One of the biggest lies the 15 Board of Directors tell us is that "they will never lead us astray." Clearly, a rational person will admit that history suggests otherwise.

At any rate, I would argue that the Brethren have very little chance of ever offering good advice. When assumptions are flawed, the decisions that are made from those assumptions are also flawed. Put another way, "Garbage In = Garbage Out." It is really that simple.

Look at all of the faulty assumptions the Q15 is operating under:

1. They believe that they are God's only spokesmen on earth
2. They believe in the divine calling of Joseph Smith
3. They believe that previous prophets have gotten it right
4. They believe in false scripture such as the BoM, BoA, etc.
5. They believe that they are wise men even though they are totally lacking in objectivity

I could go on forever but the point is that since they are operating under so many false assumptions, they are utterly incapable of producing good results. Again, it is really a case of "Garbage In = Garbage Out."

Another way of saying, "we will never lead you astray" is to say that "we will never give you really, really bad advice or directives." The Mountain Meadows Massacre would suggest otherwise. Gay genital shock "therapy" at BYU is another example.

It's leading the people astray to claim, "We will never lead you astray."

And, of course, that claim is in direct opposition to their claim that they are NOT infallible, that they are imperfect men.

We will never encourage women to forgo education and instead get married and start popping out babies as soon as possible. Then if their husbands die or desert the family, the mother is screwed. But we'd never suggest that.

We would never tell our black members they aren't worthy of going to the temple, because that could cause a lifetime of heartache. So, we'd never suggest that.

We'd never encourage really young people to get married as soon as possible, because that would lead to depression in many cases so we'd never suggest that.

We would never made black and white statements on complex issues such has the nature of homosexuality, because that would break up many families and lead to many LGBT kids getting kicked out of their homes, increasing their chances of suicide or prostitution to support themselves. So we'd never suggest that.

We would never design a temple ceremony where the husband convents with God but the wife convents with the husband because of the inherent sexism and the opportunity that creates which allows monsters to abuse their wives in the name of the Lord. That would be despicable behavior not only for the abusers but also those who created and maintained that system so we'd never suggest that.

Yeah, we will never lead you astray.

Never lead us astray???

YOU LIE ABOUT EVERYTHING THAT SHOULD CAUSE US TO QUESTION THE VALIDITY OF JS AND THE CHURCH!

F'n liars!

They will never lead the church astray and will not.

Here's why.

This little statement functions as a tautology. The leaders will never lead you astray, because wherever they lead is not astray.

Sort of works like one that fundamentalist Christians use: the Bible is the infallible word of God. Why? Because the Bible says so.

Isn't it wonderful isn't it marvelous.

it's like George Bush saying that everything he did was legal because he was the president.

and I'd still like to call the bishop on that, but I can't find his address. His wife was asking my ex's co-workers about us just recently and we've been married/separated 30 years. Like it was HER business. She was spreading rumors about what she had heard and they were dead wrong. I always come out in a bad light. Obviously, it must be my fault my ex is still gay.

They told me it was my job to save my gay husband. In no uncertain terms. I was told what would I say to God when I saw him "again" about why I gave up on this sacred responsibility he had entrusted me with. I had another opportunity (several in fact). I was dating 2 other Mormons, 1 very seriously, and a nonmormon who tried to talk me out of marrying my husband. He didn't know what was going on, but he knew that I was very depressed.

I feel there are reasons I was with my ex. At the same time, I believe I could have taken a different road. There still would have been problems, so I guess taking this one was okay.

BUT, you bet they led me astray and they have told nonsequiter the same thing. He is still very young and he has had leaders tell him to marry a woman. I got married over 30 years ago. They say they don't tell gays this anymore. How many lives have they destroyed? Left us to pick up the pieces? It was amazing how quickly the leaders who told me to marry my ex abandoned me when he left me. Obviously, I failed. Not them. Even my very, very good friend abandoned me over this. It was as though I had the plague.

I remember being taught, (and this could just be some local dodo leader, I don't remember where this came from), that even if you are led astray by a leader, you will not be held accountable as you will be rewarded for your obedience even if God lets you be led astray by his leader.

This is so messed up. What they are teaching is blind obedience with a "get out of jail" free card.

I have been wanting to ask some of my TBM relatives; "If Monson told you to drink poison cool aid would you do it?" Still biting my tongue on that one.

This statement is another way of telling people to trust them. And I instantly distrust someone who feels the need to TELL me to trust without condition, and put my own judgement and perceptions aside.

What kind of person would dare to ask other people to hand over responsibility for their actions and beliefs to himself (it's always a man) or to a third party?

How could that EVER be okay?

+1

Joseph Smith said it best:

"We have heard men who hold the priesthood remark that they would do anything they were told to do by those who preside over them [even] if they knew it was wrong; but such obedience as this is worse than folly to us; it is slavery in the extreme; and the man who would thus willingly degrade himself, should not claim a rank among intelligent beings, until he turns from his folly. A man of God would despise the idea. Others, in the extreme exercise of their almighty authority have taught that such obedience was necessary, and that no matter what the saints were told do by their presidents they should do it without any questions. When Elders of Israel will so far indulge in these extreme notions of obedience as to teach them to the people, it is generally because they have it in their hearts to do wrong themselves"

Wow. This quote is pure gold. Thanks!

you are welcome. here is the reference:

Millennial Star, Vol 14, Number 38, pages 593-595. (Apostle Samuel Richards on Nov. 13, 1852, recorded in the Millennial Star, 14:393-395.)

I need context. Is he saying don't follow the president of the US or what?

Thanks sb for that terrific quote. I wish I had it during a recent discussion with my sibling.

Redpill said, "I have been wanting to ask some of my TBM relatives; "If Monson told you to drink poison cool aid would you do it?" Still biting my tongue on that one."

I said almost the same thing to my TBM sister who is a Stake Relief Society President. She follows everything the profit dictates. Here are three examples:

1. Me: What if the profit said to pick-up and move to Utah for safety, and you only have a week to do it?

Ans: We'd leave everything behind and move in with relatives in Utah.


2. Me: What if the profit said to jump into this live volcano, and you would go to the celestial kingdom.

Ans: I'd do it because he's the profit. But, he would never ask us to do something so crazy.


3. Me: What about Brigham Young telling folks that it is righteous behavior to kill someone because you're doing them a favor?

Ans: BY would never have said that.

Me: But he taught 'blood atonement' where certain sins such as apostasy, adultery and marrying into the black race are so grievous that even Jesus' atonement doesn't cover their sins, therefore you are doing them a favor by spilling their blood to atone for their sins.

Ans: That's anti-Mormon lies.

Me: I can show you the discourses in the Journal of Discourses published by the church.

Ans: That was then, and BY was acting as a man, not a profit, so he WASN'T LEADING ANYONE ASTRAY.

---
I gave up with her. I can't have any discussion with this nutball Morgbot rationalization gunk stuck in her grey matter. It's so frustrating isn't it?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/27/2014 12:38PM by jiminycricket.

thsi is a great read on where that false doctrine began:How To Become An Apostate In One Afternoon @ http://puremormonism.blogspot.com/

As per usual, the egomaniacs who run TSCC want to have it both ways. One conference they prop up their most sexiest and good-looking mouthpiece to humbly admit mistakes, and the word goes out to tell all the antis that prophets are only human and thus will err from time to time. The next conference they're back to the old "we will NEVER, we CANNOT ever lead you astray," so follow everything we say! They will say and do whatever it takes to keep the cash and accolades coming. They do not care one whit who they hurt or how. It is all about their wealth and status. The amazing thing is that somehow it makes sense to TBMs that these clowns make mistakes, but you should follow them with exactness because they will never lead you astray. "We will never lead you astray" actually means, "we will never lead you to stop giving us money and worshipping us."

Again, I no longer treat mormons with kid gloves because I wish that in my TBM delusion SOMEONE, ANYONE would have held up a mirror and said, "Really, this makes sense to you? Ya, this is complete bullsh*t, and any thinking person could see that if they would just think for one minute about what they are actually doing."

OK, I get that the cult advises its members to get married--to whoever--gay, straight, abusive, arrogant--as long as you get married in the temple. All of the advice serves the cult, and the members can just pray it all away. It happened to me, when I married an abusive RM, who had a hidden history of assault and battery. He had also beaten his sister and put her into the hospital, and had killed several neighbors' pets. All the church leaders I knew, including my own GA relative and my parents, advised me to marry him, even when I had a bad case of "pre-wedding jitters." I should have run, when my heart told me to.

An unqualified lay leader in a church should not give marital advice, psychological counseling, career guidance, sexual advice. Scientific advice. How about medical advice I got from my bishop, HT, and the stake presidency: "Keep on fulfilling your sacred church callings, and God will give you the health and strength to carry them out. If you quit your callings, you will get sicker."

"Vote for Romney. Vote for Huntsman. Support Proposition 8."

What TSCC wants is for its members to follow BLINDLY. "The thinking has been done. Don't ask questions. Don't investigate. If your heart is telling you to go against church advice, then your heart is being led by Satan."

What got me through my lifetime of Mormon oppression, was outside reading and learning, and the rule I learned at a very dear price: "To follow the heart is the truest wisdom"--Leo Tolstoy. If I had listened to my own heart, I never would have shunned people of other races, never would have married a wife-beating thug, never would have obeyed my parents and kept quiet about my brother's bullying, would have married my atheist boyfriend. Seeing the Truth about Mormonism, and understanding that I was brainwashed and manipulated from birth, helps me to forgive myself for sacrificing myself to blind obedience.

"Let's go shopping!" I'm going to follow that advice today.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/27/2014 01:18PM by forestpal.

If the prophet told you to chop of the librarians head and steal the last Book of Mormon from the library would you do it?

If your stake president told you to start instituting the practice of polygamy secretly, would you do it? By the way, all the other temple recommend holders are being ask to do it also and many are currently obeying. We have a Merry Miss all lined up for you. Talk it over with your wife and remember your temple covenants.

This is a sick religion.

It's a blanket statement. Without a benchmark or witness stone how would you ever know when you stray?

we make the rules so it is impossible to lead you astray. Whatever is said is always true.

"No, we're not the old batch of prophets who would never lead you astray, even though they DID leave us astray. But we will never lead you astray, until the next batch of prophets throws US under the bus and says we lead you astray."

The church is true!

? where's the quote about 'Blessed for following (questionable, bad) directives / instructions; it will be counted as righteousness'!

Heber C. Kimball, Journal of Discourses, Vol. 6, p. 32, November 8, 1857:

"In regard to our situation and circumstances in these valleys, brethren, WAKE UP! WAKE UP, YE ELDERS OF ISRAEL, AND LIVE TO GOD and non[e] else; and learn to do as you are told, both old and young: learn to do as you are told for the future. And when you are taking a position, if you do not know that you are right, do not take it – I mean independently. But if you are told by your leader to do a thing, do it. None of your business whether it is right or wrong. You will get water, if you dig away. That is rather presumptuous doctrine with some people; but with me it is not."

Red Flag Alert:
Whenever a person, especially a self described prophet of Jesus, says that they will never lead you astray he is actually admitting that he has and will lead anyone astray.
It's a psychological over compensation.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/27/2014 04:12PM by joan.

When I was investigating and first heard the "We will never lead you astray" from a missionary reading something Wilford Woodruff said (if I remember right) it was a red flag to me. I think it was part of some declaration but can't remember now as it's been 7 years since I last attended.

It's like a Ponzi Scam Artist giving his guarantees! Worthless cr*p and more of an obvious assurance and certainty of being misled and scammed.