I listen to the pod cast "Infants on Thrones" and if you haven't listened to the glory that is "Infants..." try it. Its really good.

One of the regular contributors on there has posed the question, more than once, "are you happier outside of the church?"

For some reason that question has been hanging out in the back of my mind lately. Maybe its the holidays. Maybe its the fact that I get sad when the weather changes. Maybe its just the point in time I'm in in my life right now. But I've been asking myself- am I REALLY happier?

Yes and no.

I feel freer to choose how to spend my free time, which makes me happy. I am able to decide how to spend the extra 10% I'm saving, which makes me happy. Then there's coffee- which makes me happy. Things like that, the little extra wiggle room in daily life makes me happy.

But then there's the personal relationships that have been permanently damaged that make me so sad. My one sibling and I aren't as close anymore. I can't talk as freely about my ideas to certain family members like I used to without serious repercussions. Issues like "is there an afterlife" still make me very sad to not know, where as before I "knew" there was one.

In some ways I'm happy. In some ways I'm not. Maybe that's life in general. Maybe we're all just trying to figure out how to be happy, aren't we?

So, are you happier outside of the church?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/20/2014 08:16PM by Pil-Latté.

I an really happier without being part of any religion.

I would even be more happy if so many people that are religious would stop forcing their religion on me.

You state it perfectly.

Ron Burr

Oh my god, yes....I told my boyfriend that I want nothing to do with religion for the rest of my life. He was surprised, but I was serious. It's too easy to spot the bad critical thinking, and the fakeness. No way would I ever fall for something like the LDS shit ever again.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/21/2014 06:34AM by peaceinfreedom.

I think I would have ended up drugged and miserable in a padded cell if I had remained in the Mormon trap.

Thankfully, I had the good sense and courage to break out into freedom and sunshine.

Yes, I am able to think for myself and do whatever I feel is right. Other than my wife, no one tells me how I should live my life. My wife just laughs and says she wants me to live up to the potential she saw in me when we were married!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/20/2014 12:59PM by Templar.

I am happier than I have ever been before. Being a Mormon was awful compared to what I get to be and how I get to live now.

If you are sad about personal relationships that have been damaged, I would suggest forming new personal relationships with people who are going to make you happy. If you feel like you can't discuss ideas with some people then move on, drop them, and surround yourself with people that you can discuss ideas with. The things that make you sad are within your power to change.

I'm much happier without being part of any religion.

I haven't had a falling out with my family members over the lds church except for some arguments with my daughter. I have had a falling out with two of my sisters, but it had nothing to do with the lds church. It doesn't take mormonism to create family problems.

Just the thought of pulling on those stupid nylons and sitting through some drivel makes my skin crawl.

What I love this time of year is that I don't have to constantly remind myself that I'm not keeping Christ in the season. I just celebrate.

I am happier without the church in the same way I'd be happier without cancer in my body. Even though the surgery cut out part of my heart, and even though the treatments made me sick, I am definitely glad to have it out of me. I may be weakened, compromised, disoriented, and cautious, but damn it, I'm alive and I'm getting healthier and happier every day.

I'm definitely happier. No more self doubt, self-loathing. No more feeling guilty for every little thing. No more wondering if I was obedient enough to be saved. No more feeling awful for my non-member friends. No more feeling sorry for the misguided apostates I knew. No more anxiety. No more depression.

And I'm not the only one who says this of me. Even TBMs reluctantly admit that I'm happier now than ever before. Of course some of them try to credit it to a new job or new house or more money. But they know why. And someday, I hope they experience it.

Yes, I am.
But it wouldn't matter if I weren't.

The claims of the church are demonstrably false.
That would be the case if I were happier or I weren't.
I can't imagine living a known lie just to attempt to be "happy" -- and I can't see how living a known lie could ever make me "happy." Apparently some people claim it does make them "happy" to live a known lie...I don't believe them. I think they simply are covering things up, and/or abandoning their thinking to someone else.

For sure happier. But it wasn't like that from the beginning. It took several years to transition out of the church and getting used to no longer being a member.

As I was able to adjust I became happier.

I think one of the main sticking points to "happiness" are the relationships and social structure that get disrupted when one leaves the church. If one is able to successfully replace the old Mormon ones with good new ones then it will make all the difference.

I left when I was in the singles ward. EVERYONE I knew was Mormon (family, friends and ward members). I went into a state of depression because I lost my entire "ready made" social structure. I knew few people who weren't Mormon. And I felt extremely awkward and judged when around the old Mormon acquaintances. It really is like losing your "tribe."

Over time though I let go of my old tribe and found a new tribe (or tribes). I confessed to my family (parents & siblings) that I no longer believe and thankfully they all left too. I married a non-Mormon. I made a lot of new friends (social structure) and they are all great people, have a lot of fun and have good times together. I no longer live in Utah and so I rarely have to deal with Mormons or the church.

Everything is more genuine now. And I prefer that. Nothing in THIS life is any better by being Mormon so I no longer worry or live this life for the next. I live this life for THIS LIFE and I am much happier.

Unfortunately, not everyone is as lucky as me and are still stuck in no man's land where they may live in Utah or still have family members and friends who are still more Mormon or don't have a good social structure set up outside of the church. That's why we have RFM.

I can't really say that I'm happier because leaving the church has brought a lot of difficulty and sadness, but I'm definitely more at peace. I'm living more authentically and no longer have to pretend to believe in something that I don't. Living with honesty gives me a sense of freedom that I've never had before.

Pil-Latté Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> In some ways I'm happy. In some ways I'm not.
> Maybe that's life in general.

Yes, that's how life works.

And back when you were a Mormon, you were probably happy in some ways and not in others.

When I was a Mormon, I was about 1% happy. Now I'm about 80% happy. But none of that unhappy 20% is about being in a church I didn't like.

An authentic life relieves me of so much anxiety. So yes. Really happier

I'm so much happier. It was like escaping from a prison I thought I was going to be trapped in for eternity.

As a TBM there was actually someone on the high counsel that would come around and say in his testimony ----- being out of the church/inactive was the most miserable time of his life. He would never explain what he meant. I didn't know him at all so it would have really been interesting to make him explain what he is really saying!

I have never been happier and more content and at peace.

I am happier with me out of the church. That is all that matters for myself. I had some very happy times at church. I had some very happy times with my family but I was never quite as happy with myself as I could be with both of those things.

I chose myself over them. It might not make me as happy as I could be, but it beats being miserable with myself more than I can stand being.

I've known two great forces in my life: oppression and release. I have no idea what happiness is, other than a release from the oppression that gave birth to me.

Yes, happier out.

How we respond to the question would probably vary from day to day.

I do think that the church--and maybe the positive psychology culture--has created unrealistic expectations that we SHOULD be happy all of the time, if we are doing everything 'right'. I think the desire to be happy, or act happy all of the time (in the church) created a surreal "Stepford wife" culture, which may have LOOKED happy but where true emotions were suppressed. It's particularly painful for a person to be depressed in Mormon circles (and some of us are still in Mormon circles). The depressed person tends to be blamed by others and by themselves.

In normal life, there are ups and downs, regardless of how good of a person you are. My personal sense of well being varies with stress, problems, moments of contentment, social connection, or engagement in an activity I love.

We can manipulate our lives in positive ways to create more positive emotions: exercise, getting enough sleep, reducing stress, making time for people and activities we enjoy, etc. And if you feel unhappy a lot of the time, then certainly it would be good to try to make some changes. But realizing that we aren't going to be happy all of the time makes it easier, I think.

I found an interesting link on researchers trying to evaluate happiness:

http://www.centreforconfidence.co.uk/pp/overview.php?p=c2lkPTImdGlkPTAmaWQ9NDE=

And maybe this is just a little warped, but I really enjoyed reading this book. I've read a LOT of positive psychology, and sometimes it gets a little old and this was refreshingly different:

http://www.amazon.com/Bright-Sided-Positive-Thinking-Undermining-America/dp/0312658850/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1419106392&sr=8-1&keywords=ehrenreich+bright-sided

My WORST days outside of the church are better than my BEST days in the church. BY FAR!!!

I do miss my friends, because every friend I've had since I was a teenager have been Mormon.

But yes, there is no question that I am a much happier person without the Church. I'm much happier as a non-religious person entirely. I'm happy in my own skin, for the first time in my life. My life is much healthier now, emotionally.

I can't imagine going in there and sitting through another Sacrament Meeting, a Sunday School class, or Relief Society, where I can be judged and told how imperfect I am. Ugh! Now that's a depressing thought.

I think it would probably be much more difficult for people who have a lot of Mormon family. Gratefully, I have none.

The only thing I really hate is trying to talk to the few friends that I have left and sadly realizing that I will never be able to talk to them without that huge elepant being in the room. I can't fully be myself. If I let out a cuss word, I get told off for it. I can never say things I would dearly love to say, without it being offensive to them.

I hate, hate, hate that religious people demand to have their sensitivities respected, but don't give that same respect back again and they do it by hiding behind their religion. How dare you? It's sacred to them, ya know? It's manipulative and I hate it.

That's the only time that I'm not happy. But that's why I don't talk to them so much anymore.

It means that I've learned to rely much more on my non-religious family for company now, which isn't necessarily a bad thing, but there are times when I do miss my friends. I've found that I'm more of a loner as I get older, so it's okay.

But I'd never fit into their world again anyway. I could go back and pretend to be a Mormon again, just to hold onto my friends, but it would be even worse than trying to avoid the elephant. It would mean living a lie. How happy could I possibly be trying to live like that?

We can't unlearn what we've learned. There's no going backwards, only forwards. Yes, it does mean losing some things and it takes a lot of adjusting, as any big life change does. It's essentially a divorce.

But we really don't have a choice. You just keep moving forward and things gradually do get better.

For me, I'm just relieved to not have to deal with that bs anymore.

YES.

Happiness, for me, is relatively meaningless when examining the state of life. Am I more contented outside of the Mormon church. Broadly, yes. Am I more self-actualized? Damn right I am!

For better and worse, I feel more responsible now over my own life's trajectory. There are no miracles to save me. On top of that, I now feel a greater kinship to mankind now after eschewing the notion that we're all children of a powerful deity; I am a capable, intelligent adult who can meaningfully contribute to my society and to those that may need additional assistance.

Happiness comes and goes, but the control I gained over my own life by leaving the church and religious belief is absolutely priceless.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/20/2014 05:36PM by En Sabah Nur.

I'm introverted, my husband is extroverted. I am so glad I don't have anything to do with the church anymore, including the relationships (which I think are inauthentic and disingenuous). On the other hand, my husband is very happy to be out for every reason one might assume, except for missing the social interaction. And he has plenty of friends and hobbies that have nothing to do with the church, but there's still that one pull for him.

Am I really and truly happier since being out of the church?

I would have to answer with a resounding YES!!!!!!!

I have come to realize that I never believed in the church in my whole life. I was brainwashed into believing that I believed in it but since I have now been out for over 10 years I can look back and see with no bias that I never believed and the only reason I stayed in for so long was because my parents were who brainwashed me and I stayed so long to maintain peace in the family.

I am happy, very very happy, and I seem to get happier with every passing day. I never knew it was possible for a person to be this happy. I am so happy that I am near giddy most of the time. I am exactly the same person I have always been except I am more accepting and less judgmental now. I am more loving to all people and creatures than ever before in my life and I am more aware of how I treat others than ever before in my life. I live my life based on the law of Karma in that I believe that what you put out in the Universe comes back to you so I try to keep most of what I pump out into the Universe positive.

So yeah I am happy since leaving the church. For the first time in my life I know exactly who I am and even better and the most amazing part of all this is that I actually LIKE who I am!!! I am perfectly happy with who I am these days and I like who I am becoming since I left the church and the only regret that I have in my life is that I didn't figure this out sooner in my life. That is a small regret and one that holds no weight in my grand scheme of things so it matters nothing to me. So there is my side of how I feel since leaving the church.

I am much happier out of the church, and the more people that wake up, the happier I am. I don't do anything to get average people out. The church is doing a splendid job destroying itself. I just pop more popcorn.

I'm just happy I have my kids out. They will never take mormonism seriously. They are now too enlightened and they have been too poorly treated by their mormon peers to ever want to be attached to the moron church.

I was pretty happy in my younger days in the church when I didn't have a clue. But with age came experiences that made it harder. In addition, you tend to be given more responsibility, and spend more time at church. Came home with a headache every Sunday there toward the end.


Doesn't really matter though, I just can't do church any more. Can't fake belief. Kids are happier believing in Santa, but at some point you become an adult and can't do that anymore.

Overall, am I happier? That is a resounding YES!

However, my mormon relationships were affected. There are many people who shunned me. Their loss. Bottom line, I still have a good relationship with my parents and family in general. It was tenuous at first but after the first year or so, we've all settled into a new norm.

I did not exit mormonism unscathed. It was an ugly emotional time for about a year. I was angry for much of that time. Even then, I ended up on the side of the line of being much happier.

That being said, I can see where leaving mormonism behind wouldn't equal happiness. Anxiety and chronic depression suck (that is an understatement), and I have too many people in my life who are haunted by those mental disabilities to know that leaving mormonism is not a cure-all. Life is life. There are ups and downs. We all have our unique struggles.

I am of the opinion that we each chose our own path. I am happier. That is all I know.

I was never fully "in". I never pictured a life as depicted for the typical Mormon. I don't really fit in anywhere. But I'm definitely a lot less stressed knowing I'm not guilted and stretched in every direction for calling obligations each week! :)

Yes, I have a lot less to worry about. I do not have to be perfect for a god that allegedly only makes his presence felt through "spirits" or "prophets." I only need to please my family and employers who expect goodness, not divine perfection. Outside the church, I am human and not the alleged Heavenly Father's circus animal.

I actually thought about this out loud the other day. I knew that had I stayed in the church even a month more than I did, I would have killed myself, and that's that. Once I was out, I mean, made up my mind I was done, there was happiness, peace, and relief from depression that I never felt before. The only times I ever felt the depression again, and recurring came from what else? The church. The trickle down effect from leaving. Surrounded by mormonism and I had to delete all my 200 friends on facebook, had to block everything with mormon in it, and had to face loneliness and fear of the afterlife that I'd never felt before, but, I'd never go back. There's no happiness in it, aspects sure, but real sustaining, untainted happiness? No.

I'm happier and I relish in that every moment I realize I'm free.

Y. E. S.

But I admit that I did not have a lot of family complications to deal with. I think that takes the main source of angst and pain out of the picture.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 12/21/2014 01:55PM by Laban's Head.

Yes. Really. VERY happy. Life is life and will always have its ups and downs. But with the church (and religion in general) my life was miserable. I am happy now that I am free from all religion.

I've really enjoyed reading these responses. I'm about a week away from officially resigning, and it has been wonderful to read your brief stories about the ups and downs that come with leaving.

Is that even the right question to ask? I'm not sure it's a valid approach to such a complex issue. Doing the right thing doesn't always lead to immediate happiness, contrary to the claims of the church. It's hard to evaluate whether one is happier for having chosen authenticity and honesty when at the same time there is a huge cost in terms of damaged relationships, loss of stability in one's world view, and sometimes even resulting anxiety and depression.

From what I have expeerienced, lifelong indoctrination fills the mind with miles of prickly vines that must be extracted slowly and painfully over a period of time. They are so twisted and tangled up in there that they cannot easily be removed just by the realization that it's all false.

So, happiness is the end result we all want, but there's a price to be paid in the meantime and none of us really knows how high that price might end up being nor how long it will take before we find real inner peace, which I think ultimately is the core of the happiness we seek.

No in many ways and yes in the most important ways...

I do miss the people I considered friends. I do miss feeling needed in the TSCC arena (everyone gets off on being needed). I don't like being on the endless lists that are reviewed in Bishopric, Ward Council, PEC and presidency meetings.

BUT

There are two relationships you just can't allow any dishonesty:

YOURSELF and your interpretation of GOD.

These relationships encompass truth and life-long (perhaps even eternal) perspectives. I knew I was done with TSCC when my beliefs had changed and I was convinced I could no longer express my true feelings.

Over 60% of the people today on TSCC roles have been taught the story of Mormonism, and have experienced the culture that has matured from Joseph Smith's claims, AND THEY HAVE LEFT.