I think my brother has Asperger's. His transplant social worker (he got a new kidney on Monday) thinks so as well.

He does not handle money well and I am worried about him becoming homeless. With his multiple diagnoses, and esp the kidney transplant, being homeless would be a disaster.

He is on disability, and I fear I may have to contact Social Security to get a third party payee to handle his finances.

Has anyone here had to do that and how did your loved one respond? I know my brother will be angry, and this is not something I want to happen.

I'm going to give him a month to prove himself, and go on a month to month basis. As long as he gets his bills paid, I'll let it go, though I plan to keep in touch with his landlord in case Bro backslides, I can head it off at the pass.

There are reasons for thinking he's got Asperger's--his social awkwardness, lack of empathy, and more.

I'm looking for advice and direction. For years, we just thought he was a doofus. A little of him goes a long way.

Other Susan

I should add, this is a 52 year old man.

He is very empathetic to the needs of others. On the other hand, Aspies often don't have what's called a 'theory of mind', where they will say and do odd and inappropriate things, not realizing that it might offend the other person. That trait is often confused with lack of empathy.

Total lack of empathy is associated with several personality disorders, such as antisocial personality disorder, and pathological narcissism, among others.

Is there anyone else in the family who could tactfully explain to him his need for someone to help him with his finances?

I worked with an aspie. He wasn't an unfeeling type. I think he knew I had anxiety problems and was trying to help. But everything he said was off. It was like his mind was out of sync with his heart, if you know what I mean. When the boss fired him he said, "I wondered how long you were going to wait for this."

Carol Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> He is very empathetic to the needs of others. On
> the other hand, Aspies often don't have what's
> called a 'theory of mind', where they will say and
> do odd and inappropriate things, not realizing
> that it might offend the other person. That trait
> is often confused with lack of empathy.
>
I agree. My oldest friend (we began playing together as one-year-olds) has Asperger's. She can really offend people without meaning to because of the inappropriate things she says and does. However, she is very kind and caring and longs to have more friends. It's been very sad over the years seeing the problems my friend has experienced socially, and in the workforce, due to others not understanding her often odd comments or her "off" body language, facial expressions, etc. :-( Based on my experiences with her, I wouldn't consider folks with Asperger's to lack empathy.

People with Asperger's actually can empathize, but they process information very differently.

Social awkwardness is not a good indicator either. That can be a characteristic of someone who is shy, suffered trauma, or just lacks social experience.

The term Asperger's is not considered an actual diagnosis anymore, but falls within a range called the "Autism spectrum" and has many variables.

At his age, he may not be able to get diagnosed. Focus on his needs, abilities and assist with what you can.

The world needs less labels and more love. I am a Mother of a Autistic son, who was diagnosed with Asperger's before the terms changed. This is merely his condition and not WHO he is.

RMM

Yes, Asperger people are very concerning people. My 16 year old Aspie Son will often ask me how I am and is very concerned about my well being. In fact, it is easy for him to internalize struggles around him. What confuses people are Aspies struggle with "big picture" approaches that sometimes come off as non-caring or "not seeing it." It's hard for their brains to see past what is directly in front of them.

If there is anyone on this board that has (or knows) a teenager boy (around 16yrs), living in the Salt Lake Valley, with Aspbergers or social awkwardness (best in a non-mormon/ex-mormon/non-active household) please let me know. We are looking for someone my Son can simply hang with and has similar interests. Many times, Aspies just need one person to be a friend.

Thanks,

TJ

I agree that people with Asperger's do have empathy, but the brain isn't wired like most people, so they lack the filter that prevents one from saying something that might offend or hurt someone's feelings.

This thread is interesting. One reason we became disaffectioned toward the LDS church was the way the ward kids would treat my Asperger Son. He was socially awkward and simply could not fit in with the "righteous kids" in the ward. All and all, the ward leaders were pretty good to him, but the LDS kids were very brutal. Kids will be kids.

That being said -

Didn't Christ come for the "so called" pariahs or outcasts of society? My Son certainly feels like an outcast (and he's done nothing to deserve that). Something doesn't fit here with our Autism childen and their status within the "true and only" Church of Christ. Autism/Aspies kids have it hard enough. To also be put up on a pedestal of "social and works perfection", demanded from the LDS church, is simply not-christ-like.

They are good enough just the way they are!

TJ

Have your brother do the following online test and let us know the result. It is not too late to pursue a diagnosis and provide him with some clarity and relief. It's better to know than to live in ignorance.

http://www.rdos.net/eng/Aspie-quiz.php

I'm Autistic (Asperger's) and do struggle a lot with social interaction. I'm a very loving and caring person. I always try to be kind and helpful to everyone I meet, but still I get accused of being rude and disrespectful. This has made me feel very helpless and slightly paranoid. It's awful to be accused of having done something wrong and not having any idea why or how.

>
> I'm Autistic (Asperger's) and do struggle a lot
> with social interaction. I'm a very loving and
> caring person. I always try to be kind and
> helpful to everyone I meet, but still I get
> accused of being rude and disrespectful. This has
> made me feel very helpless and slightly paranoid.
> It's awful to be accused of having done something
> wrong and not having any idea why or how.


Swiper. I took the test and this is the result:

Your neurodiverse (Aspie) score: 157 of 200
Your neurotypical (non-autistic) score: 65 of 200
You are very likely neurodiverse (Aspie)

I could have written what you wrote above: I'm sure there are many that feel this way, so you're not alone.

Agreeing with many of the responses here. Having some aspies in my family and extended family I'd say their problem is not lack of empathy. Not in the slightest. Often when they say or do something hurtful they really haven't a clue that other people could get hurt by such comments/actions. And trying to explain it to them is very difficult.

I wouldn't even say their problem is lack of theory of mind as such but it's in the neighbourhood. They do understand that other people have different knowledge. But it's the understanding that not merely do people have different knowledge but also different interests and responses to the same knowledge that is lacking. The Aspies seem stuck with one generic "other mind" applied to everyone else. Most of us have several generic "other mind" models in our repertoaire aswell as we develop quite specific and elaborate models of those minds we interact with alot.

So all us non-aspies learn quite easily and readily what buttons not to push even from very short interaction and subtle cues where the aspie can remain oblivious for years about what specific sensitive issues will drive his wife insane.

We became the payees, but did not have medical or financial power of attorney, for my MIL, solely for her social security disability income checks. It was not difficult to do when living in the same state as she, but became much harder to do when we were out of state, then overseas. When overseas, we had to find someone much closer to where she lived, to help do that for us, and then re-file some paperwork so they received her checks instead.

An SSA rep, or other benefits coordinator, ie: Medicaid account person, and maybe this transplant or another social worker should be able to help you. We started with the hospital social worker we were introduced to while my MIL was hospitalized the first time, and went on from there, with her very helpful advice and guidance.

We also hired an attorney to handle a bankruptcy for my MIL, and to help protect her personal jewelry and some family photos, books and mementoes from my husband's brother, as we were worried that she would be taken advantage of by him. We were worried she would become/be made homeless by him in our absence, as well. They specialized in her type of case (mental illness, on disability) and were very helpful to us. They cost a lot less than I thought they might, took up very little of our time related to the amount of time we had already fruitlessly spent trying to do this on our own, and in the end really made the whole process a lot less scary and stressful.

My middle school son was diagnosed last year with what was previously called Aspbergers. He is socially awkward in the sense that he has difficulty making friends, even though kids seem to really like him. He can be so unaware of what is going on around him, which actually helps him in middle school. He can hyper focus on things, particularly his "special subject" which is currently 80's video games, particularly those made by Namco. Last year he changed his subject for awhile as he "knew everything there is to know" but has recently returned as he found more blogs and YouTube videos. He is also the most empathetic person in our household - my mother is very ill and he sits with her for hours and is taking her terminal condition very hard.

As has been mentioned, aspie's are just wired differently. We rarely mention his condition as he hates the label and it shouldn't define who he is. It is just his way and we love him for it. I don't have experience with adult aspie's but I would take it slow and find out what your options are. Present your need to help as a positive - many aspie's need to get used to an idea before acceptance. Also avoid overwhelming him with information. Present one idea/proposal at a time, starting with the easiest. Your brother probably wants to maintain his sense of control, especially at the age of 52. I'm sending you positive thoughts and keep us posted with what happens.

I used to be disorganized about paying bills, so I started to use a wall calendar to schedule bill payments. When a bill comes in I figure out when it's due, allow a reasonable amount of time for it to make it through the mail, and schedule a payment on the nearest Saturday. The calendar is posted where I can easily see it. I also automate my car insurance payment. I use Nationwide, and they deduct my payment on a given day every month. Perhaps these ideas might help your brother.

My brother might have had Asperger's, though he was never officially diagnosed for it. He was diagnosed with bipolar disorder, and had anger issues. I think he was a psychopath, as he was extremely abusive. Perhaps these other disorders hid his mild Asperger's. There are many levels of severity for Asperger's. My brother was capable of holding a job where he didn't work alongside other people, and he could manage his finances. However, he lived his entire life at home, and my mother made his meals, bought his clothes, and did his laundry, and my father took care of his car. He was the darling of our ward, and a big phony. He hated the church, yet bore a moving testimony, crying on cue.

Please, please hire a professional Trustee to take care of your brother's finances--or do it yourself. My nephew conned my brother out of hundreds of thousands of dollars, by playing on my brother's sympathy, and pretending to try to start his own business. When my brother died, he had his estate divided equally between his siblings, and if a sibling died, the children of the siblings. My other brother (in the bishopric) visited the Asperger's brother on his death-bed, and fraudulently had him sign everything over to himself. My Asperger's brother was sick and incoherent, and he didn't know what he was signing. It was a crime, and we sued, and won.

Your Asperger's brother needs protection! Asperger's people are not a good judge of character. They can't read facial expressions, voice nuances, body language, or any other indications that someone is a crook. My brother was fiercely loyal to the nephew, even when everyone warned him the nephew was a con-man.

After 3 decades of working with Social Security, I feel qualified to make a comment here.

The ability to handle money appropriately is a key issue here.

We once had a guy who was certifiably, tinfoil-hat, delusional-crazy. He would call the (800) number dozens of times per day and yammer about all sorts of crazy stuff. People who got the calls would send messages to the office where this guy's claim was handled, saying essentially, "This guy is a basket case. He needs a payee."

The local office got tired of hearing about it, and posted a notice on the guy's record, saying, "We KNOW he is crazy. However, he pays his bills on time and manages to keep adequate food in the refrigerator and pantry; we have no grounds for assigning him to a payee, so please quit asking."

Financial responsibility is the key to it If you have evidence that his rent is not paid on time, or that his utilities were cut off due to non-payment, or that he has had to go to food banks because he wasted his money and could not buy food, you've got a good case. That's the angle I would work from.

Thanks for all the helpful advice and comments.

I know Asperger's is an old term, but it's the word that came to mind, and the one I googled, that led me to information. I'm a nurse, but I'm not well versed in the autism spectrum. I have a lot to learn.
As to my brother, he's very intelligent, but seems to have no common sense, he doesn't always have a filter, and does not seem to understand boundaries.

November 3rd, he got his disability payment. He went to Costco and bought a landline telephone. He was getting a landline, so he could use the fax function of his printer. Never mind he is paying for a smart phone. November 5, he came home to find his electicity shut off. He had received a disconnect notice two days prior. The next day, he paid the amountt due plus the current amount. He did not pay his rent.

He's been evicted once before, a few years back. He came home to find his stuff on the curb and the locks changed. I think he was on the verge of getting evicted last year, just before he moved in with me.

He lies about money. He does not seem to understand the difference between necessity and luxury, nor does he seem to get there will be.consequences.

We have a plan, and we'd rather not resort to it, and my sister will be his payee if he slips up. I'm going to talk with his landlord, so I know.if he is slipping. If bro slips, I'll contact the social security office to get a third party payee.




I feel like I'm being mean. And I have no choice.

Other Susan

No reason that most people with Asperger's (not the DSM-V term) cannot manage their own affairs. Better to spend your energy on getting him services to help him manage his own affairs, rather than trying to take over. How has he gotten to Age 52?

Those who are interested in manifestations of those on the spectrum might read "house rules" by picoult or "the curious incident of the dog in the nighttime".