Hi all -

I have been with RFM for the past two years. I love you people! I am officially out though my family is still attending. So you get the picture. My oldest who is 15, wants out, but attends for the sake of DW. However, my son, ambushed me last night asking what I think about teenagers having sex. He knows I am out and I do not react to situations that TBMs would.

I told him, umm. I grew up saying no to sex until marriage because church told me so. Now, with my differing beliefs, what should I say? My son doesn't want Mom to know his thoughts. He said everyone does it at school. He is tired of saying no every time. Though I am proud of him for his resolve of late, what about now?

I told him that I do not support or goes against the idea of having sex before marriage. It is a wonderful thing to share between two consenting people. It is a process that shouldn't be taken lightly. It comes with risks. If you want to do it, it comes with a responsibility. It may happen that you get STDs. It may happen that the girl get pregnant. Everything is possible. Do you want to risk that?

I told him that I would encourage him to wait until he is older and if possible, until marriage. But I also said, it is up to him to make the decision, however, he knows what I have said on the subject. I was kinda proud at how I approached the subject at different levels. I just was not prepared when he asked me these questions. It shows that he trusts me as a parent being a teenager and all.

Now I am torn with what I have said and how I should say anything to my DW. Sometimes I walk a fine line how I discuss secular things while trying to appease the family with church issues. It is always a circus act. Any of you experience that? How did you approach these things?

One thing I did, which I felt I was honest with myself, in how I gave my advice to my son. He decided not to partake the sacrament one day because he didn't feel he was worthy, despite not believing in the church. I didn't understand his line of thinking. However, it appears that the bishop got note of that and whisked him in his office one Sunday. He pored my son to "confess" what was wrong and to repent.

It infuriated me. How dare you, bishop, to lay these things on my son? I told my son, guilt is man-made. Sacrament bread is just bread. You don't have to say anything to the bishop. Be happy with yourself. If they want to play guilt cards with you, just nod and move on. Say that all is well. Allow them to leave you alone. I am tired of the "moral police" going on.

I remember when I was his age, I was a ultra TBM. I was puzzled at the number of questions grilled at me to "make sure" I was not hiding anything. I remember when I had an interview with the stake president and I had nothing to hide. He said that he was prompted to ask me the questions again. Well, I said nothing covert. He seemed disappointed that I have no sins to confess.

Again, it is difficult when you share some advice with your son which you will not share with your DW. It is a fine line I walk trying to make things bearable for everyone. I love them! Sorry I was rambling long. Again, any advice would be appreciated.

Cheers,

K

It seems like your son is feeling pressure to go with the herd, but in this case the herd is his classmates rather than the LDS church.

More teens are having sex than when I was in HS but I doubt "everyone" is actually having sex. I wonder what % aren't having sex but are lying so as to not seem like the odd one out amongst their peers. So your son feels like he's the only one NOT having sex and being the outlier.

Use a condom, and like I told my two sons I would rather you do it down stairs instead of the back seat of some parking lot. When they were 16-17 I told them don't steel beer from me when you are going to a house party and don't use a bootlegger, come ask and I will give you a couple of cans of beer. They are going to do it so let them do it in the safest way possible.

janebond462 Wrote:
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> It seems like your son is feeling pressure to go
> with the herd, but in this case the herd is his
> classmates rather than the LDS church.

That's an excellent point to make. Stress the importance of deciding when and whether to do things when you are ready, not because "everybody is doing it" (and they're probably NOT all doing it, anyway, but just talking up a big game in many cases).

My son's 18. Not raised in the morg or any other church. At 14 I took him out for a burger, we ate in the park, and I had "the talk" with him. My position was that marriage isn't "required" for having sex, but thought and responsibility are. I explained STDs (not in an alarmist way), the consequences of getting someone pregnant, and we talked about making decisions that help him reach his goals, rather than hinder him from doing so. In the end, I told him that if he wanted to just screw some girl for fun, he was going to hear from me about selfishness, irresponsibility, and stupidity...but if he was in a relationship and they both felt they were ready to have sex, then to be safe and smart...and enjoy it.

I'm 99% sure he hasn't had sex yet. Though he's in a committed relationship now with a very nice girl, they've been together for 6 months, and I suspect it's imminent. As long as they're safe and smart, it's OK with me. :)

Good luck with yours.

I don't think most teens have the maturity level to handle a sexual relationship. Girls especially often equate sex with love and this is not a healthy place to be. Guys leave themselves open to charges of rape and/or coercion as their partner is not usually sufficiently mature to give a fully informed consent.

Once you are a self-supporting, emotionally mature adult....go for it, married or not.

+ I would be concerned about (Besides unplanned pregnancy and std's):

* 17 year old males can be charged as an adult in this country.

Sex crime accusations can be extremely damaging to a person's reputation, especially when the charges involve having sexual contact with a minor.


And
* Delinquency of a minor against Male or against adults who allow minors to have sex on their property?

I disagree....outside of Mormons and a few others everyone I know lost their virginity while they were teenagers.

I learned that when my kids said "everyone", whether it be sex, rumors, opinions, or fashion, it turned out it was usually only one or two kids.

Having sex just to "do it" could be a way to "Just get it out of the way and stop wondering"; that might a good thing for some kids, damaging or at least disappointing for others.

Getting heavy without going all the way is probably OK for kids that late 16 and 17, even though most of them still don't have a clue what it's all about--that's the problem with the hormones being years ahead of the brain....

As the mother of a teenaged boy, I just want to give you a standing ovation! You did an outstanding job as an ex-mo dad. Just make sure your son has access to to condoms. And, no, the wife doesn't need to know everything. Some subjects are faather-son.

;o)

you have to decided the message here, and then realize that you can't deliver this in just one talk.

I have a teenage son and these were my priorities at this point:

Don't get anyone preggo. No matter what you listen to from my or anyone else. You'd be surprised how many girls actually try o in HS to get out of their home and "catch" a guy.

Don't get an STD.

Sex is a very powerful experience that binds people. Just because you don't believe in Mormonism (we live in Utah) does not mean the opposite of their beliefs are true. If you do that with a lot of people, you will loose your ability to have it mean something, this will become a problem later. A relationships is like a pyramid. You build it with experiences, friendship and time then at the pinnacle is sexual intimacy. If you have someone like that in your life and you both want to take that step, then go back to point #1 above. Many kids your age start with the sex and try to build a relationship after that. Its like building a pyramid upside down. So many move on to another partner and wonder why it did not work out. Explain what a slut (male or female) is.

Tell him/her that you love her no matter what and your position as a parent is to guide them in keeping them free to enjoy life after they stop being teenagers but that you will support them no matter what, even if they date a slut who gets knocked up and gives them AIDS :)

I recommend the secular book Smart Sex: 501 Reasons to Hold Off on Sex by Pogany.

Telling kids premarital sex is a sin just isn't enough. At BYU, we were told that the number of people who had engaged in premarital sex was no different then the general population. I really doubt that number has changed.

And then there is the issue of underage drinking and girls not being able to "consent" to sex and parents of the girls calling it RAPE and going after the teenage boys.

"And then there is the issue of underage drinking and girls not being able to "consent" to sex and parents of the girls calling it RAPE and going after the teenage boys."

If one partner does not consent - either by saying no directly or by being unable to consent (asleep, drunk) - it IS rape.

Hikergrl I find your comment offensive. It implies that there are tons of teenage girls out there falsely calling rape. In reality women are more likely to be raped than to falsely report a rape. The Centers for Disease Control estimates that nearly 1 in 5 women have been raped at least once during their lifetime.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation-now/2014/09/07/cdc-rape-women-statistics/15239361/

To the OP, sounds like you did great on your conversation. And you paved the way for keeping the lines of communication open in the future, which is important.

lolol 1/5 have been raped? that's a joke do the math 330 million people, divide by two = 165,000,000 women and 1/5 raped = a little over 35,000,000 women that are living in the USA today are raped? .... what is your definition of rape? My definition is when somebody inserts a pen is into a woman when she says NO. That stat is a joke, America would have to build 50,000 more jails if half those rapists we caught.

If anyone is so drunk they cannot consent to the act, nor form intent to do so, if they are THAT drunk and incapacitated?

It IS rape.

Or at the very least, sexual assault.

Tell boys not only to watch out for girls trying to "catch" them or get pregnant by them.

Tell boys not to be rapists, nor blame the girl for "letting him" rape her, while we're at it.

Teach your kids, both boys and girls, that BOTH parties need to consent and BOTH parties need to be sober enough to say yes. Period.

The UK has a video series out on abuse and rape, for everyone to watch. Some posted that here, some time ago. I can't remember who, but here it is, again:

http://thisisabuse.direct.gov.uk/

A good rule of thumb is: if I have talk myself into something right now, it is definitely going to be the trouble I have to talk myself out of, later.

Likewise, if I am not 100% sure this is ok for me to do right now, then I can 100% choose to just not do it, and save it for another time.

And, condoms, condoms, condoms. Always.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/27/2014 01:47PM by bookratt.

Under aged drinking in Germany doesn't exist and in Alberta its 18 and we don't have a rape or disease epidemic. Hookers a different story, the high school girls I saw were clean and safe and my two boys always skinned up. Both are university grads and were letter athletes.

That is very true--but problems with very young and unsupervised kids drinking to excess there, is not nonexistent. The supervision of kids drinking at home or of kids at age 14 drinking alongside parents in bars or pubs, where they learn how to do it in moderation and learn how much is too much, is a great idea, there or anywhere.

In Poland and Russia where very young kids drink a lot, and to excess, but not that often in the presence of their parents, but alone or in large groups, this sort of thing is a HUGE problem.

And regardless of that issue, rape does exist in Germany so it behooves a parent of a boy or a girl to talk to them about that, to say what it is, and how to avoid or prevent it.

http://www.nationmaster.com/country-info/stats/Crime/Rapes/Per-capita

Whether you believe your kids are sexually active or not, or you believe they are drinking alcohol or not, it may come up when they and you are least aware it might. So be prepared by talking about it, together.

My son is 6'4'', muscular, and sort of a cross between Brad Pit and Matt Damon. That guy has been hit on by more women than I can count. It started when he was 13 too. It's amazing how forward some young ladies can be. I raised him as a morgbot, but when he was 16 I left the church. We then began having very similar conversations as you and your son. I played it like you, and stressed how risky the behavior is in catching a disease, "it's like playing Russian roulette", I remember saying. Listen, if given the opportunity often enough, he will have sex, and once he does, he'll want to continue obviously. Just keep talking about safety measures - although sometimes I think it goes in one ear and out the other at that age to be honest.

I guess I would say,"It is your life and you need to follow your heart. I can't tell you what to do. I don't want to control you. I love you for who you are and you need to make your own choices. Just think of the risks in what you do, whether is is speeding down a country road in your car or having sex. Is it worth it? Sometimes the answer is yes, sometimes no."

Then I might ask him what some of the risks would be in having sex and start a discussion about condoms not being 100% effective and STDs. I might also talk about what sex represents in a relationship (like I have a clue) and discuss his feelings about a prospective mate.

I have some issues with what nature is telling a young horny male, what society (movies, tv) are telling him and what is socially acceptable in many circles. No wonder he is confused.

Good luck and remember you are only human too and doing the best you can with what you have. I might even tell him, I have no clue. I was raised mormon and thought I should chop my dick off because I couldn't stop masturbating. LOL.

I think you handled it well, in fact, I had a similar sex talk with my oldest teen. Of course we know sex can come with a lot of issues, especially being young and inexperienced and maybe not emotionally mature. I encouraged dd to wait until she was older and in a committed loving relationship, or even better engaged (maybe wishful thinking?). I outlined all of the problems sex can bring, STDs and pregnancy and gave her some real life scenarios. After all that, I said that I'm always here for her to talk to, if she had any questions etc and if she chooses to participate in sex I expect her to do so safely and thoughtfully.

Ps - I think I would not mention this to his mom. That has potential to go nuclear.

It's so strange to me to be having these conversations with my kids. I was raised as a good little Morg, always endlessly told and harped upon that sex is a sin until marriage. As a result, I never ever went to my parents with questions, always kept from them if I had a boyfriend (boyfriends were extremely discouraged). So it's weird (and wonderful) to me that my kids open up and tell me all about their lives.

At his age, it's statutory rape in most places, even consenting. Remeber that case in FLorida with the lesbian teens. Parents of one partner decided to press charges. It's not worth the legal risk til he's older and so is his partner.

I think you did a great job talking with your son about sex. All teenagers need to be advised of and reminded of the larger perspective than their little high school universe provides. Parents need to give them the information and remind them to make their own decisions, not to just follow the crowd. People who think for themselves and have control over their actions are always respected, admired, and looked up to no matter what. Plus, you can respect yourself! Everyone still makes mistakes, but at least a person who makes their own decision after thinking for themselves knows they are doing their best and learning from it as well.

I'm sorry you are in this situation with your DW. My spouse left TSCC with me, so I cannot imagine how hard it is to navigate that relationship and still stay close. Remember that these are your children too, so you have the right to teach them what you believe as well. I think you should clarify for your son that just because TSCC teaches some good things, that does not automatically mean they are the one true church. One must again look at the big picture. It sounds like he can see there is something wrong with the church, but is still bound by the fear that he will be damned if it is true and he leaves. The belief and fear that being raised in TSCC instills is real and powerful.

I would slowly point out instances where TSCC does not teach the right things for the right reasons the right way. Maybe talking with him about how the bishop treated him is a good situation to explore. What is the difference between the way you handle things and the way the bishop deals with him? Who shows they truly care for him and want him to have a successful, happy life? Also, you will likely have to show him the hard evidence that the church is not true (BofA issues, probs w/first vision, rock in the hat BS, etc.) if you want him to feel comfortable leaving it behind for good.

I would tell that bishop that he is NOT authorized to grill your son like that, so he better watch himself. You may have to put up with DW teaching him something you do not believe, but you will not tolerate it from him.

You are doing a great job.

What does church have to do with sex? Because it is mentioned in the scriptures, I suppose? I always thought it was none of anyone's business, except your parents. I was a virgin when I got married in the temple, which means I was a virgin at BYU. No one believed that I was--and it was nobody's business that I was. I was not celibate for religious reasons! I had the same reasoning as khark has. There are simply too many risks! I didn't want to ruin my future, or limit my choices.

Congratulations on giving your son control over his own life. You gave him good advice and logic to make his own decisions. The decision to not have sex probably comes up every other day, at your son's age, and on until he is married. This has nothing to do with his bishop who probably had premarital sex. The bishop is not trained as a sex therapist, which your son doesn't need, anyway, because he is normal and he can talk to YOU.

I agree that your wife doesn't need to enter into male sex conversations, and she has no right to force your son into private, invasive, personal interviews with a bishop--behind closed doors--separate from both parents. That's just creepy.

forestpal Wrote:
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> ...and she has no right to
> force your son into private, invasive, personal
> interviews with a bishop--behind closed
> doors--separate from both parents. That's just
> creepy.

And abusively injurious......in my own personal opinion.

I had these talks with my son as my circumstances were the same as yours.

I listed the reasons why he should not partake.

Can't see diseases with feelings that someone was telling the truth. Need a microscope and access to others privy parts for that

The big "M" is quite normal. Go for it when needed. Guilt about it is a religious lie.

Here is the big one. IF, you get her preggers you are screwed.
You can't financially support THEM. Life will suck and you will most likely be chasing the poor train for the next 20-30 years.

If she raises the child herself you will most likely be paying child support for the next 19-26 years. Even if you don't marry that child is yours FOREVER, even though you may not wind up seeing it again. That will be the true nightmare for a few minuets of excitement.

Told him how to protect him/her with protective devices but also told him that she could lie if the big P happens and that could be a whole other nightmare.

Told him that if someone got pregnant after what he had just learned that I was out financially. I was not going to be responsible for his now "adult" decisions whether he was 16 or not.

So far so good. He's now 20.

I didn't read the whole thread b/c I'm running late, but...

My friends that had an understanding that their body and virginity are theirs, to do with what they want, are the ones who made the healthiest decisions, in retrospect.

Yes, talk about safety and condoms, but also talk about making good choices you will want to live with forever. Talk about showing respect to the girl (or guy) he is with. Talk about showing that respect to himself, and that sex will come, for sure, but waiting isn't a bad thing, either.

I tend to think that 15 is too young, but many of us here did it and lived to tell the tale. At least if he makes that decision he won't be laden with guilt and shame the way many of us were.

So much good advice above.

Sex is a subject that we talk openly about in our house. I have a 17 yr. old son and I tell him constantly, "Don't stick your dick in crazy."

He knows exactly what I mean by that. (And it's not as simplistic as it sounds.)

ROFL!

Father of four young adult exmo kids, all sexually active.

I would make just a few observations.

First, kudos to you for your approach and willingness to be a person first in your relationship with your son, and a parent second. It sounds like you are on the right track.

Second, do all you can to keep the nosy church leaders out of your family's business -- especially the young people. Get out in front of this if you have to by telling the bishop that his inquiries about your son's conduct are permanently off limits and they are not to ever happen again without his explicit receipt of your permission in each and every case. Many here are full of stories of the abusive nature of these interviews to themselves and their families.

Third, I have successfully used the "wagon wheel" analogy with my own kids and others. Let your son know that healthy relationships are like a wagon wheel in the sense that every key element is like a spoke in the wheel. While sex is an important part, it represents only a single spoke. Uninformed relationships focused on only one or few spokes are doomed and will not turn out well in the end.

Next, once a kid enters the adult world the potential increases for events or choices to result in irreparable consequences. It's not your opinion as a parent, nor is it a moral speech, it is just the facts -- true for him and for every other adult. The imperative to treat sex in a way that respects its power to alter your world forever is paramount! If there was ever a time to step up and practice responsibility this is it.

Lastly, I would say that on balance I am very relieved my own children have learned how to conduct some patient due diligence in their romantic lives -- including the exploration of sexual relationships. I have seen several romantic relationships come and go (thankfully) where it was clear as glass to me that there were fundamental incompatibilities that would be very hard to manage (if not impossible). Seeing sexuality in its appropriate context as merely another key, but not preeminent, feature of a desirable and healthy relationship was (IMO) extremely useful for my kids in the process. Too many mormons are so sexually fucked up that by the time they actually have any sex it is so overblown and enmeshing that they stay in unbelievably unhealthy situations over it.

Trust me. The mormon kids are having lots of sex and attending church on Sunday. Our teenagers are pretty open with us and tell us what their friends, LDS and nonLDS are doing.

I don't think my kids have "done it", but realistically, I can't stop them. I think they are more likely to make healthy choices because they are making decisions with a view to how the consequences will affect them personally, not as some power struggle with a church. I want them to make wise choices by thinking things through. I don't think it is worth destroying their self-esteem with mountains of guilt as was done to me.

The key word is CONSEQUENCES. Point out to him how his life changes with an STD or a pregnant girlfriend. Encourage him to keep it in his pants.

You're doing a great job. I would tell him that it's not a good idea to have sex in high school, and that everyone *isn't* already doing it even if it seems that way. I would also tell him that if he gets a girl pregnant, he will likely be paying a lot of money to her for a very long time. Also, he should always be using a condom and have his partner use another form of birth control as well.

I've got teenaged daughters. We have always been very open about sex. I've told them my perspective, which is that there are a lot of potential negatives that might happen, and that you are better off protecting yourself from those negative consequences as much as possible. I think it's best to wait at least until the late teen years.

But it is their body and I don't get to make those decisions for them. I have offered (and have had my offer taken up on) to make sure they have effective, long lasting contraception and access to condoms.

In your situation, I wouldn't bring it up with my wife. It's not your place, it's your son's if he so chooses.

I would tell the bishop that under no circumstances can he interview my kids without be being there, period.