So I was listening to the latest Mormon Expositor episode (Did Members Really Know About Joseph Smith's Polygamy) and something occurred to me. One of the things the church does in the JS polygamy essay is to try to establish that JS had received the polygamy revelation as early as 1831. I believe the main reference is to a letter sent to Brigham Young by William Phelps in which Phelps states that JS had said:

"[I]t is [Jesus Christ's] will, that in time, ye should take unto you wives of the Lamanites and Nephites [i.e., Native Americans], that their posterity may become white, delightsome, and Just, for even now their females are more virtuous than the gentiles."

Later Phelps states:

"About three years after this was given [i.e., about 1834], I asked brother Joseph, privately, how "we," that were mentioned in the revelation could take wives of the "natives" as we were all married men? He replied instantly "In the same manner that Abraham took Hagar and Keturah; and Jacob took Rachel, Bilhah and Zilpah; by revelation—the saints of the Lord are always directed by revelation." - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Origin_of_Latter_Day_Saint_polygamy

This idea of an 1831 revelation is corroborated by an apostate source (Ezra Booth), although there is some debate on the details of what JS actually said. The point being, that there seems to be something to the idea that JS was talking about polygamy as early as 1831, at least in reference to shacking up with the Native Americans.

Anyway...what I'm getting at is the following. DNA research has shown us that Native Americans are NOT Lamanites/Nephites, but rather are descendants of peoples who migrated from Siberia 15,000 - 20,000 years ago.

So, even if JS was saying whacky polygamy stuff back in 1831, how would apologists explain the idea that JS was saying that it was Jesus Christ's will (i.e. revelation) that the 'saints' should hook up with the Natives (i.e. Lamanites & Nephites)? The limited geography model kinda blows this idea out the back door, don't ya think? Of course there are many other problems that apologists have to deal with regarding claims about Lamanites and Nephites being in JS's neighborhood. But that's another topic that's been discussed extensively elsewhere.

So, my conclusion: DNA research with respect to Native American origins disproves that JS received the command to practice polygamy from God or JC.
Thoughts?

TL;DR: DNA research disproves 1831 polygamy 'revelation' because JS referred to marrying Lamanites and Nephites, which of course don't exist.

ah, but they 'existed' in Joe's mind! Isn't that the Grand Key of Mormonism?

The proof is right in the numbers. Breeding is the chief MORmON justification for MORmON INSTITUTIONAL ADULTERY other wise mislabeled as *polygamy*. In order for the breeding deal to properly function there needs to be a dramatically higher rate of female to male births. Even state fish and game depts understand this mathematical fact / reality, which is why they usually limit harvesting to only male deer / bucks.

Facts is: there NEVER was any dramatic female birth rate increase for those practicing MORmON ADULTERY, IF there had been then we would have never heard the end of it!!!!!!! Fact is, MORmON Jesus(= Joe smith's penis), just could not get on board with his own breeding program beyond raping some teen girls and banging some other men's wive's.

Once again, MORmONISM fails to deliver !!!

Great observation, wannabe. I for one will use this in my quiver when contending with oily apologists--especially those arguing for a Mesoamerican limited geography.

I believe the main reference is to a letter sent to Brigham Young by William Phelps in which Phelps states that JS had said:
^
Does lds.org source this letter in their essays?
Mormons could just say that it's second hand from Phelps, not from JS.

But as for debating with TBM's on that subject, that's a whole 'nother can of cureloms.

Check out Simon Southerton's last blog (he's working a new job and on hiatus) to see just how convoluted they're thinking can get. One regular here and one lurker friend of mine did their best to shine some light, but...

Cabbie, do you have family ties in Texas???

I always feel edified after a ride with you. Thanks!

Oh, and a "lost sister-in-law" (tossed actively alcoholic brother out on his ear. No contact there, but I don't blame her).

My uncle (we're "Kimballites") resigned his LDS membership but is in one of the southern evangelical sects. He's a good guy, but pretty conservative. Texas is nearly as hard on critical thinking skills as Utah County.

The whole "raising up seed" thing makes no sense. Why would a woman have more children because she was a polygamist wife? There never were an excess of women compared to men. One man could care for one wife better than a man could care for a lot, and that was proven by how polygamist wives were neglected. They did it for sex and status. Occam's Razor.

Wasn't everything either dreamed up or plagiarized by JS and his cronies? Did JS or any of his successors ever come up with anything original?