Recovery Board
: RfM
Recovery from Mormonism (RfM) discussion forum.
Someone mentioned in a closed topic how close going on a mission is similar to being in a cult.
I couldn't agree more.
The life of a regular Mormon could almost pass as "normal" (although there are certainly cult-like aspects too).
But a mission? It's certainly being in a cult!
* You are separated from family and friends. (With phone contact only twice a year... Hello!)
* Even if your family is in the same town, you are not allowed to see them.
* You have to wear a "uniform" (white shirts, name tags etc).
* You lose your identity. (You are not allowed to use your first name. You become "Elder" So-and-So.)
* Your ENTIRE daily routine is dictated by someone else (specific times to wake up, study, eat, go to sleep etc.)
* The guru (mission president) decides where you live, who you live with, and for how long. (Reverend Moon also decides who marries whom.)
* You are pressured, manipulated, blackmailed to go on a mission. It's not like the free decision of someone who chooses to become a monk or a nun and retire to a monastery.
* You work 24/7 days for the organization. No week-ends, no vacation. (P-days don't count, as they only last a few hours of one day, and you have to do your laundry, clean the apartment and go grocery shopping in these few hours.)
* (And it's never enough. They always make you feel like you can do more and more.)
* You actually PAY for the "privilege" and "honor" of being a slave.
Feel free to list more similarities...
I couldn't agree more.
The life of a regular Mormon could almost pass as "normal" (although there are certainly cult-like aspects too).
But a mission? It's certainly being in a cult!
* You are separated from family and friends. (With phone contact only twice a year... Hello!)
* Even if your family is in the same town, you are not allowed to see them.
* You have to wear a "uniform" (white shirts, name tags etc).
* You lose your identity. (You are not allowed to use your first name. You become "Elder" So-and-So.)
* Your ENTIRE daily routine is dictated by someone else (specific times to wake up, study, eat, go to sleep etc.)
* The guru (mission president) decides where you live, who you live with, and for how long. (Reverend Moon also decides who marries whom.)
* You are pressured, manipulated, blackmailed to go on a mission. It's not like the free decision of someone who chooses to become a monk or a nun and retire to a monastery.
* You work 24/7 days for the organization. No week-ends, no vacation. (P-days don't count, as they only last a few hours of one day, and you have to do your laundry, clean the apartment and go grocery shopping in these few hours.)
* (And it's never enough. They always make you feel like you can do more and more.)
* You actually PAY for the "privilege" and "honor" of being a slave.
Feel free to list more similarities...
Yep. Baffles me that I don't regret it. I know it is because of the foreign cultural experience I had. But if I had been sent to some lame state side mission I believe I may feel differently now. But then again I am sure there are many state side returned missionaries who gained some positives from being out away from home and the growth experiences they had. For many it is looked back on as just an extended University Freshman year of discovering the bigger world. But...yep.
I am a witness that it wasn't always like this. But it is now. Two-year cult indoctrination is the policy; any baptisms that result from it are just gravy.
Yes, apparently things were somewhat different until the 1950s/1960s. There wasn't so much pressure to go on a mission, and many of the cultish rules now in place did not exist.
I'm not trying to maintain, of course, that there wasn't some of that, but it was during the church's golden age of growth. Missionaries baptised. Shoot, I went to Italy and had 10 baptisms. Another guy I went out with spent most of his time in Sicily and had 32 baptisms. Now you can go on a mission to Italy and not even be acquainted with another missionary who has baptised. So whose fault is it? In Mormonism, one is taught that it is never anything but the members' collective fault, or the missionaries' collective fault. So they crank up the asshole quotient of all mission presidents, going from the nice sort of guys that were MPs on my mission to attorneys and CEOs who are hoping to become GAs.
Meanwhile, they have changed everything having to do with daily life, the biggest issue being control. In my day we were almost entirely off the tether. I only saw the mission president 3 times on my mission. I may have seen Thomas Monson more than my own mission president. If we had to (and could afford the rather high cost) we had carte blanche to call home. We received mail and packages at our own residence. We often went to movies on P-day (D-day, or "diversion day" back then). It's just so different now.
Meanwhile, they have changed everything having to do with daily life, the biggest issue being control. In my day we were almost entirely off the tether. I only saw the mission president 3 times on my mission. I may have seen Thomas Monson more than my own mission president. If we had to (and could afford the rather high cost) we had carte blanche to call home. We received mail and packages at our own residence. We often went to movies on P-day (D-day, or "diversion day" back then). It's just so different now.
I agree with your comments. I served in the Texas Mission 1960-62. I never counted them all, but personally had dozens of converts. Sometimes, we would baptize whole families of five or six at a time.
The systemic teaching plan didn't even exist until the later part of my mission. We were pretty well free to teach as "moved upon". I mainly used Ferguson's "One Fold, One Shepherd" to convince them of the truth of the BoM along with Moroni 10:4.
Most people I met knew very little about Mormonism other than possibly having heard about polygamy and/or the Book of Mormon. For the most part, anti-Mormon literature was not readily available, so what we told them was pretty well it. I told them polygamy hasn't been practiced in over fifty years and was only instituted for the protection of single women in the old west (which is what I had been told). This brief comment satisfied most questioners.
I recited the story of the "First Vision" often quoting directly from the PoGP followed by my personal testimony. I then told how the BoM came forth and left them a copy encouraging them to read it. All subsequent meetings centered on Ferguson's "proofs" along with supportive archaeological picture books. I kept them focused on the BoM until they "knew" it was true and baptized them shortly thereafter. I never discussed the Mormon plan of salvation as it would have only confused them. I mainly used sales closing techniques I learned from books including "Closing the Sale" and "Think and Grow Rich". Like most missionaries before me, I never sold Mormonism, I only sold The Book of Mormon.
Back then, it was "as easy as following off a log"!
The systemic teaching plan didn't even exist until the later part of my mission. We were pretty well free to teach as "moved upon". I mainly used Ferguson's "One Fold, One Shepherd" to convince them of the truth of the BoM along with Moroni 10:4.
Most people I met knew very little about Mormonism other than possibly having heard about polygamy and/or the Book of Mormon. For the most part, anti-Mormon literature was not readily available, so what we told them was pretty well it. I told them polygamy hasn't been practiced in over fifty years and was only instituted for the protection of single women in the old west (which is what I had been told). This brief comment satisfied most questioners.
I recited the story of the "First Vision" often quoting directly from the PoGP followed by my personal testimony. I then told how the BoM came forth and left them a copy encouraging them to read it. All subsequent meetings centered on Ferguson's "proofs" along with supportive archaeological picture books. I kept them focused on the BoM until they "knew" it was true and baptized them shortly thereafter. I never discussed the Mormon plan of salvation as it would have only confused them. I mainly used sales closing techniques I learned from books including "Closing the Sale" and "Think and Grow Rich". Like most missionaries before me, I never sold Mormonism, I only sold The Book of Mormon.
Back then, it was "as easy as following off a log"!
GREAT post, Stephan
I suggest Printing It Out for handing to missionary
At your door.
Alter it a bit first....start with "You are separated..."
End with something like
YOU are in a CULT. Reference Hassan or a quote from somebody good about cults, perhaps Luna's new book on cult recovery.
I suggest Printing It Out for handing to missionary
At your door.
Alter it a bit first....start with "You are separated..."
End with something like
YOU are in a CULT. Reference Hassan or a quote from somebody good about cults, perhaps Luna's new book on cult recovery.
I wonder if anyone has ever just walked out of the MTC on their own after saying to themselves, "screw this!"
Happens all the time.
If guilting them half to death doesn't work, can they make them stay for a day or two "just to think about it?"
My stepson, who is totally TBM, would never say anything negative about his mission experiences, sidestepping any questions that could lead to negative answers.
My stepson, who is totally TBM, would never say anything negative about his mission experiences, sidestepping any questions that could lead to negative answers.
Sometimes wish I had the balls to do that. But I liked my mission because of the foreign exposure. And I was pretty heavy into Mormonism at the time. I thought I could eventually be translated into heaven if I was good enough. God I was so delusional.
Yeah, my experience as a missionary is pretty much exactly what cult members go through. The brainwashing was pretty intense.
* The APs secretly search through your things and read your mission journals while you are away then report on it to the MP for plagiarism or discipline
* Basically: if you show good business potential, come from a certain family situation or line, know or are related to powerful people at home, have greater influential potential or credentials, have a [profitable and popular] image story to tell, etc., you tend to get promoted in leadership. Sometimes if you want out of the mission you get promoted in leadership to persuade you otherwise (at least in my mission)
* You learn MLM salesman techniques and focus primarily on the 'golden investigators'. I got rebuked and hounded by ZL and DL for focusing too much on a repeatedly 'stagnant investigator'. They were stalking me and even interrupted a FHE meeting for new coverts that I had organized and attended. (Hey I had no problem tracting for hours on end, day in, day out, like most of my other comps did) But all of their conspiring (which also came from my then comp at the time) changed immediately when my investigator converted
* You learn criticisms of other religions, while being forbidden to entertain any in return, and you may even attend another church with your ZL so as to watch him make fun of it, as mine did to me for being to 'tolerant' of other people's faiths. That church in question recognized our presence and called on me to say their closing prayer, which I did fully in their favor. Rebuked later by my ZL comp of course
* You gain status and praise (often promotions) for the number of baptisms that you make with a cultist appeal
Of course every mission will differ somewhat from mine.
EDIT: I once met an RM from my mission but with the MP before mine. He had also had my MP for his first month, but had nothing good to say about him, and that with his MP the mission soared in baptisms every week. When he asked me about how much my mission was baptizing under my MP I told him that there were a ton of inactive converts from his mission that my mission was stuck with. That burst his bubble ego a bit.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/19/2014 02:55PM by rid.
* Basically: if you show good business potential, come from a certain family situation or line, know or are related to powerful people at home, have greater influential potential or credentials, have a [profitable and popular] image story to tell, etc., you tend to get promoted in leadership. Sometimes if you want out of the mission you get promoted in leadership to persuade you otherwise (at least in my mission)
* You learn MLM salesman techniques and focus primarily on the 'golden investigators'. I got rebuked and hounded by ZL and DL for focusing too much on a repeatedly 'stagnant investigator'. They were stalking me and even interrupted a FHE meeting for new coverts that I had organized and attended. (Hey I had no problem tracting for hours on end, day in, day out, like most of my other comps did) But all of their conspiring (which also came from my then comp at the time) changed immediately when my investigator converted
* You learn criticisms of other religions, while being forbidden to entertain any in return, and you may even attend another church with your ZL so as to watch him make fun of it, as mine did to me for being to 'tolerant' of other people's faiths. That church in question recognized our presence and called on me to say their closing prayer, which I did fully in their favor. Rebuked later by my ZL comp of course
* You gain status and praise (often promotions) for the number of baptisms that you make with a cultist appeal
Of course every mission will differ somewhat from mine.
EDIT: I once met an RM from my mission but with the MP before mine. He had also had my MP for his first month, but had nothing good to say about him, and that with his MP the mission soared in baptisms every week. When he asked me about how much my mission was baptizing under my MP I told him that there were a ton of inactive converts from his mission that my mission was stuck with. That burst his bubble ego a bit.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/19/2014 02:55PM by rid.
rid Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> EDIT: I once met an RM from my mission but with
> the MP before mine. He had also had my MP for his
> first month, but had nothing good to say about
> him, and that with his MP the mission soared in
> baptisms every week. When he asked me about how
> much my mission was baptizing under my MP I told
> him that there were a ton of inactive converts
> from his mission that my mission was stuck with.
> That burst his bubble ego a bit.
yes, and in missions in third world countries these miraculous conversion / baptism stories so often have previously unmentioned component promises to the convert by the American Missionary that the convert will eventually get a gift, like a nice american refrigerator in exchange for their conversion.
Huckster Hinckley said something somewhat likewise, a poor mexican farmer converted and then with the blessings of the lord became a prominent and more wealthy salvage operator / junk dealer. proof of MORmON god's blessings to the faithFOOL in action !!!
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> EDIT: I once met an RM from my mission but with
> the MP before mine. He had also had my MP for his
> first month, but had nothing good to say about
> him, and that with his MP the mission soared in
> baptisms every week. When he asked me about how
> much my mission was baptizing under my MP I told
> him that there were a ton of inactive converts
> from his mission that my mission was stuck with.
> That burst his bubble ego a bit.
yes, and in missions in third world countries these miraculous conversion / baptism stories so often have previously unmentioned component promises to the convert by the American Missionary that the convert will eventually get a gift, like a nice american refrigerator in exchange for their conversion.
Huckster Hinckley said something somewhat likewise, a poor mexican farmer converted and then with the blessings of the lord became a prominent and more wealthy salvage operator / junk dealer. proof of MORmON god's blessings to the faithFOOL in action !!!
I remember a salvage operation / junk dealer in Provo once upon a time. The DI later got cleaned up and more organized, complete with a face lift
Preach My Gospel. This is something we didn't have years ago. It's the church's way of converting the missionary as s/he attempts to convert others. The cult focus on yourself as an 'investigater.' Along with the multitude of 'training' sessions on any possible way to attract more they keep the missionary busier and busier so there's no time to wonder or doubt or question.
What's worse to the cult than a missionary who doesn't baptize anyone? One who leaves the cult. Can't have that! No can do!
What's worse to the cult than a missionary who doesn't baptize anyone? One who leaves the cult. Can't have that! No can do!
I was certainly brainwashed in the MTC. It was bad. I broke down bawling at one point it was so intense. The field was much better. I had a couple comps early on who were good but not so damn strict. Overall I look back on the mission as a positive part of my life. I'm a hell of a salesman today because of it. If you can sell someone the mormon church you can sell ice to Eskimos. (I don't want to offend any Eskimos with this post.)
And as a result of my mission I learned how to detect pitches and reject salesman tactics.
Just saying.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/20/2014 10:11AM by rid.
Just saying.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/20/2014 10:11AM by rid.
The controlling environment of a mission is hard line cultism while the daily life of a Mormon is much more cult light.
How about the sales boot camp they start with? The f**king MTC is nothing but a f**king brainwashing program.
Here's what you DON'T get in the boot camp:
No history of the cult.
Beyond a carefully crafted script, no study of Joseph Smith, his family, his conviction for money digging or his belief in magic.
No meaningful Christian theology or exclusively Mormon doctrine other than very limited basics.
No history of Christianity itself beyond proof-texted KJV Bible excerpts and a minimal theme of apostasy and restoration.
Nothing on the bizarre practice of polyandry, the most recognizable teaching of Mormonism.
Not a word about Masonry and the connection to LDS temple ritual.
No contact with the outside world where you might have the opportunity to question things your instructors have said.
No open source library or any other way to explore your curiosity. No ability to fact-check your instructors, manuals, leaders. EVERYTHING IS BASED ON FAITH ALONE and it's all "take my righteous word on it!"
Here's what you DO get:
Sales, sales, sales. Selling religion complete with sales manuals, role playing, how to push, push, push your product.
Testimony, testimony, testimony. Blah, blah, blah. Weeping and lots of emotional display.
Continual confirmation that the Morg is "true" using doublespeak. If you FEEL it's true, then it IS true. Doubt your doubts. Bear your testimony until you believe it.
Language training if needed.
Being told that YOU'RE exceptional, chosen, valiant, The Lord's elect, etc. etc. etc. Nevermind that you're some dumb f**king 18 year old who doesn't have a f**king clue which end is up. Sh*t, you've only been driving for 2 f**king years, how much of the world do you really know?
Best of all, "special appearances" by deified General Authorities. True cults worship personalities rather than doctrine and the leadership of the Morg is nothing BUT personalities.
If serving a mission is a cult experience, the f**king MTC is the cult brainwashing boot camp.
Here's what you DON'T get in the boot camp:
No history of the cult.
Beyond a carefully crafted script, no study of Joseph Smith, his family, his conviction for money digging or his belief in magic.
No meaningful Christian theology or exclusively Mormon doctrine other than very limited basics.
No history of Christianity itself beyond proof-texted KJV Bible excerpts and a minimal theme of apostasy and restoration.
Nothing on the bizarre practice of polyandry, the most recognizable teaching of Mormonism.
Not a word about Masonry and the connection to LDS temple ritual.
No contact with the outside world where you might have the opportunity to question things your instructors have said.
No open source library or any other way to explore your curiosity. No ability to fact-check your instructors, manuals, leaders. EVERYTHING IS BASED ON FAITH ALONE and it's all "take my righteous word on it!"
Here's what you DO get:
Sales, sales, sales. Selling religion complete with sales manuals, role playing, how to push, push, push your product.
Testimony, testimony, testimony. Blah, blah, blah. Weeping and lots of emotional display.
Continual confirmation that the Morg is "true" using doublespeak. If you FEEL it's true, then it IS true. Doubt your doubts. Bear your testimony until you believe it.
Language training if needed.
Being told that YOU'RE exceptional, chosen, valiant, The Lord's elect, etc. etc. etc. Nevermind that you're some dumb f**king 18 year old who doesn't have a f**king clue which end is up. Sh*t, you've only been driving for 2 f**king years, how much of the world do you really know?
Best of all, "special appearances" by deified General Authorities. True cults worship personalities rather than doctrine and the leadership of the Morg is nothing BUT personalities.
If serving a mission is a cult experience, the f**king MTC is the cult brainwashing boot camp.
I just went through part of my mission journal and have to say that I don't regret it as I have previously thought otherwise. Why did they have to muck it all up? I wanted it to be true and thought that it was, but I see what it turns people into (especially as set against me), and I see lots of the facts about the church's misconduct.
Apart from all of the experiences that I've recorded in my mission journal, the 'ignorance was bliss' lent me a different take on it all and I decided that I don't regret it. Would I do it again? No. Would I recommend it to someone else? No. It just something that happened and it became part of my ongoing pursuit of wisdom.
I believed back then that the leaders and structure was far better or wiser than I do now, as now I know better, but that deception was nice when it lasted. It's nicer knowing the truth about it now, not being as ignorant; I just think of it as a phase that I (was pressured) to go through growing up. It is clearly not mandatory for growing up however as you will always be getting experiences; I would have preferred something like a building mission (if I was to do it again) because at least then I would have walked away with a skill set that they would have a harder time defrauding with character assassinations. The trade skill wouldn't be impervious to character assassinations but I might have been better established before getting thrown under a bus, as opposed to how it ended up happening.
I just have to move on while seeking to learn from past mistakes, that's all. So I don't regret it, but I wouldn't do it again in future.
Apart from all of the experiences that I've recorded in my mission journal, the 'ignorance was bliss' lent me a different take on it all and I decided that I don't regret it. Would I do it again? No. Would I recommend it to someone else? No. It just something that happened and it became part of my ongoing pursuit of wisdom.
I believed back then that the leaders and structure was far better or wiser than I do now, as now I know better, but that deception was nice when it lasted. It's nicer knowing the truth about it now, not being as ignorant; I just think of it as a phase that I (was pressured) to go through growing up. It is clearly not mandatory for growing up however as you will always be getting experiences; I would have preferred something like a building mission (if I was to do it again) because at least then I would have walked away with a skill set that they would have a harder time defrauding with character assassinations. The trade skill wouldn't be impervious to character assassinations but I might have been better established before getting thrown under a bus, as opposed to how it ended up happening.
I just have to move on while seeking to learn from past mistakes, that's all. So I don't regret it, but I wouldn't do it again in future.