The question on Zina Huntington Jacobs got me thinking and I might have just experienced a big a-ha moment...

When Joseph Smith was sealed to a woman, whether married or not, was there only ever one type of sealing? For example, Marinda Hyde was married to an apostle before the advent of sealings, but was sealed to Joseph Smith in April 1842 while Orson was away on a mission (dedicating Jerusalem for the return of the Jews, in fact). After Joseph Smith's death she was sealed again in 1846, this time choosing Orson over Joseph Smith for "eternity".

The whole "time" vs. "eternity" distinction/choice seems to have been invented AFTER Joseph Smith's death. My assumption is it was necessary since Joseph had locked up a number of women for "eternity" that were subsequently resealed to other men, but chose to stay with Joseph for "eternity".

Is this correct...did the time-only sealings flare into existence after Joseph Smith's death? If so, that means that ALL of the sealings that took place during his lifetime were of the marital naughty bits variety.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/23/2014 09:07PM by Facsimile 3.

"... did the time-only sealings flare into existence after Joseph Smith's death?"

Do you mean eternity-only?

Anyway, I have thought of this quite a bit myself. I also think that all of his marriages were just that - marriages in every sense of the word and that the whole "eternity" concept came later. Why else would they be re-sealed to JS after his death? It sounds like yet another evolving story.

Do you or does anyone else have a first usage of the word "eternity" within the context of "time and eternity"? That would be interesting to find. I'm pretty sure that the code word was "WAS" for "wedded and sealed". Not sure if "sealed" meant eternity or not. Or if "wedded" meant "time".

Eternity-only or time-only...in other words, I do not think there was any kind of "only" attached to Joseph Smith's sealings while he was alive, but those distinctions arose after his death as his followers tried to make sense of the entire secret sealing thing.

The "sealing" power binds on Earth and in heaven, therefore it seems to me that "sealing" would cover both.

Along the lines of your "wedded and sealed" comment, I would like to know the words from the original sealings that were taking place while he was alive.

Here's an original quote (from Brian C. Hales' website) about Sarah Ann Whitney who was 17 y/o when she married JS:

http://josephsmithspolygamy.org/history-2/plural-wives-overview/sarah-ann-whitney/

===
Verily thus saith the Lord unto my se[r]vant N. K. Whitney the thing that my se[r]vant Joseph Smith has made known unto you and your Famely [Family] and which you have agreed upon is right in mine eyes and shall be crowned upon your heads with honor and immortality and eternal life to all your house both old & young because of the lineage of my Preast [Pirest] Hood saith the Lord it shall be upon you and upon your children after you from generation to generation By virtue of the Holy promise which I now make unto you saith the Lord.

these are the words which you shall pronounce upon my se[r]vant Joseph [Smith] and your Daughter S. A. [Sarah Ann] Whitney. They shall take each other by the hand and you shall say:

you both mutu[al]ly agree calling them by name to be each others companion so long as you both shall live presser[v]ing yourselv[es] for each other and from all others and also through [o]ut all eternity reserving only those rights which have been given to my servant Joseph [Smith] by revelation and commandment and by legal Authority in times passed [past].

“If you both agree to covenant and do this, then I give you S. A. [Sarah Ann] Whitney my Daughter to Joseph Smith to be his wife to observe all the rights betwe[e]n you both that belong to that condition. I do it in my own name and in the name of my wife your mother and in the name of my Holy Progenitors by the right of birth which is of Priest Hood vested in me by revelation and commandment and promise of the living God obtained by the Holy Melchizedek Gethrow [Jethro] and other of the Holy Fathers commanding in the name of the Lord all those powers to concentrate in you and through to your po[s]terity for ever

all these things I do in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ that through this order he may be glorified [glorified] and [that] through the power of anointing Davied [David] may reign King over Iseral [Israel] which shall hereafter be revealed let immortality and eternal life henc[e]forth be sealed upon your heads forever and ever.
===

Looks like it was time and eternity. It was pretty clear this one allowed marital relations in every sense of the word.

"so long as you both shall live presser[v]ing yourselv[es] for each other and from all others and also through [o]ut all eternity"


Very good, and exactly what I would expect of a sealing involving Joseph Smith to a single woman. Two thoughts:

* Did anyone record the words from one of the polyandrous sealings? Now THAT would be an interesting read.

* From the recent essay: "Some of the women who were sealed to Joseph Smith later testified that their marriages were for time and eternity, while others indicated that their relationships were for eternity alone." The source cited is "See Hales, Joseph Smith’s Polygamy, 2:277–302.", followed by a note explaining that genetic testing for plural progeny has come up empty so far.


Does anyone have access to the Hales book? This smells like a very bad interpretation of facts I would like to evaluate myself.

I've been having a hard time with this concept as well. Is "time" not part of "eternity?" If I'm sealed for eternity to my wife, am I not, by default, also sealed to her for time? Is the claim that an eternity-only sealing only gives J.S. "rights" (kind of a disgusting word in this context...) to his wife after death? If that's the case, then I don't think "eternity" means what the Church thinks it means.

Here's an analogy I've been mulling over: If I hold the deed to my house, we would say I own the house. Suppose, however, my friend (we'll call him Joe) has a one year lease to the 4th bedroom. The argument the Church is making regarding eternity-only sealings would be like Joe claiming, "well you were given a deed to the house, but since I have a one year lease to the 4th bedroom, you don't actually own the 4th bedroom until my lease expires." Sorry, Joe. Not true. I do own the house, but I'll let you keep using the 4th bedroom for the next year. Once the lease expires, though, all bets are off! (It kind of disgustingly reduces women to the level of chattel).

The distinction seems meaningless and a pretty silly attempt to try to explain away polyandry. The only argument it helps advance, perhaps, is the no sex argument. "I get her in the next life, not this one, so I won't have sex with her now. I'll wait until then." Chilling to think about.

Besides, it's still shocking to me, even if all the essay claims is taken as true, that God would command (at the threat of death, no less) a married, adult man to marry a teenage girl, even if only for eternity so that she can have the blessing of being sealed in the hereafter. Shouldn't she at least be given the chance to go through puberty and find her own husband (reasonably closer in age) to take her to the temple and be sealed to her? Why is God foreclosing that opportunity for Helen Kimball at 14? Couldn't He at least give her until 18 or so to see if she could find her own husband? I just can't wrap my mind around "divine betrothal" as a heavenly doctrine.

It seems many in that time, and this, didn't or don't understand or think about what "eternity" is. ETERNITY has no beginning and no end. Therefore these "eternal" sealing ceremonies were not only not legal but also impossible. How can something take place on a timeline [on this earth] and still be considered from this point in time (the RIGHT NOW moment) "forever"? There is and can be no such thing as separation between "future eternal" and "present eternal".



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/24/2014 03:02PM by moremany.

"Sealing" is code for can't have sex with this wife. If there is no "sealing" she is fair game. Good old GA Joe looking out for his people.