I got wound up like a clock spring over the polygamy essay, particularly the accusation that members should have known it all along. Many years ago I was told to avoid No Man Knows My History, to stay away from anything by Jerald and Sandra Tanner, etc. Back in those years those were the only sources that had it all in single books. I asked about Fanny Alger and was told it was an anti-Mormon lie. And it goes even deeper and more personal for me.

My father was excommunicated for adultery when I was just going into adolescence. My parents divorced and I went to live with Dad. He had all of the books from Mormonism Shadow or Reality to Brodie's work. I first learned about Fanny from him, although I didn't know about Joseph marrying other men's wives. The thing that kept me in the church back then was the assurance from LDS members and leaders that all of those things were anti-lies and I followed their counsel to not read such books. I eventually re-baptized my father and for all of these years since I never gave much thought to those things he had shown me in my youth.

Dad passed away last summer, and now the LDS church is officially admitting the very things I had been told were lies. It really hit me in the gut when it came out in the New York Times. I was lied to by the Mormon church those many years ago and now apologist are saying that members should have known. That is bullshit. My realization in the 1960s that Joe screwed the babysitter was correct but I was misled by LDS members back then. The LDS church is trying to color Joe's adultery as if it was a good thing - grade A pasteurized, homogenized and blue ribbon approved by god. Its too close to home. Dad's affairs caused family pain that is still felt by my mother and siblings after almost a half a century. Those defenders of Joseph Smith's sexual predation are liars supporting an adulterer. It is too close to the pain my own family suffered.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/18/2015 09:13PM by Susan I/S.

I understand and totally feel the same way after having heard it was anti-mormonism material, then to realize they lied to me my entire life.

I can only imagine the anger of those early pioneers from England who sold all, gave all, came to Utah, only to discover they had been lied to in the same way.

Polygamy is alive and well in the mormon church.

No matter what our parents have done in our lives, the church has done far worse to families.

The anger grows the more the church tries to defend perverse actions and beliefs.

I just hope people get out while they can and take their children with them.

Yes, polygamy is still alive in the church. For many years my mother tried to get her sealing cancelled. The First Presidency continually denied her request because she never remarried. Dad did remarry and after I re-baptized him he was sealed to his second wife while still sealed to my mother. He was sealed to two living women for all of those years, one who wanted that ordinance cancelled and the prophet denied her wishes.

Yes, they're lying SOBs.
It's painful to find out. I found out 30+ years ago, and it still hurts.
It does get better, though -- once you stop letting them have power over you.
Really.

This polygamy essay has caused me some real pain. I resigned from the church a few years ago for different reasons and had gotten past the anger. RFM talks about recovery and I was recovering.

Isn't it interesting how something I hadn't really even thought about and had nothing to do with my leaving the church slammed me right in the gut?

Hang in there. Being upset is a reasonable reaction.

Sort it through and then act on what you see. Many of us have experienced strong emotions on what you are about to go through.

You have a community. That hasn't always been the case. Bummer about your dad too. One thing for me is that I struggle with fundamentalist thinking, I still come to opinions, but refuse to absolute about most things. Life can be mess and squishy and I have decided that I need to be cool with that, learn to enjoy it as it is, not as I want it to be,

Sorry about the personal pain this causes you. It's very understandable.

Your post, I think, explains why so many members have reacted so strongly to this essay. Some of us did find out this information, but what the mopologists conveniently don't mention is what happened then: we were told by the church that it was all anti-Mormon lies and further that we shouldn't be reading material that didn't come directly from church correlated sources. Also, if you tried to share that info, you were threatened with disciplinary action.

Now that The Corporation has admitted that it is true, the sense of betrayal is even greater because of what we were told in the past.

Again, I'm sorry for what you and your family were put through by this organization.

I just want to say thank you to the RFM members who commented to this post.

+

The truly odd thing is this:

In publishing their recent essays, the church leadership is actually lying about the nature of their past lies!

Maybe in a future set of essays they will publish new lies, about their previous lies, about their first lies.

By their fruits ye shall know them.

+

lds leaders don't think the ordinary values that they teach as necessary apply to themselves, they don't acknowledge Irony or Integrity.

The saying about Watergate applies here: it's not the crime, it's the coverup. And in the LDS church's case, it's also the lie that they never covered up any of this.

Here your mother was the victim and they wouldn't even grant her a temple divorce. And all those Mormons who say we should have known. We can all "testify" to the fact that we were NOT taught this stuff.

How can we get the word out that the church denied this for all these years.

Michaelm, I feel the same way as you do. I've been out for a decade, but this hit me hard too.

Lies, cover-up, and lie about the cover-up.

It's disgusting.

And to a particular apologist whose name I will not give but who sometimes lurks here - I also want to say a big fuck you, fuck you very much.

So your father's adultery, which should have been a family
matter for your parents to work out, becomes a ward matter with
a whole high council ex-ing him and announcing he's been exed so
the whole neighborhood can know about it.

The Morg makes things worse. Their job is to go around the
battlefield of peoples lives pouring salt into the wounds.

Isn't it wonderful? Isn't it marvelous?

Yes.

Mormonism is a land of confusion. It is in a constant state of flux. It's all about keeping the members so of balance that thay don't know which way is up.

Some years ago a cat I know in central Utah gave me some DVDs to listen to on a long road trip. They were called They Knew the Prophet or some such title. They were supposed to increase my spirituality. Imagine my surprise whe nseveral of the journals that were quoted mentioned Joseph walking up to gentlemen and letting them know he was to marry their spouses?

PLEASE make a couple copies of your OP & send 1 to TSM, the other to the Q12.

ya never know.

I am sorry that the pain is SO deep michealM, and yes I too understand. I STILL, 20 years since leaving tscc, have my anger times, when I think of the sacrifices I made to be active in tscc and that it now means NOTHING.

ONe of the ways I could best handle my anger was to write it down. I didn' get to share it then, like on this board, but I think it adds to the healing.

Please take good care of yourself, and yes it is OKAY to be angry. You have beed duped BIG TIME, we all have.

I can't tell all of you how comforting it is to know that there are so many others who know that i've been lied to, deceived, abused, lied to some more, and then made to feel like i'm the bad and evil one when i'm not.

Validation is everything. For decades my family and church had me convinced that there was no hope for me. I was denied eternal ties with my husband and children. There were no valid reasons given. I was accused of things that were ridiculous speculation on the part of total strangers. I was lied to repeatedly. The wake up call came when there were hints to my husband that I wasn't good enough. They had a sweet sister in mind that had 6 (SIX!) boys. My DH wasn't interested in sister 6boys. He was looking forward to retirement with his wife of 20 some years (me).

The lying, deception, and games that go on at every level of mormonism is disgusting. I just wish there was a way t help every mormon know exactly who and what they're dealing with.

Betrayal.

One of the most powerful emotions. I feel BETRAYED. BETRAYED and deceived knowingly, systematically, and with guile for well over 50 years.

Betrayal is such a strong emotional response that it could possibly break through enough TBM's life-long conditioning and its taboo of discussing anything that might put the church in a poor light.

I think TSCC is being forced to walk along a razors edge in what is a pitched fight for their TSCC organization's survival. Let us hope that the "wretched hive of scum and villainy" some in TSCC call 'the brethren' have miscalculated in their damage control efforts.

The same thing happened to me that happened to your Mom. My temple husband beat me and almost killed me. TSCC would not grant me a temple divorce. I had a nice Mormon fiancee who wanted to marry me in the temple, but, no divorce. I tried for 10 years to get a temple divorce, and in the meantime, my ex married (and beat) two other women. When the stake presidency came to my house and told me that my children were sealed to the temple husband--a stranger and a criminal--something snapped. All this temple garbage was not of God.

Is your mother still alive? It's not too late for her!

She can un-seal herself to your father and that other woman, by formally resigning from the Mormon church. It says in the Church Handbook of Instructions (your mother can find it online) that "all temple blessings and ordinances are revoked"!!!! In my letter of resignation, I quoted this, page number and paragraph. I also declared that my children and I have nothing to do with the LDS temple or the LDS church.

I wish there were some way of un-baptizing people, or resigning people posthumously. The Mormons baptize the dead, so we should invent some equally bogus ceremonies which undoes their bogus ceremonies.

I also quoted my own temple marriage ceremony, which stated that if one partner commits adultery, or physically abuses the other partner, that the marriage becomes NULL AND VOID!

(I have been to other temple marriages that never mentioned fidelity or kindness or love at all, so maybe this has changed.)

My mother is still alive but she will not leave the church. For many years she was deeply troubled that she could not get the sealing cancelled, but finally put it on her shelf and quit trying to get the First Presidency to approve it.

She is facing the inevitable end of her life now in her advanced age and clings to the LDS lies about the afterlife, cherry picking what she wants it to be. I don't know how she is dealing with my father's death and hers coming. How does a person find peace in a church that insists they will be forever with the person they divorced? I guess she has buried it somewhere in her mind and tries not to think about it.

Only one of my siblings remains an active member, all of the rest have left the church or are inactive.

"The Mormons baptize the dead, so we should invent some equally bogus ceremonies which undoes their bogus ceremonies."

Someone has already thought of that!

http://alldeadmormonsarenowgay.com/

There is a discussion on the Polygamy Essays here. Not sure if anyone has seen it or if it was mentioned before

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kYLcQ0fzHDI

It's the Salt Lake Tribune one
Trib Talk: Mormon essays on Joseph Smith’s polygamy

The three female guests are church members so it's interesting to hear them discuss it.


However I much prefer to listen to Grant Palmer and Sandra Tanner on Ancientpathstv with host Jason Wallace. These two know how to deliver the facts.

It appears to me that they lie even when the truth is cheaper!