Recently Ive read comments by Mormons in other online forums and the gist of their belief is roughly: "You antis or exmormons aren't accomplishing anything other than tearing down the LDS church."

I find they suffer from a distinct lack of ability or desire to understand what we are doing here. They mislabel us. They mischaracterize.

The questions I would ask them in response are:

- Is a fireman tearing down when rescuing a person from a burning building?
- Is a rescue worker tearing down when saving a person from flood waters?
- Is a family member tearing down while attempting to rescue a loved one from an abusive relationship?
- Are detectives tearing down while stopping ponzi schemes?

Spreading truth and rescuing people from abusive organizations doesn't require the rescuers to offer a replacement organization or church. Saving is about stopping the wrong behavior so as to allow the person to see reality. After that, the rescued person is free to choose a new path.

+1

I've frequently heard from TBMs that you shouldn't attack what other people believe. You should only promote your new beliefs.

Another common argument is that you can't tear the Church down unless you have something better to replace it.

That's the same as asking: If I stop smoking marijuana, what would I smoke? Do you have a better drug? You don't? Then stop insisting that I stop using it.

That's exactly where the conversation went with my cousin and lifelong best friend...when he could no longer provide any defense for the Church, he went right to, "do you have anything better?"



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/29/2014 09:56AM by london.

My reply would be, yes I have ME. I trust my own intuition now and it is wonderful.

Exactly. And I have truth and my conscience and mind whole, at least on this subject, rather than lies and distortions and claims full of holes that leave me feeling empty and mind-raped.

When it comes to eternal products, there is no shortage of salesman spouting claims. Where are the eternal products based on truth and sound logic? I have seen none offered by anyone. So the knowledge that I don't know the answer to some things in life is all that i should expect. To expect me to replace a false eternal claim with another is a fools errand and the expectation tells a lot about the asker.

So Mormons say "You shouldn't attack other peoples' beliefs." What about the Joseph Smith story in the Pearl of Great Price where he asks what church he should join?

"I was told to join none of them, for they were an abomination ..."

They don't see themselves as in a burning building surrounded by rising flood waters while being abused and cheated. They believe they are happy, and, to go by my TBM relatives, they actually are. Deluded, but happy. And they see us as trying to spoil their happiness.

I think happiness is subjective. There are all sorts of ways on this planet to be happy -- including ways that make other people unhappy. I don't try to rescue happy Mormons. But I'm there for those who are unhappy and suspect the church is the problem.

Agreed. I too try not to disrupt someones delusion unless they're pushing it on me.

Except that it's not that hard to offer a replacement. Yes, it's true that a fireman does not have to offer a replacement house in order to be justified in rescuing a person from a burning house. Yet, one can infer that all houses are not burning, just the one the fireman's rescuing from is burning. That's the justification for a Mormon saying, what's better?

The marijuana example is somewhat similar, if one were an atheist, the answer would be all religions are similar to drugs, therefore, stopping someone from using marijuana is not an invitation to switch to another drug. But whether one wants to pursue religion in order to pursue morality, or whether one wants philosophy or some other technique, Mormonism is damaging as a teaching. It's a burning house, but there are houses that are not burning.

Obedience is NOT the first law of heaven. Obedience is the first law of the mafia, the communist party, all criminal, racketeering organizations. Trust in the individual is very low in these organizations. The dangers come not only from the outside, but, especially, from betrayal on the inside. Same with Mormonism. All people have to say is "this is BS," and the money flow stops, the free work stops, the initiating others stops. Just like all MLM schemes, the cronies at the top are not self-sustaining. They need a constant inflow from people who get nothing from the organization, they only pay in. Obedience is first because everyone must continue to insist the emperor's got clothes. As soon as public opinion turns, and says he hasn't got clothes, the castle crumbles.

This kind of abuse potential is exactly why obedience is NOT the first law of morality. Jesus said, "I bring a sword" precisely because courage, compassion, and wisdom--real virtues--rebel against corrupt authority. These virtues overturn authority. These virtues strengthen the inner life of the individual, and thus threaten authority.

Perfection is another Mormon "burning house" concept. Not only is it unreal, it cannot mean anything without constant comparison to something outside of oneself. Perfection, as a word, means "comparison." Thus, to seek perfection is to be constantly jealous. This is immoral too!

Worthiness is another house-afire. Name any principle of Mormonism, and it's generally wrong!

Some good thoughts in this. Thanks. I had'nt thought much about just how fragile the ponzi scheme really is and how obedience and doctrinal control are crucial to the money flow.

"Obedience is not the first law of heaven. Obedience is the first law of the mafia"

Another thread is currently discussing bumper stickers. This would be a great one.

I suppose you could say something along the lines of nothing can be rebuilt that is not already torn apart, and you are simply sewing up the rents in the torn up, worn out, garment that is the LDS church.

This is a complaint that I heard from my parents, when I decided to leave the fold.

I think this kind of mind set assumes that a person who leaves the LDS faith is only an anti-Mormon. Given the enormity of the change in a person's life that leaving Mormonism poses--this may even be temporarily true.

However, I would like to think I put far more effort into the other things that I'm building up at work, in my family, in my new friendships and associations, and donating money to organizations that are doing work that I believe in. I'm just not wasting time building up Mormonism anymore.

Now sure, we all take a bit of time to post or do other things that expose the LDS Church for what it really is. But it really does not take that much effort. In some ways, following the ongoing bumblings of the LDS hierarchy is a bit of a harmless hobby. We all need some of those to make life fun.