I wanted to reply to this comment in my now closed post.

"As a convert, married to a TBM, I never considered the religion reducing me to a "breeder" nor was my husband and I remote. We were a partnership and worked together."
http://exmormon.org/phorum/read.php?2,1771140,1771957#msg-1771957

Mormonism is always harping on getting married. It is what they do. And I'm guilty of associating this with becoming God's breeders. My parents were all about this and thought that was what they were supposed to do - marry and make the jewels in their crowns - kids.

And Mormonism is still promoting this idea. Look how they spin the side of not wanting marriage.

"Read the following statements that reflect how some people may feel about marriage:

•

“Being successful in my career is very important to me. I don’t want to divide my attention between my career goals and marriage.”
•

“I do not want to commit to a long-term relationship. I worry about making a decision that I will later regret.”
•

“Marriage would tie me down. I wouldn’t be able to do whatever I wanted.”
•

“I know that marriage is the most important decision I will ever make, and I look forward to it.”
"
https://www.lds.org/manual/new-testament-study-guide-for-home-study-seminary-students/introduction-to-1-corinthians/unit-22-day-3-1-corinthians-11?lang=eng

And they do promote "a partnership" in the above link like a pair of scissors is "a partnership." One blade is a penis and the other a womb. What these holy partnership scissors are used for is anyone's guess. But Mormonism definitely wants people to start their little factories running like a pair of scissors.

Edit to add the fact that they are asking people this question.

"How could a pair of scissors be like a husband and wife striving to obtain eternal life?"

I have no freaking idea.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/19/2016 07:58PM by Elder Berry.

Interesting about the scissors. I wonder if they chose scissors for a specific reason or if it was completely random and to look profound. Scissors need two opposing blades to function as one (specific gender roles?). They are more efficient at cutting through paper or reaching the end goal, as opposed to a single blade. Scissors are useful, but also dangerous (watch out for Mormon power couples..? Lol). My best guess lol. No idea where they were going with that analogy either.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/19/2016 08:35PM by demoneca.

They probably chose the scissor analogy to prove they are not sexist since both blades are the same in scissors, although we all know "mormon scissors" have one much sharper, more important blade, while the other blade is small and ineffectual.

As a female growing up LDS in Utah, I definitely felt my purpose in life was to have as many children as possible. This pressure was explicit (seminary, young women's lessons, institute, etc.) and implicit (if you marry any righteous man and follow the Lord's plan then you will be happy.) When I got married and went to graduate school instead of having children, I was made very much aware that I was not following the lord's plan for me. Even my dentist felt free to make remarks during some dental work that I was not doing my duty by having children as soon as possible. I was accused of being selfish.

My sister has 2 children, and cannot have more due to a medical condition. Not only has she been told that she is a failure as an LDS woman for not having more children, but when she tried to explain that there was a 50% chance that her next pregnancy would kill her, she was told that by not taking that chance she was proving she didn't have a testimony. She has turned to me for support because I am one of the few people who don't think her life is less important that having more children. And it hasn't been only 1 person - it is a constant barrage of unsolicited breeding pressure.

I think converting as an adult is a very different experience than growing up LDS in Bountiful Utah, living in Davis County, and being surrounded by nothing but other LDS people.

I was something of an anomaly, since my now-ex insisted that I hold a full-time job AND be entirely responsible for the running of the household. After I had one baby, and the sperm donor would not lift a finger to help with ANYTHING child-related, I refused to have any more kids. Period.

Anytime anyone hinted that it would be nice for my son to have a little sister or brother, I would say, "Not necessary. He has kids of his own age to play with at day care." And I said it with a look that did not invite discussion.

After I divorced the sperm donor, I married a truly decent man who had full custody of his THREE children, so I raised four, but only had to go through labor once! My husband was fully involved in raising the kids, so it was a fair situation.

I've sometimes wondered what it would have been like, having a baby with Husband the Second, but it would have been very difficult. Both of us worked full-time outside the home (financially necessary), we were in our forties by then, and adding a fifth child to the nest would have been pretty rough.

Besides, I was so bitter after my experience with my son's father that I had already been rendered surgically barren, voluntarily, so it wouldn't have been possible anyway.

I am still shocked at the presumption of some people to opine to others about how many children they should have!

I think it's unfortunate that people refer to irresponsible men as "sperm donors". Real sperm donors perform a valued service for which they are paid. It's true that they have nothing to do with the resulting offspring, but then, that's by design. Most women who get pregnant by a sperm donor don't want the father to be involved.

Irresponsible men who father babies they don't support are not sperm donors. They're irresponsible men. There is a huge difference between a man who donates his DNA so a woman can have a baby she wants and a man who gets a woman pregnant and abandons her and the child.

I'm sorry your ex husband was such a tool and I'm glad you found a better man to be with. It sounds like your story has a happy ending despite everything.

Remember that analogy of the locked chest containing the ultimate prize. The chest required two keys each one different, but both required to gain the reward.

The picture is always painted as a partnership, two people working together, as one. But of course, those same sentences also contain the word 'preside'. The father/husband presides, immediately making the relationship unequal.

I too felt like I was in a partnership, I could freely offer opinion and and we could discuss issues. But you cannot escape the fact that husbands 'preside' which is just a way of saying they are in charge and the ultimate decision rests with them (in righteousness of course).

In retrospect, looking at the analogy of the chest, it just confirmed the idea that there is nothing for you without a Mormon forever marriage. Guys, you need the key the wimmin have, that's all you need from her.

As for the scissors, blimey, what is it about Mormons and their idiotic analogies. If you don't get married you are like a broken pair of scissors, good for absolutely stuff all.

This is the analogy I remember hearing over and over again.

I remember thinking that I could vary it and make the man the Keynis and the the woman the box and what the gold was in this box were the children they had. It was a silly fantasy but it applied in my family. We were gold but fools gold. We were only valued as our worth as souls and not ourselves.

... so if a man doesn't get married, he's just a dick?

He'll cut like a knife instead of a pair of scissors.

Oh--Ha-ha-Ha-ha-ha!-

Exactly!

In Mormonism, all individuals are just a half of a couple. Honestly, when I was divorced and single, I was treated like half a person, even though I had a whole career, a whole income, a whole family, and a whole brain.

My self esteem plummeted.

Elderolddog, can I show this thread and your post to my unmarried friends? They'll get a good laugh!

Every I have, I donate to the Public Domain of Lamaniteville!

...but if any of your friends owns a golf course...

A Mormon mother is like an Uber for spirit babies. And no tip.

Is that an App in your pants or are you just happy to see me?

donbagley Wrote:
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> A Mormon mother is like an Uber for spirit babies.
> And no tip.

Tips are for strippers and we know they don't want kids in the way of their career. ;)

The worth of a woman's soul is great in Mormonism just not as correspondingly great as a man's head to preside.

We are just custodians or something like that. The church owns them. God owns them. We aren't even important in the grand scheme of things (women), well even those who aren't the select.

Women are nothing more than brood mares for the church, as they're not even "worthy" of being allowed to hold their baby during the blessing ceremony. I was a hormonal convert, but even then, I was judged because I didn't get pregnant fast enough after I married my ex-husband, so there wasn't going to be a child before our first anniversary. In the end, that marriage was over after less than a year, so it could be seen as a blessing because they would have lost the chance to brainwash a child.

For Mormon girls, all emphasis is that Heavenly Father wants you to marry an RM and have many children. Career and education must come second if at all. If they just follow the prophet and do this they will feel more fulfilled and happy than any career woman in history who followed her dream. Guaranteed. Really.

For Mormon boys, all emphasis is on going on a mission and then marring as soon as possible after and starting a family immediately. This is be the first concern before education and career and should trump either if necessary. (Yes I know my spell check changed marrying to marring, but it does seem appropriate to this thread so I'm leaving it.)

This is a breeder program. Maybe some manage to get the education and the career and provide reasonably good lives in a Mormon way for their children, but the emphasis is on having children number one at any expense. The Lord will provide they say--which is why all TBM's with too many kids too young usually do so well. Because they paid their tithing out of their meager earnings, they become rich. Every time. That is the secret. They always end up with riches beyond measure.

The prophet knows that true fulfillment in life comes from obedience and not from planning your family and your life carefully for the benefit of all. Wise man. But of course--he is inspired.

As for the scissors--considering what this term means to lesbians I think it goes along very well with Bednar's pickles.

I guess they got it from Old Ben.

http://ldsmag.com/article-1-8757/

Brigham's wisdom on the matter.

"While I attempt to speak to the people I would like their attention, and for them to keep quiet. I do not particularly object to the crying of children, but I do to the whispering of the people. I suppose that, if we were in the congregations of some of our Christian fellow countrymen, we would not hear any children crying. I believe they have none in some societies. I am very happy to hear the children crying when it is really necessary and they cannot be kept from it. One thing is certain, wherever we go there is a proof that the people are keeping the commandments of the Lord, especially the first one—to multiply and replenish the earth."
http://jod.mrm.org/13/300

More than just this life, brood mares for eternity. The women's "limited sphere" (direct quote from the President of the Wash. D.C. temple) in the after life is to produce "spirit children" to inhabit her husband and master's planets.

...what their religion is all about. It's to have as many babies born into the church; which is higher ratio for attending, tithe-paying members when compared to converted.

So, women get yourself all dolled up. Men, the only real way to have sex is in a Hetero legal marriage. It's time to make more Mormons--that's all "Proclamation on the Family" is about.

https://youtu.be/CnpDlNtP81g

You're not supposed to run with scissors.

While having kids can be overemphasized, there are actually a lot of women that like having kids. Maybe it is not for everyone, but there does seem to be a craving for such among many women, which is good, because otherwise we wouldn't be here.

My mom cried after her sixth baby, because she knew she couldn't have any more.

My daughters were raised out of the church, and I pushed them to get degrees and careers, but now all they think and talk about is having babies. They hate going to work.

So for a lot of women, having kids and then not working the rest of their life is a pretty good deal. My mom never had to work after having kids.

I pushed my wife to go to work after 3 kids, and she was mad at me. I somehow thought women were craving careers.

Now if we're saying women should just have the choice of career or not, guys don't get that freedom.

Free Man Wrote:
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> Now if we're saying women should just have the
> choice of career or not, guys don't get that
> freedom.

Guys can stay home. Just because the kid came out of you don't mean you have to care for it, but this is beside the point I was trying to make.

None of what you posted had to do with being reduced to a breeder. I wasn't talking about human nature but Mormonism promoting marriage and by association breeding. That is what they do regardless of whether a woman wants to be whatever she wants to be be it stay at home or go to work and men for that matter.

I posted this.

"Mormonism is always harping on getting married. It is what they do. And I'm guilty of associating this with becoming God's breeders. My parents were all about this and thought that was what they were supposed to do - marry and make the jewels in their crowns - kids."

I believe Mormonism reduces people to breeders and role-fillers and not unique glorious individuals in their own right and with rights to be whatever they want to be regardless of what the movie "Meet The Mormons" shows.

Mormonism should make a bio-pic of Sheri Dew showing how a single childless woman is their model for a successful woman. Yeah, right.

There are quite a few stay at home dads these days. And most women I know with children would never give up their careers.

Women wanting kids or not isn't the point. It's that Mormonism pushes everyone to date, marry, and have as many children as possible young so more tithe payers are born.

Still a hate on for women I see.

You are the only poster on this site who I can identify from your postings before I see your identity.

Point well-expressed, Elder Berry. It is one thing to freely choose a life path in concert with your partner and another thing to be "reduced" to plodding down the pre-determined path to breeding for the sake of the growth of any church!

Children are wonderful, and I love my daughter deeply for the person she is, not because she represents the fulfillment of some "worthy membership" requirement for some (ANY) church!

bordergirl Wrote:
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> Point well-expressed, Elder Berry. It is one thing
> to freely choose a life path in concert with your
> partner and another thing to be "reduced" to
> plodding down the pre-determined path to breeding
> for the sake of the growth of any church!

Yeah, straight it the way and narrow is the path because God doesn't want variety in creation but roles filled, hearts warmed, and people comforted with they simplicity of the way and its inability to accommodate all God's creatures.

Besides, it is easier for humans to understand a god that simplifies humanity into a cookie cutter salvation offering. Forget that we have a huge cortex and forebrain and have a difference in behaviors, variations, and experiences that is greater ofter between two human individuals than it is between some species.

God's gospel is simple. So simple a child can understand that playing house, paying Jesus, and doing whatever God's chosen servants wants is God's plan for their happiness.

Sheesh.

Yeah, I've even known several stay-at-home Mormon dads.

and mormon. Their kids are almost raised now and I worked with her when she had her first baby some 25 or so years ago. She is the brain in the family (and I'm talking BRAIN, not to put him down as he is smart, too). He gets treated like he has a problem by mormons. He struggles with it. But it works for them and has for a long, long time now. They are a team and have a GREAT marriage.

The idea (for the post above about some women want to stay home) that one size fits all is the problem. I worked for 8 years at a job I really loved (I wanted to get married young and it didn't happen). When I had twins and was a SAHM, I about lost my mind. I went to work part time and my husband tended the kids while I worked evenings and every other weekend. It worked out great for the kids.

I still do the same job, but at home. I can also go to the office. It saved me when I became a single mother to have this job. My sisters and I all HAVE to work for our sanity. My mother and my ex-mother-in-law would have been happier if they had worked all the time (did sometimes).

I do know women who love being SAHMs. I'm happy for them. I wish I could have been that person. I wasn't. I'm glad my kids are raised and I don't have toddlers running around the house, that I have time to myself. I'm not so sure I want grandkids as I don't want to be a mother again. Being a single mother was tough on me. BUT if it happens, I'll help out.

I NEVER thought I'd feel this way. I LOVED babies as a young girl, until I had my own. That's a whole different ballgame.

My parents were unable to have children of their own so would have been viewed as damaged goods by many TBM's. I have some fucked up TBM cousins who regard my brother and I as second class, less than full members of the family because we were adopted. They were taught that by their elitist asshole father who BTW was a nephew of Eldon Tanner, LDS royalty. Go figure.
My wife and I also could not have children but never subjected our kids to the cult and it's twisted, self righteous destructive morality.

RB

They want to obtain ETERNAL life? They need to CUT 10% of their income then...