dark Ages of the Devil."
Or so privately confessed a living fossil LDS apostle.
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DOES OR DOES NOT THE MORMON CHURCH EXCOMMUNICATE ITS MEMBERS FOR JOINING OTHER FAITHS?
In a previous thread, RfM poster "Tired of Wor" claimed that the LDS Church does, in fact, consider it official grounds for excommunication if members of the LDS faith opt out, in order to opt in to other churches:
"Subject: Church is excommunicating people who join other churches"
Date: Nov 16, 19:03
Author: 'Tired of Wor'
"I asked a friend of mine about this. He checked with a Bishopric member who looked at the 'CHI' ['Church Handbook of Instructions'] and found that it indeed does allow for excommunication of those who join other churches.
"Since he has also become Catholic, he is not sure if he is going to resign or wait to see if his local Bishopric acts. His wife and children are all active Mormons even though he converted to Catholicism. I am in the same boat as he is with my family!"
Wrong--at least according to waffling Mormon apostle Dallin H. Oaks
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MORMON APOSTLE DALLIN OAKS INSISTS THAT THE LDS CHURCH DOES NOT EXCOMMUNICATE ITS MEMBERS WHO LEAVE TO JOIN OTHER RELIGIONS
In a closed-door, off-the-record conversation I had in the LDS Church Administration Building offices of fellow apostle Neal Maxwell on 24 September 1993, Oaks claimed that the Mormon Church does not regard abandoning the LDS religion in favor of another demonination as grounds, in and of itself, for excommunication.
Oaks's declaration came in response to me asking him and Maxwell why Joseph Smith had joined a local Methodist Sunday School in 1828, after being told by God and Jesus Christ in the First Vision not to join any of the churches, given that they were all false.
Oaks said Joseph Smith's "state of knowledge was much deeper than mine" (meaning Oaks's). He said that because, after receiving the First Vision, Smith "could not meet with others of his own faith," he "would want to meet with other Christians." Moreover, Oaks described Smith as a "friendly" person, one who was "interested in sampling what others taught."
Maxwell added that Smith was "social" and "gregarious" and that, at any rate, his joining with the Methodists was "brief."
Oaks noted that just as people were "moving in out and out of marriage in the Utah period," so, too, on the New York frontier during the 1830s, an attitude prevailed requiring "no formal divorce in church membership." Oaks added that, according to the LDS General Handbook of Instructions, "joining other churches is not, by itself, a sign of apostasy."
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CONCLUSION: LEAVING THE "ONE AND ONLY TRUE CHURCH" FOR A FALSE CHURCH IS APPARENTLY NOT GROUNDS FOR EXCOMMUNICATION FROM LDS RANKS
Thus have spoken apostles of the LDS loose-lipped Lord.
The key, it appears, to jumping Mormon ship into another denominational boat without getting the hatchet in the process is to be friendly, sociable and gregarious about it--along with making sure your detour is brief and for sampling purposes only.
When in doubt, just follow the Prophet's example.
Even after coming down through the trees and laying down the law, God and Jesus Christ couldn't keep Joseph Smith from trying to hook up with the Methodists.
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FOOTNOTE ON JOVIAL JOE'S FLIRTING WITH THE METHODISTS AFTER GOD AND JESUS TOLD HIM NOT TO
For those interested in how the necro-magician/founder of God's "One and Only True Church on the Face of the Earth" ended up playing footsies with the Methodists in his post-First Vision years, the following historical account is provided:
"It is interesting to note that as early as 1828 members of the Methodist Church were forced to make a decision with regard to Joseph Smith. Smith had taken steps to join their church, but they felt his dealings in witchcraft made him unfit to be a member.
"In the book 'Inventing Mormonism' we read:
"'In 1879, Joseph and Hiel Lewis, cousins to Joseph’s first wife, Emma Hale, stated that Joseph joined the Methodist Episcopal church or class in Harmony, Pennsylvania, in the summer of 1828. There was disagreement about how long Joseph’s name remained on class rolls. See the articles in the Amboy [Illinois] Journal
It is possible that Joseph attended class with his wife Emma because of the death of their first son on 15 June 1828. That Joseph was a member of the class was not questioned, only the length of time his name remained on the class record.' ('Inventing Mormonism,' Marquardt and Walters, p. 61, n. 49)
"Part of the statement by Joseph and Hiel Lewis reads:
"'He presented himself in a very serious and humble manner, and the minister, not suspecting evil, put his name on the class book, in the absence of some of the official members.' ('The Amboy Journal,' April 30, 1879, p. 1)
"When Joseph Lewis learned of this act, he felt that Smith was not truly repentant of his magic involvement and felt him to be unfit for membership. Mr. Lewis further details the incident:
"'I with Joshua McKune . . . thought it was a disgrace to the church to have a practicing necromancer, a dealer in enchantments and bleeding ghosts in it. So on Sunday we went . . . and talked to him some time . . . Told him that his occupation, habits and moral character were at variance with the discipline . . . that there should have been recantation, confession and at least promised reformation – That he could that day publicly ask that his name be stricken from the class book, or stand investigation. He chose the former, and did that very day make request that his name be taken off the class book.' ('The Amboy Journal,' June 11, 1879, p. 1)
"It is certainly strange that Joseph Smith would try to join the Methodist Church. His attempt to unite with the Methodists, in fact, flies in the face of his claim that he had his First Vision when he was, 'an obscure boy, only between fourteen and fifteen years of age.' In this vision God the Father and His Son Jesus Christ supposedly appeared to him. Those who have read his story will remember that Joseph emphatically stated that the two personages warned him that he should not join any church. Joseph Smith’s own statement about the matter reads as follows: 'I was answered that I must join none of them, for they were all wrong; and the Personage who addressed me said that all their creeds were an abomination in his sight; that those professors were all corrupt; that: "they draw near to me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me, they teach for doctrines the commandments of men, having a form of godliness, but they deny the power thereof."' ('Pearl of Great Price,' Joseph Smith – History 1:19)"
(Source: "Was Joseph Smith a Magician?," in "Salt Lake City Messenger" newsletter, No. 95, April 1999, published by "Utah Lighthouse Ministry")
Bottom line: Different strokes for different Oaks.
Back in 1993, Oaks was privately cutting Joseph Smith~~the prevaricating inventor of God's "One and Only True Church"--a convenient break for joining up with the Methodist Church after explicitly being commmanded in a grove of trees by, double verily, the Mormon God the Father and His Mormon Son Jesus Christ to join no other churches.
Just a few years later, however--in 1998--Oaks was publicly singing a different hymn, as dutifully noted in the Mormon Church's official organ of organized lying, the "Ensign."
Simply put, without the LDS Church to save it, the entire world is up a damned non-Mormonized City Creek without a paddke.
In an April 1998 General Conference sermon reprinted therein entitled, "Have You Been Saved?," Oaks declared:
"What do we say when someone asks us, 'Have you been saved?' This question, so common in the conversation of some Christians, can be puzzling to members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints because it is not our usual way speaking."
Blah, blah, blah. Oaks goes on to define "being saved" in six different ways from Sunday.
Let's concentrate on the one that keeps everyone except Mormons out of full-benefit heaven. Oaks pontificates:
". . . [I]n usage familiar and unique to Latter-day Saints, the words 'saved' and 'salvation' are . . . used to denote exaltation or eternal life (see Abr. 2:11). This is sometimes referred to as the 'fulness of salvation' (Bruce R. McConkie, 'The Mortal Messiah,' 4 vols. [1979–81], 1:242). This salvation requires more than repentance and baptism by appropriate [Mormon] priesthood authority. It also requires the making of sacred [Mormon] covenants, including [Mormon] eternal marriage, in the [Mormon] temples of God, and faithfulness to those [Mormon] covenants by enduring to the end. If we use the word 'salvation' to mean 'exaltation,' it is premature for any of us to say that we have been 'saved' in mortality. That glorious status can only follow the final judgment of Him [the Mormon God] who is the Great Judge of the living and the dead. . . .
"I will conclude by discussing [an] important question members and leaders of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints are asked by others: 'Why do you send missionaries to preach to other Christians?' Sometimes this is asked . . . with resentment. . . .
"Through [our Mormon Church] missionaries and members, the message of the restored [Mormon] gospel is going to all the world. To non-Christians, we witness of [the Mormon] Christ and share the truths and ordinances of His restored [Mormon] gospel. To Christians we do the same. Even if a Christian has been 'saved' in the familiar single sense . . . , we teach that there remains more [Mormon] to be learned and more [Mormon] to be experienced. As President Hinckley recently said, '[We are] not argumentative. We do not debate. We, in effect, simply say to others, "Bring all the good that you have and let us see if we can add [Mormon] to it'('The BYU Experience,' BYU devotional address, 4 Nov. 1997).
"The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints offers all of the children of God the opportunity to learn the fulness of the [Mormon] gospel of [the fully Mormon] Jesus Christ as restored in these latter days. We offer everyone the privilege of receiving all of the ordinances of [Mormon] salvation and [Mormon] exaltation. We invite all to hear this [Mormon] message, and we invite all who receive the confirming witness of the [Mormon] Spirit to heed it.
"These things are true, I testify in the name of [the 100% Mormon] Jesus Christ, amen."
("Have You Been Saved?," by Dajjin H. Oaks, reprint of April 1998 talk, LDS Semi-Annual General Conference, Salt Lake City, Utah, "Ensign," May 1998)
An "ahem" on that "amen," Dallin Hoax (and you, too, Neal Lie-Not-So-Well).
If Joseph Smith's join-up with the Methodist Church after having received the First Vision, no less (where the Mormon Heavenly Father and His Mormon Only Begotten Son Jesus Christ told wandering Joe to stay the hell out of all other religions because they were non-Mormon false, period) had been anything but "brief," poor Joe would not have made it into his Mormon God heaven.
So, what did Joe do? He went and joined up--even after the First Vision--with the Methodist Church. What a helluva a way to go.
Edited 22 time(s). Last edit at 05/22/2017 05:55PM by steve benson.