It is just time we need to tell the whole world the truth, Mormons are Pagans, they are following the biggest lie ever perpetuated and told to a people. Joseph Smith was never a prophet of anything but lust, adultery and swindling good simply minded men of their livelihood, wife’s and their daughters. He fabricated the most unrealistic and false history of a people that never existed. He plagiarized material from other authors of fiction of his time, and twisted their fictional histories into his unbelievable book of lies.
The real Jewish-Hebrew prophets came into existence to predict the coming of the "Messiah" Jesus Christ. He came over 2000 years ago, and when he died on the cross at Calvary, his last words were “it is finished”, and guess what, he was correct we no longer need prophets, or temples, or men tell us what to do, we have his words in red to guide us. A true prophet was from the chosen race from which Christ was to come from. That would be a Hebrew. I don’t think the pagan jokers in Utah are from that tribe. The god the Mormons worship is a very small god that once was a man. The God of the Hebrews and Christians never was a man, he has all way been God, and there are no other gods but him. He is the great “I AM“ and he had only one begotten son, Jesus Christ, the rest of us are "humans" one of his creations, we are adopted through Jesus Christ into the family of God, he knew us in our mother womb but not before that, we came into being at the time of conception, we never were his spirit children up in Heaven before we were formed in our mother’s womb. He does not have a wife, he can transverse the cosmos, going both forward and backwards in time. He can make anything he wants to make anytime he wants to make it. God never was or never will be a Mormon. He is the Alpha and the Omega, the beginning and the end. God is from everlasting to everlasting, worlds without out end.
At the other end of the spectrum we have the Pagan Mormons who think they will become gods, and have their own worlds; this would be an abomination to the real God of Heaven. Mormons think they are spirit children of their once human Mormon god. They believe in a university with millions of little gods having sex forever with their goddess to populate their little worlds with millions of the spirit children. All these gods and goddess were once humans just like them. Mormons believe in Paganism, which is a religion that believes in more than one God. Judaism and Christianity are religions that believe in one god which is Monotheism. The only creation that that tried to become a god was Satan, and look what the real God did to him and his followers. The same will occur to Joseph Smith and his followers. Furthermore Satan was never the brother of Christ, he was not a begotten son, just a creation. The Mormons believe otherwise that Satan was a brother of Christ. Talk about the most dysfunctional family of all time.



Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 11/11/2014 10:40AM by zenith.

Great post though...I wish I could print this and mail it to my TBM neighbors!

In what world is what the Hebrew prophets did -- things like genocide -- in any way even comparable to the Mormons?

It's two-faced at best to condemn the Mormons in one sentence and then laud pre-Christian Judaism.

Whatever awfulness Mormonism has spilled upon the world, Judaism and Christianity have already done tenfold.

Alpiner Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> In what world is what the Hebrew prophets did --
> things like genocide -- in any way even comparable
> to the Mormons?
>
> It's two-faced at best to condemn the Mormons in
> one sentence and then laud pre-Christian Judaism.
>
> Whatever awfulness Mormonism has spilled upon the
> world, Judaism and Christianity have already done
> tenfold.

Now you know why "Jesus wept" (Greek: ἐδάκρυσεν ὁ Ἰησοῦς) Gospel of John, chapter 11, verse 35, the shortest verse in the King James Version of the Bible, but perhaps one of the strongest about religion. No lauding of Judaism just stating their believes compared to Mormonism.

I wouldn't say Mormons are pagans. I would say that Mormonism is a fraud got up for gain. I'd say the creators of this money making monster used Christian and Freemason themes along with some old Testament nonsense to make their Frankenchurch. Their monster still lumbers around, frightening widows and children. But it's starting to come apart at the sutures.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/10/2014 11:08PM by donbagley.

Hit my funny bone. Thanks. I needed that.

donbagley Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I wouldn't say Mormons are pagans. I would say
> that Mormonism is a fraud got up for gain. I'd say
> the creators of this money making monster used
> Christian and Freemason themes along with some old
> Testament nonsense to make their Frankenchurch.
> Their monster still lumbers around, frightening
> widows and children. But it's starting to come
> apart at the sutures.

Perhaps I should have said polytheism for the Mormons, but they are somewhat a pagan polytheistic religion with gods and goddesses and multiple Deities, so the have a belief in many gods. Though Judaism, Christianity, and Islam are monotheistic, most other religions throughout history have been polytheistic. The numerous gods may be dominated by a supreme god or by a small group of powerful gods.This pecking order is incuraged and seen throught the Mormon faith in its structure and design.

I've been pagan for over a decade. Mormons are NOT pagans.

The OP has a vague, incorrect idea of what paganism is and is not. Although "paganism" is a broad, umbrella term describing a large group of spiritual paths and practices, the definition provided by paganfederation.org works as well as any I've seen: "A follower of a polytheistic or pantheistic nature-worshipping religion."

While the OP is correct about one thing (pagans are generally not monotheists, although you'll find some that worship "spirit" or "the Universe"), he gets just about everything else dead wrong.

Despite what the OP claims, pagans don't believe they "will become gods, and have their own worlds."

Pagans don't believe in a divine Jesus, a Satan, or the patriarchal male God of Judaism and Christianity. We follow a diversity of earth-based spiritual paths and generally observe seasonal events such as solstices, equinoxes, and lunar cycles. Many of us work with sacred and natural energies in ritual to create positive changes in ourselves and our environment.

We don't have organized governing bodies, doctrines, scriptures, commandments, prophets, church buildings, exclusive membership, and lots of rules. We believe the sacred is immanent in everyone and everything. We don't have a system that wipes out our wrongdoings and magically grants us forgiveness, so we're pretty darn careful about what we do and not acting in ways that harm others. In short, we are nothing like Joseph Smith or any of the people who claim to belong to the church he organized. To characterize them as "pagans" is not only grossly inaccurate, it's an insult to pagans everywhere.

samwitch Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I've been pagan for over a decade. Mormons are NOT
> pagans.
>
> The OP has a vague, incorrect idea of what
> paganism is and is not. Although "paganism" is a
> broad, umbrella term describing a large group of
> spiritual paths and practices, the definition
> provided by paganfederation.org works as well as
> any I've seen: "A follower of a polytheistic or
> pantheistic nature-worshipping religion."
>
> While the OP is correct about one thing (pagans
> are generally not monotheists, although you'll
> find some that worship "spirit" or "the
> Universe"), he gets just about everything else
> dead wrong.
>
> Despite what the OP claims, pagans don't believe
> they "will become gods, and have their own
> worlds."
>
> Pagans don't believe in a divine Jesus, a Satan,
> or the patriarchal male God of Judaism and
> Christianity. We follow a diversity of earth-based
> spiritual paths and generally observe seasonal
> events such as solstices, equinoxes, and lunar
> cycles. Many of us work with sacred and natural
> energies in ritual to create positive changes in
> ourselves and our environment.
>
> We don't have organized governing bodies,
> doctrines, scriptures, commandments, prophets,
> church buildings, exclusive membership, and lots
> of rules. We believe the sacred is immanent in
> everyone and everything. We don't have a system
> that wipes out our wrongdoings and magically
> grants us forgiveness, so we're pretty darn
> careful about what we do and not acting in ways
> that harm others. In short, we are nothing like
> Joseph Smith or any of the people who claim to
> belong to the church he organized. To characterize
> them as "pagans" is not only grossly inaccurate,
> it's an insult to pagans everywhere.

Mormons fall under polytheism. Polytheism are Pagan religions recognizing a plurality of divine beings, which may or may not be considered aspects of an underlying unity (the soft and hard polytheism distinction) this is not to say Mormons are under the same umbrella as the Neopaganism movement by modern people to revive nature-worshiping, and pre-Christian religions or other nature-based spiritual paths.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/11/2014 11:12AM by zenith.

The way Christians use the word pagan and the way Pagans use the word pagan are as different as the meaning of the word calling is to a mormon compared to a calling in any other religion.

I do believe this is where the confusion lies. I'm not a Pagan, so I will not add my understanding of the word to the thread, but I do know that it is not what Christians think of as pagan.

Edit for spelling.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/11/2014 12:57PM by WinksWinks.

Mormonism is not a Pagan religion. After my ill-advised time in the LDS church, I went back to the Pagan religion I really belonged in. The Mormon religion is in no way a Pagan religion!

so tell us what exactly a pagan religion is.

Paganism is a very broad umbrella for a type of religion. It's a much broader umbrella than such as "Christian" or "Jewish" or "Islamic", all of which have many groups under the umbrella but all having more in common with one another than the various Pagan religions tend to do.

One of the defining characteristics of Pagan religion is that most are polytheistic. Mormons are not polytheistic. They are henotheistic. They acknowledge the existence of many deities, but only worship one of them. (The concept of "trinity" or "godhead" is sufficiently in line with mono-identification.)

Pagan religions are minimalist in their approach to structure and organization. There is some structure, of course, as there must be in every functioning group of people. Mormonism, as we have all seen, imposes as much organization and (often nonsensical) structure as possible, down to the point of dictating what night of the week families should spend together.

Pagan religions emphasize personal freedom and responsibility. Mormonism -- and to an extent all Christian religions -- focus on the idea that a human being is incapable of doing anything worthwhile on his own and must always turn to deity to make sure things are right and to provide "forgiveness" for inherent wrongdoing.

Since Christianity is based around a single person, and since the Mormon religion acknowledges that person as a part of their religion, they are by definition a Christian religion. They are a cruel, evil, immoral, destructive cult, but they are a cruel, evil, immoral, destructive *Christian* cult. They are NOT a Pagan religion.

I would call them counterfeit Christians that inexplicably worship a false pervert, I mean false prophet. Those that practice mormonism do not know God or Jesus. Their minds have been darkened.

You make many excellent points.

I agree with you...He made many excellent points!!!

Mormons are pagans or not, either way they will be very offended if someone calls them pagans!

They look down on pagans, apostates, gentiles etc...So, how would they feel if they are called "pagans"!

I don't know . . . I wouldn't call Joseph Smith a false pervert. He was a true pervert masquerdaing as a false prophet.

notamormon Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I don't know . . . I wouldn't call Joseph Smith a
> false pervert. He was a true pervert masquerdaing
> as a false prophet.


I stand corrected.

Yeah, with Lucifer and Christ as brothers, it makes one want to question their need for eternal families doesn't it? Well I don't question it, I know who runs the CULT who always has and it has NOTHING to do with Christ.

I could not care less if TBMs are offended by being called pagans or whatever they are (occultists is better). THey don't care if they offend me continually, why should I care if I offend them?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/11/2014 01:58AM by verilyverily.

Sorry zenith, mormons are christian until they become big enough to form their own category (never). Christians are monotheistic in name only. The trinity is a hopeless way to reclassify 3 gods as one.

I am so glad you have realized that Joseph Smith was a con man. Luckily you have an anonymous author pretending to be John to tell you what Jesus' last words were. Since the author was anonymous we know for sure that HE was not a con man (end sarcasm).

When mormons talk about "anti-mormon lies" they are normally referring to "truth", unless the source is christian.

Joseph Smith didn't create his con from scratch. All he did was add to the mess of doctrines known as christianity.

The Invisible Green Potato Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Sorry zenith, mormons are christian until they
> become big enough to form their own category
> (never). Christians are monotheistic in name
> only. The trinity is a hopeless way to reclassify
> 3 gods as one.
>
> I am so glad you have realized that Joseph Smith
> was a con man. Luckily you have an anonymous
> author pretending to be John to tell you what
> Jesus' last words were. Since the author was
> anonymous we know for sure that HE was not a con
> man (end sarcasm).
>
> When mormons talk about "anti-mormon lies" they
> are normally referring to "truth", unless the
> source is christian.
>
> Joseph Smith didn't create his con from scratch.
> All he did was add to the mess of doctrines known
> as christianity.

I prefer to think of them as Smithians and not Christians. They spend more time talking about Joseph Smith than any other god or Human being. I do not think Christ would ever be welcomed into their Priesthood meetings.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/11/2014 11:23AM by zenith.

Just like monotheism does not automatically denote christianity.

zenith Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The real Jewish-Hebrew prophets...

Oops. You seem to be replacing one myth system with another.
That doesn't seem like a very good idea.

ificouldhietokolob Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> zenith Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > The real Jewish-Hebrew prophets...
>
> Oops. You seem to be replacing one myth system
> with another.
> That doesn't seem like a very good idea.

Just saying … At least the Hebrew people are a real people from history, and are not some fabricated pretend race of people created by a charlatan named Joseph Smith. Mahatma Gandhi said it best,
"I'd be a Christian, if it were not for Christians"
But I don’t think he would even go near the Mormons and their blue book of outrageous fiction.

ok --

To be able to print out zenith's post to give to your neighbors all you need to do is:

1. Put you mouse cursor at the start of Zenith's post
2. Hold down the left button on your mouse
3. Move the cursor down to the end of Zenith's post, all while keeping the left mouse button pressed.
4. Release the mouse button and hold down the CTRL key and press the C key on the key board. This copies the material high lighted to what is called the clip board.
5. Now open your program where you write letters, MS Word or Word Perfect or whatever Mac's use.
6. Put the cursor anywhere on the blank page, hold the CTRL key down and press the V key on the keyboard. This pastes the contents of the clip board into you document.
Note: These operations can be done with just using mouse button, but for now this will work.
7. Save the document to a file.
8. Print out the document and/or email to who ever you like.

P/S this is some basic PC things and I think with the tone of many posts at this site, many of us don't have the computer knowledge that teenagers take for granted, but then many of them can't sit down with a pencil and piece of paper and write a letter to a loved one.

On a mac you use the command key not the ctrl key. The command key replaces the alt key on a pc.

"...They believe in a university with millions of little gods having sex forever with their goddess..."

BYU never puts this in their brochure!

Or was the OP talking about Utah State? :-)

Chicken N. Backpacks Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> "...They believe in a university with millions of
> little gods having sex forever with their
> goddess..."
>
> BYU never puts this in their brochure!
>
> Or was the OP talking about Utah State? :-)

Witches and Warlocks have Hogwarts School of Witchcraft and Wizardry. Pagan Mormons have “Bring Them Young University” woops I mean BYU … it is the Hogwarts for future junior gods and goddesses.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/11/2014 01:56PM by zenith.

I have to say that in fairness to Pagans, I've never been bothered on the street by dorky teenagers telling me that Odin is lord and can they share a few verses from the Havamal with me.

This doesn't relate to the topic, but why don't Mormons celebrate all Christian holidays... Lent, Ash Wednesday, Good Friday, Pentecost, Advent? I don't know much of these because I was raised Mormon.

To be fair, a lot of the Protestant religions do not celebrate Advent, Lent, Pentecost, etc. The Baptist church my relatives belong to acknowledges none of these.

Let's not forget the goat head pentagrams on some of the Temples. :)

london Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Let's not forget the goat head pentagrams on some
> of the Temples. :)

With those fiberglass’s alabaster bulls holding up the baptismal pool where the young virgins are baptized for the dead … Yes those Baal [ˈbaʕal]) inspired temples do make Satanist look like Girl Scouts. It is all very Pagan inspired to me.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/11/2014 01:55PM by zenith.

Excellent post....need my convert daughter to read it. All points are my thoughts but you can express them well where I could not. Thanks.

Religion seems to be a place of group think, a social club, a place where people feel they belong to something, are recognized, and can participate or contribute.


When I think of Pagan I just think of Nature worship, Lunar / solar events, natural weather glorification, mother earth mumbo jumbo.

It's as relavent as sky daddy that the mormons worship or the powerful being , all knowing, never to be seen God floating around somewhere beyound time and space.


I really enjoyed David Tweades 5 minute talk reviewing how overtime "Gods" were like a moving goal post. From caves, to pyramid structures, to moving God to a Mountain, the sky/heaven, to somewhere in the Universe.

Now that we have hubble telecope, astrophysicists, high tech optics, advanced mathmatics and CPUs to crunch numbers we can measure our solar system / galaxy and observe the vastness of space. Just go to Neflix and watch Space: Unraveling the Cosmos and God has yet to be found.

http://instantwatcher.com/titles/196709


Pointing the hubble telescope to focus on one singular point on space for 4 months and then create a composite picture with an estimated amount of 10,000 Galaxies and you can stare awestruct at what actually exists in the deep corners of space. Sure, life has a high possibility of living but is it created by GOD? Nobody knows. Now that we can observe space, the sky daddy / GOD being doesn't seem to be around....at all. I guess it's time to watch intersteller and be entertained.

Our closest star with planets is 25 trillion miles away. We won't be any closer to visiting that star that trying to reach the center of our own galaxy to see visit a blackhole.


Conclusion: God hasn't been found. The kindness that humans can give to one another is about as God like as you are going to get for extending, love, mercy and understanding to the unfortunate. That's my opinion.