I have a lunch date with my ultra TBM sister. She has read the essays and likely the CES letter, Robert Ritner's position paper on the BoA, and the Wiki Page on the BoA. She wanted to meet me about my beliefs after reading the essays and I gave her the topic of the BoA. I have been out for 24 years. What do you think I should be prepared for?

I'd be prepared for an apology...admittance that you were right all along...weeping, etc... Either that, or a testimony that these things don't matter and that you can lean on her rock-solid testimony if you haven't received a witness of your own yet...maybe a call to repentance too...

I see two possibilities:
-- she's finally seen the light, and has realized that she's been lied to for a very long time, and wants some support.
-- she's decided that nothing is going to "shake her testimony," and wants to explain to you how none of this stuff means the church isn't true.

I'd hope for the former. I wouldn't rule out the latter.

Best.

I'm prepared for the testimony. He's my response, what do you think?

That's great, amazing, and fascinating to me. I am so pleased that you have a deep conviction about something you find so positive in your life. I would never try to change or convince you otherwise. I can only speak for me. I can't have a testimony that the BoA is what Joseph claimed it is. Nor do I have a testimony that the various options or theories regarding its divine origin are honest or thoughtful. Joseph lied about it. The Church continues to lie by spreading 1/2 truths in the essays. There are just too many undisputed facts. A testimony, is a belief that something is true. I can't believe in something, like the BoA, that is so obviously deceptive.

Thanks for the feedback everyone. Our meeting is is on Friday, so I'll return and report. DS has missionaries living in her home (part of the surge) and invited my family over for Thanksgiving Dinner. We are meeting privately the next day for lunch. The mishies will not be attending Turkey dinner, an olive branch to me. I probably should follow Don's advice because I'm likely walking onto a TBM testimony fest, but I'm too curious to call it off.

I love my sister, but can't stand the church. I will do my best to listen first, and let her ask me questions.

I agree with the comments above. If she wants to talk substance, then it will probably be a rehash of what she has already read and/or details. It sounds like she knows the facts but just wants to digest them... and possibly plan her next steps.

Don't

She requested the meeting, therefore let her drive the discussion. Just insist that it be mutually respectful.

Good advice.

I'd have to agree...

anxiously waiting your report

While I would love to say expect that she is going to admit that you were right. And how foolish she must have seemed, so on and so on.

I know when I had this same sort of feeling about my wife after she read about rock in a hat, polyandry and all that. I was very very sadden when she told me excuse after excuse on why these things happened. And even said that she was ok with it, and understands why it happened. She also told me that people aren't perfect, but god is. So I guess JS marrying a 14, er I mean almost 15 year old is ok. Cause he's not perfect. But let's follow him to the ends of the earth and sing his praise!

So yeah, while I hope for the best. It makes me worried that she will act like others I have known. And just bare her testimony that "these things are true" no matter what.

I like your planned response, except that to a Mormon, a testimony isn't something they believe, it's something they "know." I've found that asking Mormons questions about their testimony is helpful, because they rarely think beyond the level of "I-know-the-church-is-twoo," etc. If nothing else, asking a few questions about exactly what she believes or knows might get her thinking.

That's a good observation, thanks.

I considered my sister and I to be pretty close. She left church four years before I did. I've asked her why she didn't badger me with all the issues. She says she didn't want to be the one to ruin my testimony. She would answer direct questions. Mostly she listened to me. I finally had a friendly place to speak my doubts. Speaking doubts to my dad was sure to get you a repentance reprimand. Speaking them to my mom would bring her brand of apologetics and testimony.

Still, why did it take me so long? I think I'd bought into their b.s. about being super Mormon as the only way to have a functional, happy family. If I ditched the church, I'd have to give up the fantasy family that I wanted and just live with the dysfunctional family I had.

I have lots of respect for people that get out purely because of information. For me, I would only look at the issues when church attendance meant three hours alone. DH had been inactive for a long time. Daughter one refused to go, then daughter two. As long as church is meeting some critical needs, her path out may take a while.

Here's my prediction:

She will say, "I'm so glad I understand now why you left. These facts can seem very disturbing. But the good news is that there are answers and here they are..."

I think this based on absolutely nothing but what I've heard from my own family members.

First, they try to build common ground by pretending they have really looked at the issues and really had to deal with them.

Second, they shift the conversation back to all the same old twaddle, because they REALLY haven't dealt with the issues but have read a FAIR piece on them and think they have all the answers.

If it's any consolation, she is probably a lot more nervous than you are about the meeting (if she is going to try to bring you back in).



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/24/2014 10:39AM by generationofvipers.

You might be right. I've made it clear to her that I have read the scriptures and continue to read apologist works. If it goes in that direction, I am prepared. If she can simply articulate the issues of the BoA beyond what the essay acknowledges (and is still willing to give me a big hug), I will consider our lunch a success! I have no delusion of changing her belief in the church. That's on her, not me.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/24/2014 11:09AM by fudley.