Recovery Board
: RfM
Recovery from Mormonism (RfM) discussion forum.
I read this article a coupla weeks ago.
http://www.gregtrimble.com/what-every-mormon-really-needs-to-know-about-polygamy/
I know that several posters have commented on it. I don't have the time to compose a comprehensive rebuttal to it, but I want to focus on one statement of Trimble's, for readers who aren't well-read on the issues:
"6. Joseph Smith said, 'I have constantly said no man shall have but one wife at a time, unless the Lord directs otherwise.'”
Mormons frequently quote this passage in order to support the concept that sometimes polygamy is approved/commanded, and sometimes it isn't. Problem is, JOSEPH SMITH NEVER MADE THIS STATEMENT. Historian Richard van Wagoner explains:
"On 5 October 1843 Smith made his most pointed denunciation of plural marriage. Willard Richards, keeper of Smith's personal journal, recorded on this date: 'instruction to try those who were preaching teaching [crossed out in the original] 'practicing' the doctrine of plurality of wives on this law. Joseph forbids it, and the practice thereof.---No man shall have but one wife.'" (As cited in "Mormon Polygamy" A History," p. 63.
Van Wagoner's footnote then shows how this passage was altered after Joseph Smith's death:
"When incorporating Joseph Smith's journal into the 'History of the Church,' Apostle George A. Smith, a cousin, altered this passage to reflect later Mormon thinking: 'Gave instructions to try those persons who were preaching, teaching, or practicing the doctrine of plurality of wives; for, according to the law, I hold the keys of this power in the last days; for there is never but one on earth at a time on whom the power and keys are conferred; and I have constantly said no man shall have but one wife at a time, unless the Lord directs otherwise.'" (HC 6:46.)
The passage quoted above is the ONLY public statement from Joseph Smith during his entire lifetime in which he (apparently) expressed support for the concept of non-monogamous marriage. EVERY OTHER STATEMENT SMITH MADE throughout his life regarding polygamy, plural marriage, "spiritual wifery," or any non-monogamous marriage systems described by any term, were to deny it and to forbid it. But JOSEPH SMITH NEVER MADE THE STATEMENT which Mormon apologists like Greg Trimble regularly cite in their defenses of polygamy.
Richard van Wagoner published his book in 1989---25 years ago. Yet, Mormon apologists like Greg Trimble still repeat this false, altered statement in their defenses of polygamy.
http://www.gregtrimble.com/what-every-mormon-really-needs-to-know-about-polygamy/
I know that several posters have commented on it. I don't have the time to compose a comprehensive rebuttal to it, but I want to focus on one statement of Trimble's, for readers who aren't well-read on the issues:
"6. Joseph Smith said, 'I have constantly said no man shall have but one wife at a time, unless the Lord directs otherwise.'”
Mormons frequently quote this passage in order to support the concept that sometimes polygamy is approved/commanded, and sometimes it isn't. Problem is, JOSEPH SMITH NEVER MADE THIS STATEMENT. Historian Richard van Wagoner explains:
"On 5 October 1843 Smith made his most pointed denunciation of plural marriage. Willard Richards, keeper of Smith's personal journal, recorded on this date: 'instruction to try those who were preaching teaching [crossed out in the original] 'practicing' the doctrine of plurality of wives on this law. Joseph forbids it, and the practice thereof.---No man shall have but one wife.'" (As cited in "Mormon Polygamy" A History," p. 63.
Van Wagoner's footnote then shows how this passage was altered after Joseph Smith's death:
"When incorporating Joseph Smith's journal into the 'History of the Church,' Apostle George A. Smith, a cousin, altered this passage to reflect later Mormon thinking: 'Gave instructions to try those persons who were preaching, teaching, or practicing the doctrine of plurality of wives; for, according to the law, I hold the keys of this power in the last days; for there is never but one on earth at a time on whom the power and keys are conferred; and I have constantly said no man shall have but one wife at a time, unless the Lord directs otherwise.'" (HC 6:46.)
The passage quoted above is the ONLY public statement from Joseph Smith during his entire lifetime in which he (apparently) expressed support for the concept of non-monogamous marriage. EVERY OTHER STATEMENT SMITH MADE throughout his life regarding polygamy, plural marriage, "spiritual wifery," or any non-monogamous marriage systems described by any term, were to deny it and to forbid it. But JOSEPH SMITH NEVER MADE THE STATEMENT which Mormon apologists like Greg Trimble regularly cite in their defenses of polygamy.
Richard van Wagoner published his book in 1989---25 years ago. Yet, Mormon apologists like Greg Trimble still repeat this false, altered statement in their defenses of polygamy.
You are right. With all the alterations to the history, and the tiresome repetitions, it gets complicated, and who likes that?
That's why people just leave it to the faithful soft historians (now including brother Trimble apparently) to interpret for us.
Lame.
That's why people just leave it to the faithful soft historians (now including brother Trimble apparently) to interpret for us.
Lame.
randyj, I believe you and I are about the same age, yet your depth of study into LDS history is so much deeper than mine, and I fancied myself a better student than the average TBM in this subject!
I really appreciate your well researched posts here!
Edited for content/spelling
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/19/2014 05:59PM by moose.
I really appreciate your well researched posts here!
Edited for content/spelling
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/19/2014 05:59PM by moose.
moose Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> randyj, I believe you and I are about the same
> age, yet your depth of study into LDS history is
> so much deeper than mine, and I fancied myself a
> better student than the average TBM in this
> subject!
>
> I really appreciate your well researched posts
> here!
>
> Edited for content/spelling
-------------------------------------------------------
> randyj, I believe you and I are about the same
> age, yet your depth of study into LDS history is
> so much deeper than mine, and I fancied myself a
> better student than the average TBM in this
> subject!
>
> I really appreciate your well researched posts
> here!
>
> Edited for content/spelling
I had bought and read Richard van Wagoner's book about 14-15 years ago, and read about the alteration of Joseph Smith's statement re: polygamy there. When I used to debate TBMs about polygamy, they would occasionally quote the bogus Smith statement. So I would inform them that the quote they were citing was fraudulent.
Greg Trimble's use of the bogus quote shows that TBM defenders really don't know what they're talking about. I copied my post here to Trimble's FB page. I don't know whether he's bothered to read it or consider it yet.
Greg Trimble's use of the bogus quote shows that TBM defenders really don't know what they're talking about. I copied my post here to Trimble's FB page. I don't know whether he's bothered to read it or consider it yet.