I always here stories of the sword of laben and other mystical stuff being in the church vault in the mountains. I've also heard of a special first presidency vault as well.

Has anyone actually been in the there or heard of a legitimate story of someone being in there? What other stories have you heard? I'm sure there really is a first presidency vault but whats really in it?

I think you're mixing your metaphors here. Laban's sword and other mythical stuff is supposedly hidden inside the hill Cumorah - or so urban myth has it. My dad believes God hides it by shifting time there for just a second, so when you would start digging, you would never find it. It's a miracle I came out so well...

The FP vault is real. It's where old and/or important and/or embarrasing stuff is stored. The FP doesn't actually know what's in there, though. It's quite big, more like a storage area. I think Steve Benson has a description, maybe he'll post it here.

I haven't been in the vault myself but I know a BYU-person who has. They told me back in the 1990s that they handled Joseph Smith's seer stones (I think they said plural, but I can't be sure anymore).

along with Laban's sword they made up his kit.

More embarrassing than what's already out there? More embarrassing than the BoA papyrus or Journal of Discourses. No doubt you are right, as much as I have trouble imagining what could be worse than what's already public...if it's that horrible, it must be stuff that would instantly torpedo the cult. Maybe Joseph Smith's admission, in his own handwriting, that the whole thing was a scam? I'd be very interested to see it.

But Wait, There's More:

Act today and you can get two seer stones and two labens swords for the price of one. Shipping and handling will apply. First 50 callers will also receive a prophet bobble head doll of their choice.

I want a bobble head prophet.

If the sword of Laban actually existed, don't you think ChurchCo would be trotting it out to "prove" the BOM? Oh, right......it's too sacred to mention.

I assume an apologist would argue that the sword of Laban no longer exists...at least not in its original form. The BoM describes a sword with a hilt of pure gold. Such a sword would surely break the first time it was ever used. It's possible that the sword was used at least once in the last 200 years, so we see that the sword was likely broken and discarded at some point...maybe when Joe was running through the woods lugging the plates and fighting off multiple attackers?!

I had a friend (he ordained me elder) who worked there. Also, Grant Palmer got to go in there once with a friend who worked there and even go to handle the seer stones used by Smith.

Here is Grant Palmer's account

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kHsvZooc4Bc&t=21m7s



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/10/2014 05:02PM by kimball.

I read a description of the vault where someone went in there. Rows and rows and shelves and shelves of documents, journals, diaries, books, and non-document-type items in a huge storage room area. According to the person's description, the church doesn't know what it all has since it has not been 100% catalogued.

If they had known what they had, including the real McLellin collection, the lives of two people (who were bombed) would have been saved and Mark Hofmann would have been unmasked much, much earlier as a forger and a liar.

Seer stones, swords...I wonder what else is in there? Joseph's little black book maybe? His left over condoms? Emma's underwear? We can only wonder...

The Rock, from the rock in the hat, is stored by the Church. That's an acknowledged fact. The Church also stores genealogical records underground for safekeeping.

Is the purpose of the vault to store valuable items for future generations, or merely to hide away certain embarrassing things?

There are actually a series of vaults (somewhere between 4 and 7; there was room for growth when the place was built) in Granite Mountain. Most are relatively mundane -- microfilm, microfiche, genealogical records that have not yet been electronically duplicated, pre-computerization church membership records, temple records, etc. Everybody knows the church generates a lot of paperwork. Today, the MRS tracks all that stuff, but the historical info is still in the vault.

Then there's the FP vault, which is a single storage unit at Granite Mountain and is now functionally off-limits to all but the FP and a select few others. The only thing it is known to contain is the seer stones, as verified by Grant Palmer. It is reasonably rumored to contain things like the minutes of the Council of 50, various early and modern church leaders' diaries, and other potentially embarrassing tidbits. Nobody is permitted into it alone.

I've never heard any rumors that the church was in possession of Nephite artifacts, like plates or swords. If they were, pics or other better-founded rumors would have leaked by this point.

I expect that peoples diaries are a huge item kept in the vaults, especially those that contain contemory accounts of events like the first vision, etc. Much of what we have available in the public domain are retrospective accounts of events made years later, making their historocity, using the standards of historical research methods, much less reliable (that is, not necessarily true or false, just less certain in terms of accuracy).

Wow... Really??!

So do you mean "Seer Stones" as in white stones in a bow, or do you mean "seer stone" (singular), a brown, egg-shaped rock?

Seer stones, as in multiple individual rocks that JS used over his 'career' as a treasure seeker. He's believed to have used 3 or 4 at various times, of which the LDS church possesses two.

So, non-attached seer stones, perhaps, would be the best way to define it?

Joseph's stones could usually be found on Fanny's chin.

I think they don't / won't make an inventory of items, documents in the FPV in case someone ever requested it in a court proceeding / subpoena; they could 'honestly' (as if they cared!!) say there isn't an inventory.

They Know ALL the legalities; keeping TSM in the Dark about such 'protects him'.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/10/2014 02:20PM by GNPE.

Mormons tend to keep, revere, store everything related to mormonism. Therefore, my bet is that the vault or vaults are full of 99% utter dreck, plus a very few items of historical value.

My wife is a descendent of Shadrach Roundy, a body guard to Joseph Smith and later to Brigham Young. His journal is in the FP vault, so there must be some information available somewhere about what is in there.

She told this to a co-worker several years ago who personally knew the church historian at the time. This co-worker was certain that he could get a copy of the journal for her. No such luck, the historian turned him down summarily.

Shadrach Roundy, although a body guard to JS and BY, never embraced polygamy. Several years ago when Gordon B Hinkley stated that the church's history was an open book, we just laughed at his ability to lie with a straight face.

So I imagine that this journal would really be a great read...

GPH holds the title for Best modern prophet-liar,
No Doubt!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/11/2014 07:08PM by GNPE.

http://exmormon.org/phorum/read.php?2,1427317,1427317#msg-1427317



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/10/2014 04:51PM by steve benson.

The meeting actually took place at an eastside restaurant near Salt Lake's Trolley Square.

FCI mentioned several people I've known now for over forty years and their relationships with the Q15, and everything he said that I could fact check, I have.

There was nothing inconsistent with his descriptions of the actions of Boyd K. Packer and Gordon Hinckley, and others I've talked to about the "corporate dynamics" of the inner working of LDS, Inc. and how church leaders profited from their working for the church. Dave Twede's revelations in his two presentations here are utterly consistent as well.