Ok here it goes. While on a mission in Canada, I saw a missionary expose himself to a little girl in the hallway of the chapel. I was in shock. The other people in the ward must have been devastated. My companion at the time saw it as well. He was AP. That evening, my comp said he is being sent home. This happened 25 plus years ago. I often wonder why I never never had to go to court or if the police were ever notified. I feel sick that I never called the police myself. Back then, in my frame of mind, I thought that was the worst thing possible-being sent home-other than death. God I was so stupid.
For the little girl this happened to, please forgive me for not calling the police. I hope you're well, and I wish I would have done something.

She has probably gotten through it.

Unfortunately

You were a young missionary who didn't know.
cane we ever forgive ourselves for being young?

The tone of the fifties was even worse.
My friend, at age eight was held down at a picnic away from the crownd and fingered hard. She couldn't get away from the man touching her 'down there'.

It gave her nightmares everytime she had stress in her life for the next thirty years.

Her parents thought since no pe**s was involved there was no harm no foul.

The excuse was the man's wife had passed away the year before and the old guy was just 'a bit off'.

On their respective death beds both parents apologized to her for not doing more.

The society they were in just didn;t call the police in those days!



But now they do. Bravo to you for being aware, because I bet you'd get that missionary talking to the cops in a nano second now. Maybe even a cell phone picture if you could manage it.

If you're aware, then the lesson that this is not tolerated was learned.

What you said about the tone of the times is really true.
On my first job, as a teenaged waitress, the patrons routinely reached up my little waitress dress and fondled me while I took their orders. The restaurant's owners and cooks were sexual harassers too. Only there wasn't a word for workplace sexual harassment then. I didn't know crimes were being committed against me that would have landed the perpetrators behind bars in an instant. I've dealt with the trauma of those years my entire life.

I worked for a defense department contractor back in the day when no one thought there was anything wrong with nudey calendars on the walls. One guy even decorated his cubical with advertisements from a Nevada whorehouse. The attitude toward women was "If you can't take the heat, stay out of the kitchen." It floors me now that we actually believed that abusers should be free to abuse and that their victims just needed to toughen up.

The New Jersey coaches responsible for the players in the sexual hazing scandal have been suspended and the season cancelled, even though the team, under that head coach, has been the three-time state champions. Officials have warned that additional seasons may cancelled in the future. In my day, high school hazing was routine, public, and taken for granted. The terrorized students were expected to be grateful for the attention that the popular crowd showed them.

It's repulsive in the extreme.

Now they name it what it truly is....digital RAPE. What a sad story.

People are more gutsy now and don't mind getting in a person's face to confront them about inappropriate behavior.

The person's life can change quickly from freedom to behind bars within days...(out on bail of course, pending trial leading to conviction) assuming there is a good case.

Hopefully the world communication is getting faster and things like this are not tolerated.

Can you remember the country the offending Elder came from?

USA

Out of morbid curiosity, which Canadian mission was this? (I did a Canadian mission and would half-expect it to be the one I was in.)

I disagree that you should have done anything other than what you did. Furthermore, I don't think the prevailing attitude that police should be called for every situation is healthy either. It seems like modern Americans can't deal with anything anymore. It reminds me of 5 year olds on the playground; someone does something wrong, call the teacher! Which is fine for children, but is that healthy behavior for adults? And as for those who demonstrate deviant sexual behavior, many are mentally ill, but when police are called, most will sit in jail instead of getting the treatment they really need. Please don't be so quick to judge, either yourself or others.

The Elder pulled down his pants halfway to his knees, grabbed his junk and flopped it around a few inches from this little girls face. Not only should I have called the police, I should have kicked the .......... My God, what if he did this or worse to someone else after he was sent home? Think about, this happened in the hallway of a chapel! God only knows what he may have done when there weren't people around. Over and over told at the MTC not to damage the reputation of the church. Believe me, I have had lots of time to think about this. Not only should I have called the cops, I should have called the BBC and all all the Canadian Television Stations and Newspapers.

And to think, even after I witnessed this, I went on to baptize more into TSCC. I keep hoping the people I did baptize know that I believe in Jesus Christ and I do NOT believe in Joseph Smith, etc. What a total torment TSCC has put me and millions in.

I completely agree that this was wrong, and that he absolutley should not have done this, and that most likely their is something wrong with him and he needs mental assistance, but I also feel that we as a society freak out way to much about nudity, now I fancy myself as some what of an artist, and I feel that the human form is the most beautiful thing in the world, male and female, I love classic art, and I think that kids should be exposed to classic art.

so having said that I don't think that a girl seeing a Ῥenis should be a life shattering event, and I don't think it would as long as you explain to her that some people have mental disorders, that it was wrong of him to do that, and that if anyone does this to her she should imediatly go to her parents and tell them what happend, that this person needs mental help to resolve what ever physcological conflicts he is having.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/22/2014 01:15PM by timtaylorl.

Remind me never to leave my children in your care.

Yeah no kidding!

wow, I thought you left mormonism because of the judgmental people, what in anything I said did I condone what he did, I simply said that I think it is important for kids to be shown good classicle art, which includes the nud e figure, I would have no problem with taking my kids to go see this http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_%28Michelangelo%29 and that seeing a %enis should not be an earth shattering event, I absolutly think that what happened was wrong and that it should not happen ever.

Why are you letting random people on the internet watch your children any way, what kind of parent are you?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/24/2014 02:41PM by timtaylorl.

I agree that nudity is not a big deal, depending on the circumstances.

A man waving his junk in the face of a little girl is NOT EVER OK. EVER.

This was not a situation to show the body is natural, beautiful or one of artistic expression. The act was meant to violate a girl's innocence.

I was raised in a healthy environment with open attitudes about sexuality and nudity. At 10 years old a man exposed himself to me in front of my school. It shocked me. I told my parents and I knew it was wrong.

They never caught the guy.

Did it ruin me or scar me for life? No. Did it change my outlook on the male anatomy? (Im surprised that the proper anatomical name is banned from saying on the board! lol) No.

Still makes it wrong.

RMM

I completly agree that it was wrong, I never said that it was not wrong, and that anything he did was OK, I don't condone his actions in any way whatsoever, and I absolutly do not think it is ever OK to pull your junk out in front of any kids and wave it around.
I stated that actions should have been taken, he obviously has something wrong with him that he would do that infront of a little girl, he needs help before it escalates to something further, if somebody did that infront of my little girl I would be Pissed, I would want to know who it was, they need help, and they need to not be around little kids any more.

Anyone have a story of an Elder waving his Junk in front of a divorced or lonely widow in the 50+ range? Maybe even a 60+ grandma who has been alone and needed a warm body.

Would this grandma call the police OR welcome the advance?

It wouldn't even be near a 6-monthly occurrence that the chance of this would happen for the old lady. Would she c'est la vie ?

Or the opposite sister missionary -- old guy....

It would be one incredible story.

What is wrong with you? Why would you assume an older woman would welcome perverted advances because you think those are the only advances she could get? Michelle Obama is 50 plus and she's gorgeous. A perverted 20-something waving his junk at her would not be the highlight of her day - believe me. Christie Brinkley is 60 plus and I'm pretty sure the same thing applies to her. But --- NEWS FLASH --- Even an old, ugly hag doesn't NEED some man to make her life wonderful and doesn't think having attention from a man is the end-all, be all of her life. Most of the single, older women I know fall into two categories - still attracting decent men or thanking God they no longer are saddled with a man. And they all seem perfectly happy with their decision.

I'm 57, though not "lonely".

But if a man of any age whipped out his equipment like that I be fairly shocked for sure.

I wouldn't feel victimized by it, but I'd worry that such a brash action might be due to a nervous breakdown or being off meds or something. I would certainly try to get him apprehended if I could before something worse happened.

Poor sick guy. And I hope the girl was too young or too confused to have that image burned into her memory.

Over a decade ago I was molested by my doctor. He was sneaky about it and I gave him the benefit of the doubt. A few years later, I realized I was taken advantage of big time!! I was just too nieve at the time. I should have reported it! It haunts me to this day that this could have really hurt someone else because of my failure to report. I hear what you've saying.

This conversation has got me thinking that I was not just molested but rather digitally raped during a vaginal exam. He touch an area he shouldn't have and asked me how it was when he was done. What a sicko! I almost feel guilty for blowing it off because I don't feel damaged by him, just guilty for not reporting and I guess some anger...mostly at myself for being bamboozled. I never told anyone.

Dont beat yourself up over it, it isnt your fault... being naive should not be an issue for you... if the same thing happened today , you would report it... dont beat yourself up over this!

You would still need evidence. He said she said kind of thing. The DR would have a negative in his record but who knows what would end up happening because you still have to back up your claims.

Most Drs have another person in the room all the time. You have to be careful though, because the nurse could be just as sick and back up the dr. Very very low chance but possible.

wow, thats a really piss poor attitude...I cant believe you just wrote that~

A little surprised at the commenters that think that calling the police would be overreacting..
This is a little girl. She could have been your daughter or sister or grandchild.
Would you want a mature male with thoughts and tendencies like that to be anywhere within ten miles of that child? Fuck no.
There is a reason we have police. They protect people who can't protect themselves. Like little girls confronted by older men. Like women who know that if they tell the person who has been fondling them to knock it off, they might get beat up or raped. Like waitresses getting felt up, and know they'll lose their job if they say anything. There's nothing wrong with calling the police or asking a trusted person for help.

I was not saying that any action should not have been taken, infact I was saying that action should have been taken, I take sexual harassment very seriously, and in no way was I condoning the behavior, he needs help (and locking people up in prison is not helping them), before it escelates to molestation.

Well, in a world where mental health care isn't a priority (sadly), locking him up is the next best thing. Because it teaches him that he can't get away with harassing little girls.
Yeah, proper mental health care would definitely help a lot of people, and prevent more crimes than people realize, but.. i don't think he needed help. I think he needed consequences. You start making moves on a little girl and get tossed in jail? Tough shit, buttercup.
Sorry tim, not aiming my intensity at you. just disgusted with this guy who thought he could (and did) get away with this.

After 25 years has passed it's a little late to ask "what to do"?

I wonder how many others he has exposed himself to over the years.

I'm sure no one in that ward that knew of it called the police
on him since it seems to be ingrained in the church that you
do not call the police on Mormon men and if you do, they cover
up for the perp.

Membership in the mormon church.... the gift that keeps on
giving.

behavior. We always had to respect authority. A SLC clothing store on Foothill Blvd in the 60's had a grey haired salesman in the men's dept who would feel boys up (me and another kid who told me the same thing) while being fitted for dress pants for tailoring. Nowhere near what others have gone through here. I knew it was creepy but afraid I would not be believed. He knew compliant, mormon teenagers would not say anything and he could always deny it. Business closed long ago.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 10/22/2014 07:21PM by mav.

Realisitically, and what im going to say will ruffle some feathers, but if no one else made a "big deal" about it, then she's probably perfectly and completely fine. No joke. (Keep in mind that I am only talking about "flashers" or creeps exposing their naked selves to children. Anything physical is COMPLETELY different.)

When I was growing up there was some man that one or two times walked up to the chain link fence at my elementary school and would "flash" the students, me included. How did our teachers react? With a short anatomy lesson regarding the differences between men and women and answered any innocent questions we had. What happened after that? Nothing. We were told to let the teachers know if we saw him again (he got away) since he obviously needed clothing, and to stay away since he was a stranger (stranger danger warnings). None of my friends or I were scarred. No traumatized youngesters (I know this because most of us kept in touch for a long long time)


Children look to adults at how to react during unfamiliar situations. Children don't "know" something is bad unless they are told it is or it feels wrong. Does this mean "flashing" is ok? No. But it doesn't have to be the most traumatizing thing in the world like an ACTUAL physical assault would be.

Also, remember that the acceptance of nudity varies among cultures and communities. Children at topsless or nude beaches are not rare in Europe. Nore would this be strange for children with parents that are more liberal with their clothing (common in the 60's/70's).

Like I said before, he waved his junk a few inches from the girls face in TSCC. He should have been prosecuted, and then deported.

There is some truth to what you are saying, Nevermomo.

However, this girl got a very blatant "private viewing" in a place that is supposed to be safe and even sacred.

How safe did she feel going to church after that incident?


And as for Elder Pervert, if he was willing to do THAT in a church of all places while he was a missionary - what did he do after he got home, and was no longer under control of the missionary program?



Still, I understand why CanadaRM did not report him to the authorities.

The mission president should have, IMHO.

The mission president was older, and more experienced with life. He should have reported the elder to local authorities. Instead, apparantly, he sent the boy home so he could do that to a little one in his home ward instead.

Wouldn't want to embarrass TSCC, now would we?

Were you trained in what to do if you saw a fellow missionary flash an innocent little girl, CanadaRM?


Chances are, the answer is NO.


We just did not address these issues 25 years ago, the way we do today. I would not have known what to do back then, if I had been in your place. I would have wanted to kick the guy in his junk, too, but when you are on a mission, you are kept under control just short of the level of control found in a maximum security prison.

You were told to trust church authorities, first and foremost, right? Trust church authorities even over civil authorities in most situations, right?

What can we expect, when we send 19 year old boys out into the world? Boys who, for the most part, lived sheltered lives before they got out in the mission field. Boys who were not taught what to do when a fellow missionary pulls his junk out and flops it in the face of a little girl.

I don't blame you, CanadaRM. I do wish you had called the police yourself (preferably AFTER kicking Elder Pervert in the parts he liked showing off so much), but I also understand the situation you were in.

I hope the elder got his act together after he got home, but most perverts don't. If he did not, I hope he landed in jail where he could be kept under control.

And I sure hope that today's missionaries are being taught the proper thing to do in situations similar to this one.

Middle 60's I was a missionary branch president and district leader in Sao Paulo. I received a new "companion" (I dislike this term) who refused to do any missionary work. He always had excuses. After two weeks with this individual, I reported to mission president that I would no longer try to work with weirdo. Then I was told that weirdo was an exhibitionist that had exposed his trouser worm on several occasions to various females.

Was weirdo ever arrested or sent home early? Nope. In fact he was re-assigned as assistant to mission president.

I've thought about writing my Mission President, wondering how he would respond.