Because the second annointing is so hush hush, I have heard from several tbms that there is no such thing. tom phillips is making this all up, Has there been any other current references to substantiate the practice?

I assume you've read this:

http://www.mormonthink.com/glossary/secondendowment.htm

If not, please do :)

At least one guy in our ward. He was home for a year or so from mission president duty in Barcelona and headed for Costa Rica as temple president.

He described it to us in HP group one time. He was so vague about the process that unless you knew what he was talking about you wouldn't connect the dots. Summoned to Salt Lake, meet with GBH, a temple event on a sunday,another event at home later.

The story was interesting at the time, but I didn't connect the dots until learning about the second annointing years later.

There are a lot of things TBMs don't know or care to know. So, yeah, they wouldn't shy away from saying it's all bogus... "because I never heard anyone talk about it Sunday School."

Two weeks ago I spoke briefly with my former bishop before I played some basketball. He said he just wanted to understand why I left so suddenly and try to piece together the pieces. I explained to him that I had come across something said from an "anti-mormon" that I didn't believe was true but then found out that it was real and that the church hid it from me. From there I wondered what else was being hidden and the rest was history.

He then asked what I had come across initially and I said 'second anointing' and he just kind of sat there. I'm not sure he knew anything about it, but if he did he didn't say anything to me about it.

I bet most members have no idea about it.

I’ll agree. Most members have no idea about the Second Anointing.

(NEW LURKERS: Please read Tom Phillips' account):
http://www.mormonthink.com/tomphillips.htm
http://www.mormonthink.com/files/tom-phillips-second-anointing.pdf

The Second Anointing (SA) is called by different names. Sometimes it is referred to as (a) having your calling and election made sure, or (b) having your marriage sealed by the holy spirit of promise. Those phrases are in Bruce R. McConkie’s “Mormon Doctrine”.

Here are two reports:

(1) About 2½ years ago, I had a conversation with a previous stake president, mission president and temple president. He did not come out and say "I've received the SA." But he did say 4 specific things, which when put together, indicated he has had the SA. One of the four was, “I thought when I was a stake president that I knew everything there was to know about the temple.” Translation: “I knew nothing about the SA.”

Of all the people in TSCC (excluding his family), I probably spent more one-on-one time with him personally and professionally for 40+years. The creepy part for me is that I know all the repugnant-dung-drenched-crap he did to my family and to me personally. He has never repented or asked for forgiveness. He is a self-made, completly self-centered, aggrandizing, arrogant, power-craving, stuck-up, Morgbot elitist. I don't think he self-reported his despicable conduct to the COB hierarchy or input negative notations on his personal membership record number. He just sailed onward and upward on the MLM LDS Inc. ladder. Perish the thought that he would self-report and cast a dark shadow on his abhorrent conduct!

(2) About 3 years ago, I had another conversation with the wife of a previous stake president and mission president who had been a stake relief society president. I’ve known her for 45+years. She asked about a familial relationship that had been torn apart by the stake president in my prior example. This couple had separated and divorced. It broke up that family terribly. Temple promises had been (in her words) broken. Her comment to me was, “How will they ever have their marriage sealed by the holy spirit of promise if they don’t even like each other?”

That comment rolled off her tongue so effortlessly. For me, it said it all: she has had her Second Anointing (probably years ago). Her casual remark spoke volumes to me.

Personally, I think the SA is about two issues: First, it helps the TBM Priesthood guy keep the secrets of TSCC. The wife (imo) probably doesn’t know some of the worst, damaging secrets kept by the husband while he was a priesthood executive. Second, it rewards the couple to think their life’s work has been validated in a righteous ritual and they have made it to the highest level in the Celestial Kingdom.

If the SA recipient were to publicly disclose the cult’s dirty laundry, or fail to keep the SA ritual a secret (as mentioned in Tom Phillips’ link above), I suspect that in his/her mind that would be equal to the most damnable of all Mormon invented sins, "denying the Holy Ghost after you have had your calling and election made sure."

Remember, the temple does not mention the word ‘love’. There is no voice in the script where God says, “Please love me and keep your covenants – for all I have will someday be yours.” Rather, in the most holy sacred place (according to Mormons) God needs Lucifer to deliver the punch line: “If you do not walk up to every covenant made in this temple this day – you will be in MY power." Is that love? No. That’s using fear. And out of fear, nearly all SA recipients keep their mouths shut.

---

Also, from Chapter 19: Eternal Life, “Doctrines of the Gospel Teacher Manual,) (2011), 67-69 at https://www.lds.org/manual/doctrines-of-the-gospel-teacher-manual/chapter-19-eternal-life?lang=eng

Paragraph 1: INTRODUCTION, “Caution: Exercise caution while discussing the doctrine of having our calling and election made sure. Avoid speculation. Use only the sources given here and in the student manual. Do not attempt in any way to discuss or answer questions about the second anointing.”

Even the lesson manual uses the FEAR FACTOR, a CAUTION, a THREAT not to discuss or answer questions. WHY? It is the unspoken SECRET of the temple.

This is the key phrase. From the teacher manual.

It doesn't deny the second anointing. It says don't discuss it. If someone privately asked you about the bank you robbed, or the child you killed, would you vociferously deny it happened, or would you say I don't like to talk about that.

If something embarrassed you, you stay mum about it. If something is fiction, you call it fiction.

How is the COB directing people to respond? That's all the proof a rational person should need. The details MAY be wrong, but that is proof it IS a thing.

just plain lost,

I think there is a mentality like "the emperor has no clothes" mentality. Self enforcing.

What, you don't know what the second anointing is? Tst, Tst.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/29/2014 04:25PM by redpill.

My parents had it. I've seen the letter from the First Presidency and I remember them leaving for a weekend to go do it.

Anon for this Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> My parents had it. I've seen the letter from the
> First Presidency and I remember them leaving for a
> weekend to go do it.


You'll have to scan this document one day.

My grandfather had it.

http://exmormon.org/phorum/read.php?2,1373393,1373393#msg-1373393

Doesn't Rough Stone Rolling refer to it? Ask the TBM's what they know about the Kirtland "endowment". It's sounds similar to the second anointing...with the exception of the naked washings that took place beforehand. Ask them to look into exactly what temple work was being performed in Nauvoo before they abandoned the temple.

This Wikipedia entry references church-friendly sources as well:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_anointing

"God needs Lucifer to deliver the punch line: “If you do not walk up to every covenant made in this temple this day – you will be in MY power." -

OK This is the most creepy thing I've heard since I was born. I have said on this board many time that the CULT is pure EVIL. If this line delivered by Lucifer doesn't convince you, nothing ever will so go on your merry evil way.
There is not a human being alive who can keep every covenant every day every minute. SO therefore everyone who attempts to make these covenants is under Lucifer's power. I have said that EVIL runs this CULT forever and this is proof.
I think the second anointing is when Lucifer actually receives that person's soul (in CULT speak). That is why it is so secret, nobody can talk about it. Word will get out that Lucifer runs the CULT (as I've always said).

This site also gives information and church sources regarding the second anointing. http://www.lds-mormon.com/second_anointing.shtml

I know a 1Q70 who discussed it with a number of us. We all jokingly asked when we got to have ours.

I know for a fact that my grandparents got their second endowment this was told to me by a parent after they were told directly by their parents.

My grandparents fit all the 'criteria' for receiving it. They were very wealthy; had held high church leadership positions and were related to a member of the First Presidency.

It is not all made up.

Once in a while in Mormonism, people crack or accidentally spill the beans, like posters have stated above.

One of the most interesting - and denied - claim is that those who receive the second anointing are eligible to see Christ face to face. That was the part I really doubted, although I believed there could be a voice inside their head...

UNTIL one day in Relief Society, the bishop's wife cracked. Her husband was the son of Howard Hunter and is now, I think, still the president of the Oakland Temple. This happened back in the 70's when Relief Society still had their own testimony meeting.

She complained that she had never seen Jesus. She knew she was worthy, she was keeping every commandment and both her husband AND father-in-law had received this privilege, but she had not. She wept.

With what I now know, thanks to Tom Phillips, I would say the likelihood is that second-anointees are told they will be able to see Christ face to face and then they go on their way. As with so many things too sacred to talk about, those who don't see Christ assume it is their fault.

The Emperor's New Clothes principle goes into action and those who have not seen Christ simply say it is too sacred to discuss, leaving the listener with the impression they HAVE had such an experience. But in truth, everyone thinks the others have and are hiding their own shortcoming.


Kathleen Waters

"those who receive the second anointing are eligible to see Christ face to face"

Perhaps those who have failed to see his face, should try making toast or grilled cheese. That works sometimes.

I have seen Christ face to face just as assuredly as Joseph Smith did i.e. in my dreams and imagination.

Or you could look at the back end of a pug.

It could happen any day....

:)

Hi Tom

seekyr Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> "those who receive the second anointing are
> eligible to see Christ face to face"
>
As a former TBM I thought that would be the highest honor to actually see Christ. Then as reality and evidence indicated that even those that received it never saw Christ well that was just another 1 ton brick that continued to crush the shelf into a 100 mile deep pit of lies.

FYI, the son of Church President Howard W. Hunter (was in this order: a Mission President of New Zealand, San Jose CA South Stake President and Oakland Temple President). He finished his Oakland term as president (Oct 31, 2011) and is now President/Director of the Nauvoo, Illinois LDS Visitor's Center and directs the missionaries assigned to the center. He started last year: https://www.lds.org/church/news/print/13-new-visitors-center-directors-to-begin-service-january-2014?lang=eng The last time I spoke to Hunter's wife, she insulted me royally in the Oakland temple lobby -- extremely judgmental and condescending. This is an ultra Mormon royal, elite couple. I'm sure they are NOT telling the truth about Joseph Smith at the Nauvoo Visitor's Center.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 10/29/2014 09:25PM by jiminycricket.

When you first join the church, it's because you claimed to feel something you didn't really feel (burning boosem confirmation). Then they later deem you worthy of gaining exaltation and you claim to have seen something you haven't really seen (Jesus Christ face to face). The church trains people to lie.

It is really hard to believe that Mormons really believe their religion is true, or that Jesus wanders around in the upper room of the Temple in Salt Lake or that Monson is a real prophet and gets revelation etc

But I once many years ago believed we are living in the last days and that the signs in the world were fulfilling biblical prophecy that would bring in a new world with Christ ruling like some kind of dictator and everyone bowing down and what have you! WTF?? lol

Even though it wasn't for too long, I just shake my head at myself. It was a nice delusion thinking I was smarter than the worldly ungodly people.

On #2, aren't all temple marriages sealed by the Holy Spirit of promise?

Sealed couples in the temple are sealed for time and all eternity. They aren't guaranteed anything in the afterlife (e.g. becoming a member of a Godhead) until they receive the Second Anointing. The Mormon temple endowment states: "Brethren and Sisters, if you are true and faithful, the day will come when you will be chosen, called up, and anointed Kings and Queens, Priests and Priestesses, whereas you are now anointed only to BECOME SUCH. The realization of these blessings depends upon your faithfulness." (emphasis added)

The words 'chosen, called up, and anointed' etc. are the code words for the Second Anointing. It all depends on your 'faithfulness' and worthiness and being elected (i.e. nominated) to have the ordinance. (Note: Tom Phillips' account: "My Second Anointing Experience," reveals that after his SA he was asked to 'nominate' other individuals of like worthiness for the ordinance. He said he pondered prayerfully and made his recommendation(s).) Many TBMs think this 'called up' action happens in the next life (at least that is what I once thought). But the hidden secret is that this ordinance is being administered to ultra elite Mormons in 'this life' and then told to keep it a secret.

The 'Holy Spirit of Promise' confers (bestows) upon the anointee that you have kept your covenants and promises to such a righteous degree, that you are guaranteed exaltation in the Celestial Kingdom's highest level. The words spoken by the apostle performing the ordinance probably penetrate the TBM anointee's mind at that point, and the believer really 'thinks' he/she has made it in the afterlife. For the remainder of that person's mortal life he/she feels superior in blessings and everlasting glory/possibilities than all lesser Mormons. They are on par with LDS General Authorities. They are ultra righteous and deserving of what lies out there in God's promised expansive universe. They will create their own worlds/planets, populate them with their own spirit children and repeat the cycle that the current Mormon God and mortal earthlings are experiencing.

The anointing allegedly secures the promise that: all that the Lord hath in all the universe shall be yours; there is no more mortal testing required; all one's earthly sins are forgiven by the washing of your feet; you've been valiant in Mormonism's 'second estate' and you've passed the exam; you've overcome the world, proven yourself 'perfect enough' and you have won the afterlife's Godhood prize. All you have to do now to secure the grand crown is two things: don't commit murder and don't deny the Holy Ghost (whatever that really means).

Tom Phillips...did I get it right?



Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 10/30/2014 08:54AM by jiminycricket.

Is the actual language and transcript for the second anointing available or only kept with the temple presidents and the Q15?

Was it leaked?

Tom Phillips's account is here: http://www.mormonthink.com/files/tom-phillips-second-anointing.pdf

Another source that has tons of details about the temple is: "The Mysteries of Godliness: A History of Mormon Temple" Worship by David J. Buerger (Dec 15, 2002). I have only read portions of Buerger's book. I've read sections on-line. He goes into detail listing the number of second anointings from the early days and early temples of the church. Steve Benson quotes from the book a lot when he needs to. Buerger is a nice, super smart guy. I've known him for years. He's one of those disease germs Boyd K. Packer doesn't like, 'an intellectual.'

Thanks jiminycricket.

I've enjoyed Tom Philips account. I'll have to listen to the audio again because I don't quite remember if Tom stated on audio or posted it somewhere here on rfm as to what his thoughts were when Christ never had that "face to face" meeting with him. He left the SA experience thrilled and amazed. It later searching for answers to other gospel doctrines that really made him question the TSCC claims and then declared it wasn't true. So, perhaps not having Christ show up Tom Phillips might of though he still wasn't worthy or that Jesus didn't think he was ready to receive that face to face.


Again -- nothing official from the church in form of a transcript, laminated card, or instruction book related to how to administer the second anointing has been produced. Must be kept with the Q12 & FP or only verbally communicated on how to do it.

Yeah, I got it about being "anointed only to become such". But for some reason, somewhere in my memory I remember hearing something about the "holy spirit of promise" being related to being sealed. But I looked up the wording just now and it isn't in there for the sealing ordinance. I must have my wires crossed on this one.

Alls I got was a second annoying.