So I am a newbie on this board, just a few days now. I was so happy to find this site, esp. after so many years of being 'in recovery' and in a place where I want to confront my past and get support.

I have found many interesting posts and supportive people here. But I am also finding a lot of posts that are very hateful and intolerant.

I don't know if they are trolls sent from the GAs to try and deal with the 'dissenters' or just ex-mo's who are still heavily influenced by our tradition of hate and intolerance.

Either way it's disturbing and makes me feel like it's not the best place for me to share personal stories. It certainly doesn't contribute to the creation of a safe space that so many of us desperately need.

And it's disturbing because I can see that so many of these attitudes we were programmed with are influencing people in this negative way still that they seem to be oblivious too. And it brings up some of my own PTSD reminding me of the kinds of intolerant divisive attitudes I had to grow up with. There is this kind of black and white view to everything and us verses them attitude. Maybe now the 'us' and 'them' has shifted but it's like it hardly matters that we left if we are just going to behave in the exact same way.

My goal on this forum is to be honest about my feelings, how being raised LDS still affects me and find others struggling with their own recovery so we can support one another. But I am not intending to be disrespectful and hurtful in the process nor to make fun at another's expense or be hateful.

It's not that easy for me just to ignore those kinds of posts and maybe that's my own problem, but I would imagine it would be hard for others on here as well. And I am guessing there are too many posts to have someone carefully monitor each one.

The dark side of the internet really is the anonymity that is supposed to make us feel safe on forums like this, but for some it just gives them a space to be their worst most monstrous selves and that really can spoil it for the rest of us.

So sadly this may not be the place for me and this may be my last post. So I appreciate those of you who have been welcoming and supportive but the others may just have ruined this enough for me to drive me away (so good job, if that was your intention you can pat yourself on the back for doing 'your duty').

S



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/07/2017 02:00PM by shapeshifter.

If you're logged in, you can report the offending posts so that we can delete them.

Unfortunately the board attracts a number of trolls. Some are bored, some are mentally ill and some get juvenile pleasure from disrupting other people's conversations. Your best bet is to report them and otherwise ignore them.

CZ (admin)

In any case I'm sorry that no one can feel entirely safe here or anywhere.

I try to convince posters to be kind and supportive unless or until someone shows they're clearly not deserving.

Good luck. I hope you decide to buck up and stay. Any worthwhile challenge requires facing up to vulnerabilities.

I'd like to apologise on behalf of the folk who think a young man serving a mission dying, a reply that shocked me as well. I will be as supportive as I can, and thus far, as I've been posting (a few days, granted) I Haven't found any trolls getting at me... But this forum is incredibly active, and has plenty of folk with experience to help, ☺ welcome buddy.

You will find much more subdued discussions at newordermormon dot net. They are a good group that never argues or fights, and most of them are highly educated and very helpful. It sounds like you could use their excellent support.

I've seen a change too,since I first came here. It wasn't like this months ago. I noticed that it's the new post that have been making most of the , in bad taste comments lately.
I've also noticed that some of the ones that posted when I first came , either stopped, or slowed down and I wondered if that was the reason why

I've only seen accusations of hate and intolerance coming from trolls.

I have been here about 20 years, and yes, there has been a notable uptick in intolerance and disrespect towards those who continue to believe in something after they leave Mo-ism.

I take that as it being one of many symptoms of scars and wounds left by the betrayal of trust.

For me, If I sense that there is a post that offends my genteel sensibilities, I use that as a moment to develop---greater tolerance and view that particular comment with an open mind...

See how that works?

An inability to tolerate a wide variety of input is but one symptom of PTSD, and is usually called "avoidance behavior."

I have been where you are - in far too early and fragile a state in my healing journey to tolerate vigorous debate and disagreements; it would have been unhealthy and unhelpful for me to do anything except avoid those situations and conversations which intensified my pain.

Please do whatever is healthy and helpful for you. This is not a PTSD recovery board, nor even a "PTSD-safe" board. There will be far, far too many triggers, ones of which you may not yet even be aware until your triggered state occurs. Depending on if you are in a physically safe environment, and your training in coping with your triggered states, this board may well be "too rowdy" for your condition.

Please understand that I'm offering this in kindness, and in no way judging or "blaming" you for the trauma inflicted on you, resulting in the very normal and human reaction of PTSD.

I'm "pulling" for you, and hope to see you here again, when you are farther along on your journey.

Peace and good wishes to you.

When I first posted here I had simular experiences.

I tried to share some insights from my mormon ancestors journals about certain church events. I was slammed hard because they did not comply with the majority of thought on this board. I never have nor ever shall share those thoughts here. I steer clear of the subject and don't read those threads. I couldn't even get anyone to agree with me that murder, no matter who was killing or being killed was wrong.

I also mentioned in jest about the moon landings being faked. I did so because of mormon prophecy that man will never land on the moon. Hence the landings must be fake.

That generated name calling and rudeness. I almost left for good.

But I stayed and found my place here. I no longer care about the trolls, haters etc. I never met them and never have a desire to interact with them.

It's been over five years and I come here and partake as I desire and ignore the rest.

If you are finding a measure of good here I suggest you hang in there. The good comes with the bad.

There have been some troll posts lately. I have reported the ones that I've seen. I hope that you don't let them deter you.

Having said that, board members often go through a lot of negative feelings after having discovered that they've been lied to by the Mormon church. Some endure terrible fallout from family members, ward members, or friends. As such, this board is a safe place for people to express their angry feelings and to vent. It is also a safe place for people to disagree with one another.

I think most of us have active, believing Mormons in our lives whom we enjoy and respect. That doesn't mean that people can't vent their feelings toward the church on the board.

The board can seem rather rollicking after coming out of Mormonism where "group think" is encouraged.

My view...

Welcome to the real internet world, where people don't always have the same values, sensitivities and views as you.

This board will not be rainbows and puppies for everyone, but it will provide some real insight which is extremely valuable. People come and go. The tone is whatever happens to be the mix of the people posting at the time.

In my view, it is safer to try out your thoughts here and get honest raw comments that help you calibrate before you go out in the real world where relationships impact your life.

Take what you want. Don't worry about controlling others.

Well, we do get our fair share of trolls here, bored or angry Mormons who imagine they're valiant warriors. Onward Smithian Soldiers, with the cross of Joseph.

There are, to be honest, a lot of spitting matches on the board as well. But those typically involve the same posters arguing about the same issues over and over, usually about some social or political topic. Very predictable, and will not involve you unless you actively insert yourself into the middle of them.

Unfortunately, a few here can be less than supportive. Jerk posts are liable to come at any time, and each of us has had to deal with them on occasion. You will quickly discover whose posts are best left unread and ignored.

If you don't feel comfortable enough yet, may I suggest

1. Do more lurking. Get a greater feel for the ebb and flow of the board. You'll figure out what the "hot buttons" are and how to address them in your posts, in order to minimize any potential blowback.

2. You don't have to post each time under your Shapeshifter username. If it's a delicate or sensitive subject, use an anon or throwaway handle. That way, no one knows it's "you." I don't always post as Jesus of Orem; judging from the frequency and variety of anonymous names, many regulars employ this strategy as well.

So there's no pressing need to leave. It's simply a matter of figuring out what to post, when to post it, and possibly as whom. It may take a little while to get everything sorted out, but I think it's worth it.

Hate and Intolerance is why I'm not here often anymore. I pop in now and then, but I can only take so much of toxic behavior. You don't have to have PTSD in order to suffer. The spewing of nastiness destroys the ability of others to recover, and is not excusable. I have been looking around at other recovery boards, but I haven't settled on anything yet.

In my opinion:

I am not a long time poster to RFM but when I came here I found this to be a place of refuge, enlightening, and very informative. Then the planets somehow drifted out of alignment and it became very argumentative here. The hostilities seemed to be everywhere and I stopped opening the door for a while.

For a while I thought that maybe some stalwart mormons thought that if they could get us to fight amongst ourselves, that it would cause enough internal strife that we would dissolve, or something. But I still find solace here and am learning which stones are safe to step on and which are not.

According to Wiki, which is questionable at best, the definition of an Internet Troll is:

In Internet slang, a troll (/ˈtroʊl/, /ˈtrɒl/) is a person who sows discord on the Internet by starting arguments or upsetting people, by posting inflammatory,[1] extraneous, or off-topic messages in an online community (such as a newsgroup, forum, chat room, or blog) with the intent of provoking readers into an emotional response[2] or of otherwise disrupting normal, on-topic discussion,[3] often for the troll's amusement.

Yes, there are trolls here. I've seen them and read what they have written. I try to avoid them, and I never jump into the fray. Please don't leave just yet, think of it as sometimes the coffee has a few grounds in it, but overall the coffee is still delicious to the taste and very desirable.

Simply putting the distasteful and downright bigoted posts that are littered all over this forum as the works of trolls is avoiding the issue if I'm honest.

In the recent month, it's been acceptable to mock people for being white and it's been perfectly acceptable to harass people of different faiths.

There seems to be an '' in '' crowd on this board that thinks itself beyond reproach and that only happens when the forum owners either enable said behavior or turn a blind eye.

This forum has been needing an overhaul for the last couple of years now. It's only going to get worse.

It's been noticed. Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>> In the recent month, it's been acceptable to mock
> people for being white and it's been perfectly
> acceptable to harass people of different faiths.

This is an open board where anyone can post, but I know of no instance where anyone has been mocked for their race without that post being hidden as fast as the mods can get to it...

...and I know of no instance where "people of different faiths" are "harassed" without that post being hidden as fast as the mods can get to it.

Preaching (of ANY religion or religious view) is not allowed here.

Vigorous discussion (also known as: [intellectual] "argument" or "debate") is ENCOURAGED here. If you find intellectual debate personally uncomfortable that is fine...just refrain from reading those threads or posts.

Many people who are in the process of exiting (or have exited) from Mormonism find that they have been trained from childhood to interpret anything less that 100% vigorous approval as "hate," and anything said which is less than 100% agreement as "harassment."

The process of learning, as an adult, to engage in adult-level discussions can initially be very painful, as well as extremely intellectually difficult.

Take it at your own pace, retreat to your own "safe place" as you feel necessary, and always remember that all steps forward (toward adult-level intellectual maturity and ability to debate) COUNT...

...and allow others the same adult levels of latitude as you will, one day, want to claim for yourself.

I'm a death-after-lifer who catches unholy hell from life-after-deathers.

So, it cuts both ways.

If you can't handle the heat, get out of the Hades.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 05/07/2017 08:57PM by steve benson.

It's been noticed. Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Simply putting the distasteful and downright
> bigoted posts that are littered all over this
> forum as the works of trolls is avoiding the issue
> if I'm honest.

True. And the outright, obvious trolls usually have their nonsense removed fairly quickly. They're, ultimately, a non-issue.

> In the recent month, it's been acceptable to mock
> people for being white and it's been perfectly
> acceptable to harass people of different faiths.

The religious aspect has been true for a while on RfM, but now it does seem several clicks worse.

The anti-white comments, however, are new, to the best of my recollection. There is a particular regular poster, who I am going to leave unnamed, who likes to make these. In fairness, those post *did* eventually get deleted. It is still disgusting they were allowed on in the first place.

> There seems to be an '' in '' crowd on this board
> that thinks itself beyond reproach and that only
> happens when the forum owners either enable said
> behavior or turn a blind eye.

I find this one the worst aspect of RfM circa 2017. There are at least a couple "in crowd" types, who as you mention it, get away with routine vitriol, while much lesser comments disappear without a word.

> This forum has been needing an overhaul for the
> last couple of years now. It's only going to get
> worse.

Probably so. I rarely post anymore, but rather lurk and read from time to time. There are a lot of other fora to spend time on these days anyway.

The "regular poster" whose posts were deleted is probably me.

I would ask you, however, to describe what "anti-white" statements I voiced. What I wrote was that it was wrong to make sweeping generalizations about Pakistanis. There was nothing in my opinions that was critical of white people. My posts were deleted because, according to someone who apparently knows, I was critical of a woman who was making--and repeatedly defending--those generalizations. I continue to believe that the deletions were unfair and that it was a mistake to leave the racist posts on the board.

I did, moreover, in a different thread, bemoan comparisons of Mormon population centers with Compton and Detroit. My point, which I stand by now, is that there is an implicit racism in that comparison. Why choose Detroit and Compton as the proof that Mormonism makes for better communities? Why not Appalachia or depressed farming communities? The reason, whether recognized by the poster or not, seems obvious.

I don't know the ethnicity of the people who posted about Pakistanis and about Compton. Their ethnicity is irrelevant. Put bluntly, condemning racism is not the same thing as condemning white people. I'm not sure why that even needs to be said.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/08/2017 11:04AM by steve benson.

We on this board do not agree on every little thing at all times. Then we would be like the stepford posters. One thing we do all agree on is the falseness and destructiveness of tscc.
Welcome! My hope for all of us is that we learn from each other in one way or another and that we make great progress in recovery.

Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 05/07/2017 08:00PM by steve benson.

We on this board do not agree on every little thing at all times. Then we would be like the stepford posters. One thing we do all agree on is the falseness and destructiveness of tscc.
Welcome! My hope for all of us is that we learn from each other in one way or another and that we make great progress in recovery.

And, apparently, we on this board do not always know how to post a message just once. Messed up my dramatic exit. Dammit.

It's worse when mercury is in retrograde. See Steve Benson's post about that.

:^)

I have not seen a post with hate or intolerance in a very long time. If it's there, I have not seen it.

I have seen posts where people "tell me off" and find fault with my position or statements. Yup.

I have seen posts where people disagree with passion. Yup.

I have seen posts from knuckleheads that are just showing off or venting. Yup.

Well, gosh darn, what is that?
Welcome to the Real World where people have a wide variety of opinions and voice them in very different ways.
If that is bothersome, don't read or post on the Internet in the comments section.

Rule #1: Don't take anything personally!
(Second Agreement -- Don Miguel Ruiz -The Four Agreements.)


Whatever happens around you, don’t take it personally… Nothing other people do is because of you. It is because of themselves. All people live in their own dream, in their own mind; they are in a completely different world from the one we live in. When we take something personally, we make the assumption that they know what is in our world, and we try to impose our world on their world.

Even when a situation seems so personal, even if others insult you directly, it has nothing to do with you. What they say, what they do, and the opinions they give are according to the agreements they have in their own minds…Taking things personally makes you easy prey for these predators, the black magicians. They can hook you easily with one little opinion and feed you whatever poison they want, and because you take it personally, you eat it up….


But if you do not take it personally, you are immune in the middle of hell. Immunity in the middle of hell is the gift of this agreement."

There is a very important personal choice that I made a long time ago: I took my power back and owned it.
Once I understood this Universal Truth, reading and posting on the Internet became very easy.

Nothing bothers or upsets me, or is a problem for me unless I allow it. And I don't! It is impossible to force me to "take offense", or to "make" me angry. I don't give anyone that power over me.
I am in charge. I am in the drivers seat.

Don't like what I post,or what someone else posts? You make the choice to either accept that is just another opinion, or to jump in and criticize, or find fault, and rip their position apart.
That's how it works, folks.

The cure? Put on that trusty "Duck Suit" I talk about and let stuff run off your back. The board, the Internet is not some big evil entity out to make your life miserable.

Works for me. Try it, you might like it! :-)

I guess I just have a good radar for the type of post I would enjoy and I avoid the ones that look like I wouldn't be interested.

If I stumble onto something not to my tastes, I quietly back out the door and try a different post.

I don't let it get to me. I simply move to a different topic. It's a busy enough place that I can do that. I've never felt obligated to read everything. I pick and choose.

I think there is much less than in the past, but it is still here at times

Based on the above posts, it would appear to me your observations have been confirmed....

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/08/2017 01:35AM by steve benson.

Rfm is a safe space.

I enjoy this website specifically for the diversity. I have posted very sensitive information and received a variety or responses, some supportive, some not. I appreciate both; I find comfort in the kind and supportive comments, which most are. Those that are not supportive get me thinking about my situation from a different perspective, which helps me grow and mature. Overall, I like this community and have lurked and contributed for several years now.

I have been observing this problem since I arrived myself. I know who the consistent offenders are. If this were my site I would ban them from the site but it isn't my job. I would allow any and all opinions so long they were communicated with a level of respect for others. Some seem incapable of it.

My sentiments exactly. I would give them reasonable warnings, but if they continued with the flaming, I would ban them. There are only a few and most would probably conform if they knew banning would be the consequence,but, as you say, it isnt my board.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/07/2017 10:24PM by bona dea.

I think it's interesting how quick many of the posters were to blame trolls and Mormons. I've been lurking here for over 2 years. There is a lot of intolerance, disrespect, attacks, outright insults, mocking and rudeness by many regular posters on here. It seems if you're in the "in crowd" you can get away with it. New order Mormon is a more respectful place but there are a lot of places that folks can go if this doesn't work for them. I use this site for what I need and rarely post.

Often there are posts mocking Mormon love bombing of investigators and new converts. Many of the posters do the same thing here. So warm and welcoming at first but you can also be attacked ruthlessly for your next post.

My opinion. Will be interesting if I'm flamed for it....

This is called free speech, not flaming.

Dig in and take it; otherwise, you're like "greenhouse Mormons"--the kind who outwardly look good and do well in a controlled environment but who don't have deep roots when it comes to dealing with and weathering opposing points of view. Deep roots are an indication of a successful adaptive response to opposition. You grow stronger when you're faced with it. Stay shallow-rooted, and you're ripped out by the first stiff breeze that comes along.



Edited 6 time(s). Last edit at 05/08/2017 01:23AM by steve benson.

Very Active and Compassionate Activity on the Recovery Board - 2017

NOT... Thanks for confirming Steve. I appreciate it.

yetagain... Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Very Active and Compassionate Activity on the
> Recovery Board - 2017
>
> NOT...

This is the most compassionate group of people I know of on the Internet.

I have been a part of this community for many years...during those years there have been many different things and circumstances which have happened to our members or to their loved ones...and this board has (with NO exceptions that I am aware of) been totally understanding, compassionate, and supportive.

If you think otherwise, yetagain, then you are wrong.

Often the board is compassionate, but there are some exceptions.I was told by a former poster that I had no right to talk about my two year old nephew's death because I was not his mother and couldnt know how a parent felt. Really???. Maybe I wasnt his mom, but I certainly mourned. That is only one example. I am sure posters can think of others. There are some jerks here. They are a minority, but they exist.

bona dea Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Often the board is compassionate, but there are
> some exceptions.I was told by a former poster that
> I had no right to talk about my two year old
> nephew's death because I was not his mother and
> couldnt know how a parent felt. Really???. Maybe I
> wasnt his mom, but I certainly mourned. That is
> only one example. I am sure posters can think of
> others. There are some jerks here. They are a
> minority, but they exist.

I am sorry, bona dea. I do not remember this incident, and I am sorry this happened to you.

:(

You werent mod at the time so need to apologize.If I remember correctly, the post was deleted when I complained. However, the poster remained and said similar things to me and others on a fairly regular basis.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/08/2017 12:25AM by bona dea.

"The sting of the reproach is the truth of it."

Or, if he was around todday: "Tough love. Roll with it."



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 05/08/2017 12:43AM by steve benson.

I was a delicate little flower when I first came here. It took me a long time to toughen up. And it's a work in progress as I'm still too sensitive.

But even I would say that if you think that Benson post was too tough to take you have a long way to go to survive on the Net.

Again, I say that if people are going to rip Eric (board founder/owner) apart stop and think what you're doing. It's an absolute misconception to think he is allowing "hate" and other undesirable content on his board. And to criticize volunteer moderators is beyond the pale. Things get dealt with as and when they have time. They and Eric have been perfectly honest about that. To say they "allow" terrible content is just plain wrong. They can't control what someone writes before it gets posted. So people post. Then their post gets moderated. Most posts stay. Some don't, for whatever reasons. Eric has explained he tries to give wide latitude so as not to stifle personal expression. Too many take advantage and post drivel that doesn't help exmos. When seen by mods and/or reported then it is dealt with. If not done to your satisfaction or expectation, oh well. There may be many behind-the-scenes reasons why. If anybody was getting paid to look after every single thing full time I guess it would be different and they may have time to explain every single decision.

When I see people unfairly or inaccurately criticizing a free resource I get annoyed but also sad. I'd say we should be grateful for what we've got. So many days I'd guess Eric would be happy to say good-bye. Over two decades of it. And the criticism just keeps getting louder.

I'm not saying not to ask questions or not to give an opinion. But the board isn't here mainly for people to criticize it. That seems to be what's foremost on people's minds these days. Sometimes I think some are losing sight of the bigger picture. And that could end in a way they don't intend or will regret.

I have always had the impression that when someone truly is in need of support and information both are found here in abundance. If, for a myriad of possible reasons, we post in need and don't find solace, that is still no reason to complain. Free resource. Busy people. Many in need of support themselves. We're not always in the best position to reach out and help others when we need assistance ourselves.

Maybe the board could be divided up into sections so people can only see the posts they need or like. But what a modding nightmare, I'd imagine. And true enough, this isn't kindergarten. More like the big wide world outside religion and it really wouldn't hurt us to get used to something different from what we're used to. I've never experienced the world coddling me. So it's good to get with that program and not ask for the happy place forever.

Reality bites, sure. But that's more realistic than the alternative. I like peace and love and sappy movies and pleasant endings. But the world and its inhabitants are not mandated to supply that to me according to my specifications due to my unique make-up and needs. I may want that but it might not be the best thing for me. And it's never happened before and I better not hold my breath waiting for it as that would not end well.

I don't mean to sound unsympathetic. I agree with some comments, not with others at all. And I've never thought it was ideal to criticize Eric or RfM. It is what it is. And he never says otherwise. I'm tired of the criticism now. A lot of it is not constructive, accurate or fair.

In my opinion, of course. Which is one vote, I realize.

If I, a reader, am tired of it though, I fear that Eric, who has explained he has major life issues going on and is not here as much as he would like or needs to be, may just pull the plug.

Then we can all reflect on how bad was it really or should we have been more understanding and far less critical. I hope we can preserve this resource by being more realistic and independent. Starting by realizing that the board is not here for us exclusively and can never, with the best intent, be all things to all people all the time. It sounds like that is what some expect.

I'm discouraged.

. . . it's Nightingale.

Thanks for your perceptive observations, Nightingale. :-)

I hope Eric K chooses to hang in there if he can but, if he chooses "to pull the plug," I totally respect and accept his reality and decisions. He's a great mod and a great person (having personally engaged him in both of those realities of his).



Edited 6 time(s). Last edit at 05/08/2017 01:03AM by steve benson.

There was one post recently that really upset me. It was from a regular board member, not a troll. It was a purely political post, not Mormon related nor religion related. It was clearly put up solely to see if it would be taken down (testing the board rules after some discussion about same.)

To me it was as rude as someone who deliberately throws garbage down in a public building because someone else will pick it up. The person who threw it down won't have to.

Modding a board is *work,* and that work should be respected by all who benefit from it. Yes, there will always be trolls. There will always be people who are mentally ill or sociopathic. But everyone else should try to have a care.

Hey, yetagain...

What is your problem? Steve's comments were insightful, appropriate, and we're in no way offensive or rude. He responded to your post; are you offended because he didn't dress it up with a lot of bows and ribbons and Flowery language about how he is oh so sorry for having to contradict your assertion that people here love you one second and then hate you the next?

Jesus. If you really, really think that Steve was flaming you or that what he was saying was out of bounds, then you really don't belong here or anywhere on the internet. Try going to reddit or 4chan (although I don't know why anyone would go there) and see where that gets you.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 05/08/2017 03:17AM by midwestanon.

Let's say that someone were to attend an AA meeting and at the end of someone's getting up and speaking, perhaps very scared and feeling vulnerable, a more well-known and well liked member of the group stood up and said to the person who just spoke "... so what the hell are you doing here, you no good, fucking drunk loser?". Would that be theraputic?

I have guessed (possibly in error) that maybe the Admins allow the insults and attacks to continue as a part of the therapy on the board. If that is the case, the admins should disclose this publicly somewhere here. Either way, I don't think it's healthy to tolerate personal insults here. If anyone wants to bash the church or someone in the church who is not here, that should be okay. Church officials open themselves up to criticism just by accepting their callings. Anonymous members of some board member's family or ward or stake aren't going to feel attacked based on what someone here says.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/08/2017 11:11AM by azsteve.

. . . given his constant, open, virulent, blatant, ranting, insulting and hypocritical political attacks on those he partisanly opposes-- most of which have precious little to do with religion in general or Mormonism in particular.

Which makes his complaint here all the more laughable.



Edited 5 time(s). Last edit at 05/08/2017 11:18AM by steve benson.

pot, kettle & black come to mind

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/08/2017 11:29AM by steve benson.

azsteve: "I have guessed (possibly in error) that maybe the Admins allow the insults and attacks to continue as a part of the therapy on the board."

I am glad to see you acknowledge that your impression about this is erroneous. I have been here long enough to have seen these discussions before and the explanations. I am also obsessive about reading and followng rules (as much as humanly possible, I try). This board is called Recovery and yet it's been explained many times that it is not intended as actual literal 'therapy'. People in need of formal therapy are strongly encouraged to seek it out in real life. Nobody here, Admin or posters, takes responsibility for dispensing literal therapy. Admin folks are not licensed therapists and do not offer psychological services nor do they encourage it from posters; in fact, they actively discourage such messages (or adverts for it). I am not a counsellor or therapist. I would wonder, though, about anyone who offered "insults and attacks" and called it "therapy".

I think you're halfway there to revising your initial impression about there being some kind of deliberate business model that includes a policy of "allowing" attacks and insults, among other undesirable approaches here. Most of the rest of the way is to lose the idea that moderation of this ultra active board is one cohesive, consistent, methodical, continual operation (no offence intended to Eric!) They've explained frequently that it's a series of individuals who mod in general with board rules in mind, as and when they can. I imagine they also look at reports by posters, consider the reported posts and then decide whether something really needs to go or if there is a reason to allow it to stay up. Eric has explained often that he favours the side of allowing people to express themselves, as I've said. That does not purposely ignore "attacks" or "insults".

So what is left is posters learning to go with the ebb and flow of an internet discussion board that cannot possibly be all things to all people at all times. If/when the board is not meeting our personal needs, maybe it's too soon after our exit from the church, maybe we need to get used to public posting, perhaps our particular needs just can't be 100% met in this manner, sometimes we are feeling too fragile, timid or vulnerable to post what we're longing to share or maybe the group here at the time just can't deliver what we're looking for and we really need someone in our lives (therapist, family, friend) to listen to our story and help us find solutions. None of that is the fault of the board or Admin or Eric. It's just the reality of the cards we were dealt (especially BICs) and the situation we are currently in. So much of it, as has been said, depends on our own attitude and impressions and we bear the responsibility to deal with it, or not if we choose to go elsewhere. Perhaps the most satisfying solution re internet boards is to find one more suitable for us (which can change at various stages of our exit process and other life matters) or to find several, each of which can meet a certain need. There is unlikely to be one place that absolutely fits us perfectly. If we do find one, what a bonus. (And especially as so many are free. In which case I hold off on public criticism of them or their mods or founders/owners).


"If that is the case, the admins should disclose this publicly somewhere here."

As above, it is not the case. Admin has absolutely stated this publicly. (I believe it's addressed in the rules posted at the top of this discussion board).


"Either way, I don't think it's healthy to tolerate personal insults here."

Again, see the rules. They state that personal insults are NOT tolerated.

So, in line with what I've already stated, if a comment you report is not deleted, either they haven't seen it (as they have said does happen) or they have chosen to allow it to stand. If you want to know why, you're encouraged to email and ask. Or you can assume that perhaps it's because they deemed the comment to be OK. Then it's up to you to either write and ask why, as said, or read it again a while later (not in the heat of the moment) and see if you still think it's a deliberate "attack" or "personal insult" or is it perhaps your perception or feelings or political leaning or ??? which may be causing you to see something that either isn't there or could be seen in an opposite light by a less biased reader.

I don't generally post personal feelings here (such as "I'm sad, help me") or specific family information (such as "just had a big fight with xyz") as it's not usually my style but also I'm not looking for that kind of help from this board. I also don't want to post when I'm in need of emotional support and take a chance that I won't like how someone might respond.

That is not a statement against RfM. It is how I choose to use the board. If I need personal support, as opposed to having queries about Mormonism or wanting to share reflections about having joined the church, I go somewhere in real life.

That is also not a criticism of those who *do* use RfM to get personal support from other posters. If that works for them, great. I'm always glad to see that.

So. It can be a great resource. It depends what an individual is expecting from it. And what they give back, to some extent, as well.

Thinking there is some grand conspiracy amongst Admin to push some weird kind of vicious "anti-therapy" is an impression that is a long way off reality. I'm just saying so that maybe you can further refine your impression and perhaps get something more positive out of the board, azsteve. Or not. And then maybe that's your answer.

Historically speaking, I don't think we're disproportionately warm and welcoming at first. Both my niece and my wife showed up once and were scared away permanently.

Sometimes, I suspect that we are selected and flamed by TBMs who would like us to believe that we are friendless here.

I've been on this board long enough to see that happen repeatedly (not to mention experiencing my own share of off-board bombardment by TBM flying monkeys).

Inwardly, they're scared, disquieted and doubting. They attack ex-Mos (and open critics of Mormonism before those critics end up voluntarily or involuntarily leaving the LDS loony bin) in a vain and desperate flock-fashion action that is actually a frantic effort on their part to suppress their own deep fears that we may damn well be right about their cult.

I think it's much more about their internal personal demons than it is about boilerplate intolerance and hate.



Edited 10 time(s). Last edit at 05/08/2017 02:07AM by steve benson.

It's all a fekkin conspiracy, man

shapeshifter Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> I don't know if they are trolls sent from the GAs
> to try and deal with the 'dissenters' or just
> ex-mo's who are still heavily influenced by our
> tradition of hate and intolerance.

Don't worry, it's the latter. I'm sure the former has been tried too, but then they switch allegiance after a while ;)

Let's put this topic in some perspective! Many participants here have been violated by the mormon CULT for decades, lives stolen/fortunes lost - some have endured these indignities for 50 plus years! Remember, mormon church GOD mongering for lucre is always unbecoming! Significant Others have had careers abruptly ended/destroyed with a black ball caveat that severely impedes future employment opportunities - as a result, many face financial ruin with little hope of immediate redemption! In addition, a significant number of children have been stolen from many victims of mormonism in divorce proceedings - particularly in Utah where the entire court system is owned/ controlled by this horrific imposition upon human kind! For many affected by the above atrocities, their families soon abandon them because they discovered the truth about the fraud/ ruthless, punitive, vile, GOD CON! As we see, it's dog eat dog treachery in the alleged one true church on earth!

Is anyone else angry with this low-life, mormon creep show masquerading as a church or is it just me? Is there anyone else who wants to expose the madness? Maybe righteous indignation/ striking back at this vile, money grubbing, GOD CON corporation is understandable/ healthy for those so victimized? Over the top, inappropriate remarks can always be monitored by those designated to do so! Conversely, maybe a little tolerance/ understanding are in order here from those who got out with less damage/future baggage rather than accusations of hate/ intolerance? Maybe some of those complaining here are complicit mormon operatives trying to impugn the effectiveness of the many venting victims while minimizing this recovery board in the process? If some are legitimately too sensitive, there are mormon friendly sites willing to take you in! If not, let's try to be more understanding rather than critical of those so mistreated/abused by this despicable, well documented, false religion! As Always, tnurg (GRUNT)