I've heard so many talks and lessons recently about the Prodigal Son and how we should love our children unconditionally. Yet, in my own family AND ward, there are tons of people who completely disavowed family members for leaving the church.

My uncle was kicked out of the family and no one cared about him until he overdosed and died a couple of years ago. Why? Because he was an evil, free-spirited liberal and left the church.

Looks like the same thing is happening to my older bro. He got tattoos and doesn't go to Church anymore, and my immediate and extended family have completely cut him off.

The Church hasn't done anything in my life but tear my family apart. I can't stand hearing lessons about the "wayward child breaking his parents heart" anymore.

Heck, even God kicked his own children out of heaven for doing something completely innocuous. It's like baked into Mormonism.
I'll never understand why my parents say they love me, but as soon as I say something against the church or come out as a non-believer, it's like "get out of our life and don't come back until you repent."

Some support. Makes me wonder if there really is such a thing as "unconditional love."

There is NO place in Mormonism for so-called "unconditional love". The concept is a total farce in a Church where EVERYTHING is conditional and you are only as good/loved as your last worthiness interview.

I testify to the truth of this post.

Exactly. It's been a really painful thing to find out. All the people I thought were my friends completely abandoned me.

Any religion that tears apart relationships like this isn't worth my time.

The reason Mormons like the story of the prodigal son is because it fits perfectly into their narrative of how those of us who have "gone astray" will see the error of our ways and return to the fold. And if we were to give up our evil, apostate ways and come back to church, they would welcome us with open arms.

Right! The story does not require that the patriarch who kills the fatted calf upon the return of the prodigal to stifle himself about how much he despises the prodigal's activities.

There is no story in the bible about what a good patriarch should do when the prodigal returns, bearing alcohol, tobacco, coffee and some choice weed.

elderolddog Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Right! The story does not require that the
> patriarch who kills the fatted calf upon the
> return of the prodigal to stifle himself about how
> much he despises the prodigal's activities.
>
> There is no story in the bible about what a good
> patriarch should do when the prodigal returns,
> bearing alcohol, tobacco, coffee and some choice
> weed.

I disagree with your interpretation. Look at what the father doesn't do. He doesn't demand a full confession of the sons sin. He doesn't demand the son bathe and get dressed up before he'll be greeted. He doesn't demand an apology. He doesn't demand that the son earn his way back by working as a servant. And when the hoity-toity won't come the the banquet, the father drags in those who can best identify with the son. The father accepted his sons decision to leave and he ran out to meet him when he decided to return.

+1000

Exactly. The father was overjoyed to see his son, and all else was forgotten (and forgiven.) Anything the son may have done was forgiven by the father. All that mattered was he had returned.

It was an act of pure, undefiled love by a father, for his son.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/16/2015 06:37PM by amyjo.

I agree with you about the story and its message, but I think that Mormons see it a little differently. In a Mormon context, the "unconditional love" is saved for when the "prodigal son" has realized the error of his ways and returned home. I don't think that's the intended message of the parable, but I do think that Mormons see it that way. They feel justified in their mistreatment of us while we are "away" and then expect to pile on the "love" when we return (as they believe we inevitably will).

I was referring to a story about a father whose son DOESN'T return; there is no such story, so mormons are free to despise the absent sinner. I could have worded it better...

I was supporting the OP regarding the prevalence among mormon families to cut off the prodigal, while he's out 'prodigalling'; there is no biblical tradition that they are doing wrong, though most of us on the exmo side feel they are.

Likewise, it would have been instructive of Jesus, or whomever, to teach us a parable about what to do when the prodigal shows up, with all his prodigal habits still in full bloom.

Amyjo, when the prodigal shows up all repentant, after serving six years in Sing Sing for burglary based on a desire to buy drugs he couldn't otherwise afford, nobody I know leaves the Krugerrands and the jewelry just lying around, even if it's just to keep him from temptation. Forgive, sure; forget, not so much.

The beauty of the parable of the Prodigal Son, is because the love of the Father is so pure and undefiled.

In Mormonism there is no such thing as "unconditional love." Anon_Lurker got that right.

Whatever that child had done leading up to his return was forgotten, in the joy of reunion between father and son. It was an example of pure Christlike love.

Most Mormons, and maybe more people of all backgrounds, have never experienced what kind of love that means. To say "I love you," only because you're "towing the line," not getting into trouble, doing everything by the instruction manual isn't love. It's simply obeying, and in Moism, that includes blind obedience.

In the proverb the young man was broken, may or may not have been in need of correction on his return to his father, but it didn't matter to his dad. It was a teaching moment of grace and forgiveness for whatever had come before leading up to that moment.

There was no "kangaroo court" of love. There was no punishment befitting that child, other than what he'd already been through. He had finally come home, and that was his redemption.

And a father's rejoicing.

Based on Mormon teachings, the beauty and simplicity of that message is lost, misapplied and misunderstood.

It helps to go back to the beginning of the story. The father accepts his sons decision. He doesn't throw him out. He gives him his inheritance and lets the son go on his way. The father doesn't send spies or assigned friends with plates of cookies. The decision is honored.

The son eventually ends up living with swine - unclean animals. The Jewish listeners would have thought this the worse place to be. No one comes back from that. But one of the points of the story is that no one is too defiled that they cannot enter God's presence - they are covered by grace (the cloak).

They are welcomed, kissed, clothed and fed and rejoiced over.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/16/2015 08:47PM by caedmon.

there is no such thing as love for another. There is adoration, and there is a sense of responsibility in order to prevent guilt or to feel proud of ones self. Both traits are ultimately self serving.

How sad to go through life not experiencing real love that is selfless, not conditional for another.

The more we are able to love ourselves, the easier it is to love someone else.

Love is real. Either you're lucky enough to have known it, or have yet to discover it. Or you're not.

https://youtu.be/qdo_-U4PEsk

John Lennon is still my favorite, on Love is Real
https://youtu.be/o2Bt4IFMp0g



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 10/17/2015 08:36AM by amyjo.

Wouldn't it be amazing if someone could teach Elohim to love unconditionally?

Yes.

"Greater love hath no man this... that he would lay down his life for his friends."

Elohim taught us how to love.

He didn't deny us our freedom to choose to love.

In God there is perfect love, and hope that casts out fear.

That isn't a Mormon teaching, btw. It is a Universal belief of many religions. Whether you believe or not.

We each choose what we will believe, after we find our way out of Mormonism.

God no more forces us to love one another, than he forces us to surrender our will to his.

To me, that represents greater love than dictating ever can.

amyjo Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> "Greater love hath no man this... that he would
> lay down his life for his friends."

- - - So is it an even greater love, to lay down your life for your enemies?

>
> Elohim taught us how to love.

- - - What are some of the examples of the big guy instructing us on how to love?


>
> He didn't deny us our freedom to choose to love.

- - - sort of like he didn't deny us our freedom to choose to breathe? What a guy!


> In God there is perfect love, and hope that casts
> out fear.

- - - Only in ghawd? So atheists can't find perfect love, nor cast out fear? 'Fear' is a survival mechanism. More 'fearful' men live to pass along their genes than those who have cast out fear.


> That isn't a Mormon teaching, btw. It is a Universal
> belief of many religions. Whether you believe or not.

- - - Does being a Universal belief make it true? How come only 'many religions' and not all religions?


> We each choose what we will believe, after we find
> our way out of Mormonism.

- - - Luckily, you are that rare person who only chose from the 'correct' menu of beliefs? Nothing you believe is 'wrong'? And if someone's belief contradicts yours, you know it's 'wrong'?


>
> God no more forces us to love one another, than he
> forces us to surrender our will to his.

- - - Excellent! I can love only whomever I choose and not have to do any of ghawd's biding. And I'll still be 'saved'!!


> To me, that represents greater love than dictating
> ever can.

- - - What's your favorite key in which to sing Kumbaya?

Alas and alack, we represent polar opposites. I don't *know* anything and don't have any religious beliefs and haven't any more wisdom than your average DonBagley, or any other Catskill's comedian. You, on the other hand...

Poking the big, shambling, angry bear is losing its allure. I hope I'm not growing up!!! Fare thee well, Amyjo, fare thee well.

They have been frightened by the specter of the basement dwelling, game playing, lazy spawn that never gets independent.

Note that the Mormon only wants to be the righteous one to whom the prodigal son returns.

It's a Mormon fantasy to have found a means for always being right.

If the parable's story line were continued, what would be the fate of the returned prodigal following his father's demise?

jealous brother kicking him out saying 'you're not getting your inheritance twice ya big *$*@*&*!*@* numpty!', perhaps?

Hmmmm... I wouldn't expect the prodigal to enjoy it. But he did seem to cogniscent of what he'd done wrong and did expect to have a tough time of it when he returned home.

What makes the story *unique* is his father's over the top reaction, in treating the prodigal so kindly, and the dismissal of the 'good' son's complaints by his father.

It's such an out of character story, by a ghawd who sends a bear to kill kids who made fun of a prophet. Does the fact that only one of the gospels recounts this story mean anything?

Let me add this little tidbit

We don't know why God kicked out a third, or even if that is a correct interpretation. It may not have been something "completely innocuous" but perhaps they would have been all psychopathic murderers that couldn't be trusted to have and raise kids.

Just throwing that out of there.

I actually gave a talk on that parable. LOL

The LDS Corporation is so Phariseetical in all of it's teachings and writings. No other church has gone to such great lengths to introduce "restrictive" directions from white handbooks for missionaries to BYU's Honor Code to Ward Correlations to introducing members spying/telling on other members (Strengthening the Church Committee) to Bishop/Stake President handbooks...I supposing for each level (area G.A.'s and probably even Apostles) all get some sort of directive handbook on how to handle everything. Ranging from how people dress, what they eat, How to reign over family funerals with LDS "Plan of Salvation" talks...etc...

They have no concept on how manipulative and pathetic these daily directions that have no canonized scripture or even modern prophecy/revelation for these secret writings/commandments. I mean come on!!!, --you can get in trouble for attending the wrong ward/branch. Members have no qualms or think it's a faux pas to comment on dresses, hair lengths, color of shirts.

They direct members (mostly BYU students) to snitch on roommates caught masturbating, caught breaking the WoW, caught dating the "wrong" type...

So, they don't see the hypocrisy or even see themselves in the vain prayers spoken of in the Book of Mormon, "We thank thee O' Lord for making us better..."

For the same reason they like Article of Faith 11. But they don't ever follow it.

If they followed it, they wouldn't be shoving mishies out by the thousands.

If they followed it, and somebody leaves the mormon church, it shouldn't ever be a problem in anybody's family.

For the same reason they treat the Word of Wisdom as a commandment, even though the first words are "yo, bitch, this ain't a commandment". But I've never, ever even once met a single person who actually FOLLOWED it as it was written. Ever. In my life. Have you?

Mormons only consider their kids to be like the "prodigal son" IF they return ready to be full TBMs again.
Otherwise, they're still evil apostates.

I'm sorry to be a naysayer, but I have a terrific, loving family. They love me even though they know I'm an ExMo. And they're not trying to show me how much they love me in order to get me rehabilitated either. They're just great people. I'm so very sorry for those of you who haven't had the same experience.

wondercat

That's wonderful and gives me hope. I hope other parents of ExMos can look to your family for a good example.