I was looking at jobs to see how much pastors get paid a week and I saw a job that pays $6,150 a week and the requirement was to love God!!! You have to know music and a little bit about God and BAM!!!!! RICH

In all seriousness I like an unpaid ministry. I don't like how pastors can be mega rich by lying to people.

Where people have actually gone to school and have degrees where they can actually HELP people. I also like, as with the vast majority of churches, the members know where every penny goes and votes on how it is spent.

And please provide some evidence of your claim.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/23/2014 11:42PM by Susan I/S.

There are evangelical pastors up here in Alberta that went to some hick divinity school for a couple years and then take on the title of Dr. Whatever....I'm not impressed...most of them are shysters.

Ron Burr

I agree with Susan. Unpaid = untrained. Mormon clergy with no training in their religion, the scriptures, counseling or public speaking can reek havoc in the lives of those attending their congregations. Just the lack of counseling skills alone can have terrifying consequences.

If you don't like what the clergy of a certain denomination is being paid, go elsewhere or stay and give your charitable income to the Red Cross. The only reason clergy are highly paid is because their congregation allows it. Not because all trained ministry are thieves. There are bad fish in every barrel. Doctors get paid a lot too but not all of them are con men and I certainly wouldn't want an untrained one because it costs less money.

>I don't like how pastors can be mega rich by lying to people

You mean like Tommy Monson?

I just thought to myself that there is so much money to be made in religion. I heard a talk by pastor Chris (who is worth over $30 million) that he never got tired of preaching.


I wonder why?

Next time, try reading the actual ad. It is for a PART-TIME position and does have specific requirements pertaining to it being for a Choir Director/Music Minister position.

Quote: "Salary is $6,150, based on 35 weeks." That means $6,150 PER YEAR.

Don't base your assumptions on a the lead-in for the site (over which the church probably had no control). The site may default to listing salary as "weekly." Just like there are items advertised on Craigslist for $1 when that is not the actual price of the item when you read THE ACTUAL AD.

money to pay their pastors some huge salary.

Wow, just WOW!

I can't sing, but I can lip sync....and for a mere $3K a week, I'm yours.

This job is only part time. Imagine making over $200,000 part time as a pastor. It seems legit right?

How would we know. Please present some evidence to back up this claim.

Where was the ad--the Onion?

They are a **part time** music minister, not a pastor. I think the headline is a misprint. If you click on it:
http://www.indeed.com/cmp/First-Congregational-Church-of-Clarkston/jobs/Choir-Director-e6a15a515914144a

It sound like a **total** salary of $6,150, based on 35 weeks. Roughly $175 a week for a part time music director sounds about normal.

music minister ?

They love to call themselves "minister".

Nothing surprising here, except to the totally uninformed.
Nothing wrong with ministering to people through music.
These are private organizations who hire their own ministers, so what's it to you?

The "average" churches I have seen that publish their budgets, the pastor usually makes in the $60,000-$70,000 a year range. Also consider that they are considered self-employed, so they have to pay both sides of Social Security (as other self-employed do), which is another roughly 7.5% off the top than a "normal" salary of that size.

Most pastors of an "average" church are not mega-rich. They are also on call 24/7/365.

That is the entry level salary. Look at pastor Chris who is worth over $30 million. There are people who try really hard in the business world and don't make anywhere near $70,000. It is a lot easier to be a pastor than it is to be a salesperson.

No, that is not an entry level position. That is people that have been pastors for 40+ years, and nearing retirement.

The average pastor probably works 60 hr weeks and makes an average of 70K per year. Some get a parsonage and car out of the deal and some don't. Most might get free or reduced advanced theological training and their kids if they are FT and their kids attend college FT, may get free or reduced tuition at a college supported or run by their church.

Most clean their own houses, do their own yard work, and their spouses work, too. They don't live in million dollar homes, they don't drive armoired autos or fly in private jets, nor do they have bodyguards. The ministry is their FT job.

Most legit and mainstream religions make a point of using highly trained and decently, but not extravagantly, paid ministers, for a reason. No Lawyers or small businessmen trolling for customers/clients among their congregants, no MBAs running financial advisor offices and preaching tithing first! To poor people on the brink of bankruptcy, or dentists cleaning teeth on the side and passing out their cards at conference or in the lobby.

No one trolling for or using congregants or their kids to mow their lawn or watch their kids for them for free, when some of those people are supposed to be serving missions, helping others.

I'm an atheist so I've got no bone to pick with a paid vs unpaid ministry, other than to say an unpaid ministry seems amateurish and uninformed and ripe for making errors or a lot of mistakes, that most paid ministers might be ripe for abuse of the money, and that neither person might readily be able to say no to their employer or to so, when or if they disagree with what their church or higher ups might ask them to say or do.

It does seem, however, that most mainstream ministers in mainstream churches who are paid or given stipends in lieu of pay, do not profit greatly from it. They generally do not walk around demanding or being accepting of being treated as celebrities or rock stars. Most don't wear fancy suits, get manicures, or wear shoes which cost more than an average congregant family food bill, for the week. Or month. Most don't live in the most expensive or nicest part of town and most don't demand that you pay tithing when you are receiving food or other benefits from the government, or when you're bankrupt. They don't ask you to remind your little kids that the five bucks grandma gave them demands tithing be paid to the church, either.

If they do overly vain or greedy or showy or high and mighty things, I look askance at them and their message and then I wonder why they do them. I think character and behavior matter and that if a person blatantly or obviously throws their money or their weight around, that they are not the most stable or credible of people and perhaps not too worthy of my trust or respect. If that wondering leads to my justifiably believing or eventually discovering or knowing that there is no good or justifiable reason for what they do, then I am even less inclined to respect them as people, nor be as tolerant of them and their church, and their continuing to preach whatever it is that they do.

The LDS church does not have an 'unpaid ministry.' The upper level officials are paid extremely well (and are put on the boards of church owned and controlled companies to launder much of what they're paid), and the local bishops, etc. are not 'ministry' -- they're untrained volunteers who get reimbursed for expenses.
Maybe you should consider knowing what you're talking about before posting...

Here is one example of what Southern-Baptists Nation-wide, make. I think most other Protestant churches are roughly in th same ball park from what I have seen.

http://compstudy.lifeway.com/summaryreport.do

Data Set: 2014 Compensation Study
State conventions: Alabama, Alaska, Arizona, Arkansas, California, Colorado, Dakota, District of Columbia, Florida, Georgia, Hawaii-Pacific, Illinois, Indiana, Iowa, Kansas-Nebraska, Kentucky, Louisiana, Maryland-Delaware, Michigan, Minnesota-Wisconsin, Mississippi, Missouri, Montana, Nevada, New England, New Mexico, New York, No St Conv, SBC Only, North Carolina, Northwest, Ohio, Oklahoma, Pennsylvania-South Jersey, South Carolina, Tennessee, Texas-Bapt Gen Conv, Texas-Sou Bapt of Texas, Utah-Idaho, Virginia-Bapt Gen Assn, Virginia-Sou Bapt Conservatives, West Virginia, Wyoming
Number of Respondents: 5832


Positions-------Number of Responses-------Average-------Compensation-------Average Pay Package
Senior Pastor: Full-Time--------------------- 3164 -------$61,641-------- $74,618

This is about exactly what the senior pastor of my Presbyterian church makes with a Master of Divinity degree and 25+ years of experience. There are many pastors across America who do not make nearly this much and others who live just above the poverty line.

Yes, that's about what the pastor of a church I attend makes. 40+ years with Master of Divinity. Base salary is a little over $60,000, with health insurance and contribution to retirement fund above that.

My denomination's guide is that the senior pastor will make approximately what a local high school principal will make.

I should add that his expected working week is six days a week with Monday's off.

The Boner



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/24/2014 12:22AM by byuboner.

Most church ministers don't make the kind of money that this ad purports to pay a music minister. If this church can pay that kind of money they must be very large and have really deep pockets. If

it is a mega-church, the music ministry will be a very large program and complex. It will have a professional band and more than likely paid singers as well. It will be a program requiring

rehearsals and services on Wednesday, Saturdays and Sundays. There will probably be three services on Sunday. Plus there are usually special programs that will be put on as well. The people

who fill these jobs usually have advanced music degrees in various church related music disciplines. Many of the mega-churches have several campuses which would probably require

commuting from one campus to the other.

Not a mega-church. One service (click on calendar). The salary is $6150 for the year (working 35 weeks), not $6150 a week. Picture looks like your typical "average" church.

http://www.firstcongregationalchurch.org/ourstaff.html

Thanks. I thought about checking out the church. We have several giant mega-churches around here and I know those guys do pretty good moneywise.

I checked out the church's website, too They're what is sometimes called "neo-Evangelical:" traditional Protestant doctrine and values, with lots of social-activity bells and whistles (Scouting, church sports, Bible studies, grief support group, etc.)

I notice the pastor is fairly young with a B.A. in religious education, an M.A. in Christian Counseling, and a Doctor of Ministry degree. The somewhat razzle-dazzle website doesn't say where he got his degrees. I've seen some fairly easy "Doctor of Ministry" degrees, and his title "Rev. Dr. Matthew Webster" strikes me as puffed up.

He has a background with Mars Hill, which is a very expansionistic church growth group. They go for big numbers and big budgets.

The calender has Bell Choir practice Wednesday nights, and Chancel Choir Thursday nights. NO services Sunday or Wednesday nights--that's significant. So this music director will be needed three times a week (Sunday worship, + two nights practice), + his own personal piano/organ practice.

This church is more of a community center than a church. It would be interesting to see how many people bring their own Bibles to church.

This is what I've seen several times:

You're looking for a job, see? And you find this one that promises several thousand dollars per week, with a number to call for an interview. You call the number, and set up an appointment for an interview. Turns out that the guys is just an Amway dude, and says that, of course you wouldn't earn that much money right away but you would if you followed all his instructions for the next year and believe in the same God.

We just received 2014-2015 operating budget report this past Sunday.

We are a small parish and our total projected operating income for the year is $411,210.00

My church pays $136,707.00 in salaries and wages a year. This includes, our priest, one bookkeeper, one assistant, the music director, religion instructor and visiting priests. I don't know if the secretary is paid or volunteer.

No one is getting rich.

By the time we parcel out the income to salaries, payroll taxes, and employee benefits we have spent $183,448.00

The rest goes to building maintenance, grounds, religious goods, insurances, property taxes and assessments, etc. We donate close to $42,000 to various charities.

Our net operating income after diocesan assessmemt - $51,636.00 and other expenses - $11,490.00 is $311.00.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/24/2014 09:47AM by notamormon.

The mormon missionaries told me about their "unpaid" clergy and how everybody serves with no pay. I thought it was great how this loving and dedicated people dedicated their lives on their penny to server others. What those missionaries didn't tell me is that in their home town in Utah the lds church owned pretty much the city and man things in it. That the buildings for the offices were huge. And that their so called prophets got millions.

I wish I had gone with the paid pastor instead, at least rhe money stays locally. And if I didn't like any given pastor I could change to another congregation. I wish I had not gone with the corporation church.

It's per *year* people, calm down. Submitter didn't read past the headline.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/24/2014 10:17AM by squeebee.

No one goes into the ministry looking to get wealthy. Unlike the Mormon church which plucks any old guy to lead the congregation whether or not he has the talents to do so, most pastors and priests have a college degree in Ministry. Many hold masters or doctorates.

However, not all preachers have a college degree but these are people who have studied the Bible most of their lives and have a passion for sharing God's word.

In Baptist denominations, a pastoral candidate can go before a group of ministers who will interview him and examine his knowledge and he will be ordained. It's like a seal of approval and a pastor need not have a degree. My grandfather became a Baptist pastor in this way. He left school in 6th grade to work in the coal mines but he educated himself and read voraciously. He was the smartest man I've known.

Baptist churches are independent and locally controlled, though they may belong to an association like Southern Baptists, American Baptist churches. etc.

Smaller congregations, like the one I grew up in, can't provide a full time salary for a pastor so they are bi-vocational - they work an outside job. Those pastors are still on call 24/7 for funerals, visiting the sick, etc. They're not wasting their time in bull**** meetings throughout the week like Mormon bishops do.

Here's what they really want, part of which you'd know if you actually read the ad, and part of which you'd infer if you had any insight into the life of a church musician:

The position pays $6150 for 35 weeks of service. That's $175 a week. Or, if you average it out over 52 weeks, it's really only $118 a week.

They want somebody who reads music, can direct a choir, and has some piano skills. (They're not looking for someone with a degree in church music, and not even a degree in music. That could be your Aunt Millie with her autoharp.)

This person will end up being involved in several choir practices during the week, and will probably perform for at least two services on Sunday. They may even be expected to perform at a weekday service. They will need to practice their service music in advance, prepare their choir music in advance, rehearse it all on a set schedule within a rotating week's time, which is essentially being a musician virtually on demand. This person will show up on time for everything, and have their "intellectual" product reviewed by the pastor, the church board, and every interested congregant.

Geez, except for getting paid a crappy little pittance, it almost sounds a lot like Mormonism.

One other difference between a paid and unpaid clergy. The clergy (bishops) are appointed in the Morg, and the members have no say in who they get, or be able to get rid if they don't like them, or even attend another ward. The "clergy" in the Morg are only accountable to those higher up, and not those they serve.

Paid clergy in mainstream churches are hired by the individual church, and can be fired if the members decide to. They are accountable to those they serve.

The problem is that in the lds church you DO pay for a minister. 10% tithing should get you a decent minister etc. I understand that the wards pull in a hefty amount each week but it all goes to the head of the church in your country (mine is canada, so the money goes to alberta, where it's then laundered thru byu to get to the states)

ANd for that 10 % you don't get:

a paid minister who knows what he's talking about or how to counsel people. When i was feeling lost after spending 2 yrs dealing with my abusive childhood, during which time my parents had temple reccommends, so they were considered 'good' people by god- i had a lot of questions, so i asked the bishop if helping people with their spiritual journey was what he did. He didn't seem too eager, but was willing to do something once a month. However, when i got a babysitter to go to my monthly appointment, he was more eager to chat with people in the hall, answer his phone etc. I only went twice. I got more spiritual advice out of Al-anon!

scouting young men leaders who don't want to be there so they just cancel or let the boys play video games. And as a woman i can't complain cause i'm not allowed to join them and put on a decent program. Also since these 'youth ministers' aren't paid, what can i say when they don't do wha tthe program says to do? They're volunteers.

clean bathrooms. We used to get that, but not anymore.

If i ever have the itch to go to a church, i'll find one with a minister who gets paid partly by me. Then i have a say in what is going on.