Pretty sure I know the answers but the cult will try to make us think this subject is legit when it is not..

Tell me your stories or facts about why you think eternal marriage is bogus.

In the ritual I believe that the words "to become" define the improbability of the "eternal"

Gawd, I hope so.

I believe that agency is eternal. Given there is an afterlife, what is to stop us us keeping company with whomever we choose?

Now, the Church will reply that our faithfulness and covenant-keeping determines what sort of body we will have in the next life, and that anything less than a celestial body will be incapable of reproduction. Thus we won't be able to be gods, since gods populate their worlds with their spiritual offspring.

OK, but what kind of god would decide that covenant-keeping (read:beaurocratic red tape) is the most important indication of goodness? That if you are everything loving, kind, truthful, etc. to your fellow man, that it just doesn't make the cut unless you pay tithing to and claim undying devotion to one particular organization and its one narrow approach to god? I cannot believe god (if there is a god) is that narrow, and that petty. If he is, I would certainly not worship him, as he would not be worthy of worship.

To sum up: I believe the the eternality of any relationship depends on the relationship itself, not homage to any organization or even to any supreme being.

cwm31s Wrote:
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>
> Tell me your stories or facts

fact: nobody knows what happens after we die

As far as the bible is concerned, there is no marriage in Heaven and there is no need for sealings in order to see loved ones again in Heaven. As far as I know, Mormons are the only ones that believe god is up there boinking his broodmares, making little souls for all eternity. It's my opinion that LD$ perpetuates this fear of separation and need for temple ritual in order to keep tithing dollars at a maximum. A woman can't get in without a sealing to a priesthood male. Without this belief, how many would bother with tithing or the temple?

Whatever there is after death (if anything) has nothing to do with The LDS cult leaders. That's the only fact I know.

LDS founder cult leaders like Brigham Young have called marriage as we have it today in the developed western world(monogamous) as evil.


“... THE ONE-WIFE SYSTEM NOT ONLY DEGENERATES THE HUMAN FAMILY, BOTH PHYSICALLY AND INTELLECTUALLY, but it is entirely incompatible with philosophical notions of immortality; IT IS A LURE TO TEMPTATION, AND HAS ALWAYS PROVED A CURSE TO A PEOPLE.” (Brigham Young; Millennial Star, Vol. 15, page. 227)


“This law of MONOGAMY, or the MONOGAMIC SYSTEM, laid the foundation for prostitution and the evils and diseases of the most revolting nature and character under which modern Christendom groans,...” (Apostle Orson Pratt; Journal of Discourses, Vol. 13, page 195.)


“The ONLY MEN WHO BECOME GODS, even the Sons of God, are those WHO ENTER INTO POLYGAMY.” (Brigham Young; Journal of Discourses, Vol. 11, page 269.)


“…. if a man has no divine right to marry two wives or more in this world, THE MARRIAGE FOR ETERNITY IS NOT TRUE, and your FAITH IS ALL VAIN, and all the sealing ordinances and powers, pertaining to marriages for eternity ARE VAIN, WORTHLESS, GOOD FOR NOTHING; for as sure as one is true the other also must be true. Amen.” (Orson Pratt; Journal of Discourses, Vol. 21, page 296.)


Todays LDS cult leaders do not have any credibility in defining marriage and defining what happens after death as far as marriage is concerned.

the word "Love" is not even uttered in the temple during marriage right? So are you married eternally to the church in heaven or each other???.....obviously "the church". It is that way even here on earth for Mormons. SAD.

The lack of "love" in the temple ceremony is telling. Thankfully, my DW and I were married in a ceremony in which "love" was part of the package.

Yes. Anything that comes out of religion is bogus.

There is no evidence that anything is eternal.

If there were, there is no reason to think marriage wouldn't last eternally if a soul could.

Virtually all Christians believe that they will be with their loved ones in the afterlife. They don't believe that you need some sort of special marriage ceremony in order to be with your husband or wife.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/19/2014 01:15PM by summer.

Yes, the Mormons' claim on "eternal marriage" as being exclusive only to temple-Married Mormons is not only bogus--it is blasphemy against God.

Mormons have no authority with God, whatsoever. Mormons don't respect the Atonement of Christ. Mormons don't preach or practice unconditional love.

People can believe whatever they want to believe about their afterlife--and no money is required.

My daughter was married in the temple, and she cried after it was over. She said, "It wasn't at all what I expected it to be. We never said we loved or cherished each other. It was so--institutional--like, 'next, please."

Eternal anything is bogus....everything has a beginning and an end....I have no expectation of an afterlife so I'll try and make my life meaningful while I'm here.

Ron Burr



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/19/2014 01:20PM by Lethbridge Reprobate.

To me this is why people react so strongly when I admit my atheism. It's like I'm killing them and their loved ones. I could be wrong, but I think dead means dead. I find it comforting. Many do not.

I am one who does not. While I don't believe in an afterlife, and I do believe once we die that's probably it...I hate it. It's a terrifying thought to me.

Oddly my religious husband, who wants to go to church (any church except TSCC...thank goodness I was able to show him the light there) thinks I'm being absurd. He's like, if you die and you're just dead, so what?

Tell me why you feel comfort in this? I'm genuinely curious, because I don't want to not exist.

It probably has something to do with my not-very-healthy approach to life in general. My super-duper TBM dad was emotionally abusive to my mom and physically and emotionally abusive to my older siblings. He was emotionally abusive to me. Some spanking, but nothing like what the older kids got. Sob story--whatever. No doubt all that stress damaged my coping mechanisms. I figure my poor mom was swimming in stress hormones and I was marinating in them from conception. I've done fair--certainly better out of that awful church and certainly better on medication.

Mormon eternity with it's mean old judgmental God and eternal progression i.e. keep on struggling forever, was my perfect hell. My dad would constantly say, "Be ye therefore perfect..." Ug. Perfection. That sounds boring as hell. I just can't imagine any existence that wouldn't get crazy boring after a few thousand years. Harps and wings? No thanks. My own planet? Inflict this on other creatures? No way. Perfection? What the hell is that? Struggle/progression? Forever? Exhausting. Be done. Ahhhhhh. Sounds good.

I married in the Temple and have had nothing but regrets throughout my life.

All of my family were LDS. But not one of them went with me to my wedding. My father was a really disgusting example of someone who should never have been a father and back in those days, if he didn't go, my mother didn't go. No one from my husband's family was a member so we basically got married without family except for one cousin who managed to make it for the actual wedding but couldn't go through the horrific right of passage called the endowment. This happened back in the 60's and if I could have, I would have walked out of the whole affair. I didn't have the courage at the time and just did what I was told, enjoyed nothing, and walked out at the end feeling like I had been run over by a truck.

What a way to start a marriage. Believe it or not, I stayed married for over 40 years. I finally got the courage to leave the church and the marriage but certain church and family members have dumped on me ever since. I still have no regrets for leaving something that I never, ever felt good about.

It's bogus because Mormons think it's their unique selling point and they have cornered the market due to their unique magical priesthood powers. In reality, most people who believe in an afterlife believe they will be with their loved ones. Just like that, no rubber Mormon priesthood stamp required.

From omreven..

"It's my opinion that LD$ perpetuates this fear of separation and need for temple ritual in order to keep tithing dollars at a maximum.

This is the sole reason for the "eternal marriage" doctrine.

Temple interview: Bishop I'm having trouble with JS and the BOM. There are just questions and doubts. O' read the BOM, pray and fast. Here read this talk by one of our leaders and lets talk with the SP. Are you a full tithe payer? yes, yes I am. Well keep praying and reading a the BOM. Here is your recommend.

Bishop I sooo believe in JS, the church and that TM is the leader and a profit of God. I so love this church and my calling. I live my life by it's direction and am a faithful and joyful member. Very good, that is just wonderful. Are you a full tithe payer? Well, no. I pay what I can. Things have been tough but I love the church so much. Well that's all fine and good but you will need to catch up tithing before I can issue a recommend.

Next!!

It's all about the money and nothing else.

Temple in Old Testament or in the New Testament (see Book of Hebrews chapter 8 - 9) did not have marriage ceremonies

Note: Egyptian Pharaoh's became gods ... hmmmm.


How could we have been so foolish to believe it?

The Mormon concept of happiness only through blind devotion and financial slavery is thankfully, not the way to true happiness. That requires loving unconditionally and the giving of ones self to others without regards to perceived reward just because it's the right thing to do and it feels wonderful.

Ron Burr

Lethbridge Reprobate Wrote:
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> The Mormon concept of happiness only through blind
> devotion and financial slavery is thankfully, not
> the way to true happiness. That requires loving
> unconditionally and the giving of ones self to
> others without regards to perceived reward just
> because it's the right thing to do and it feels
> wonderful.
>
> Ron Burr




loved it

well said!

Look. This is all about making up something that will make you feel better and pay for now.

No one likes the idea of being mortal. No one likes to think of having time cut short with loved ones.

Religion designs a culture and an afterlife so people think they get to live forever, favored by a loving god, with their pals.

Yes, it is bogus. However it comforts a lot of people.

As there's no evidence of any kind of any "afterlife," of course it's "bogus."

Not to mention that living "eternally" isn't even possible. See, living in any way requires energy. Living eternally, for even one being, would require infinite energy. There *isn't* infinite energy. End of story.

or, there IS infinite energy, and the story goes on...

hello Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> or, there IS infinite energy, and the story goes
> on...

The energy in the universe is finite. Speculation won't change that fact.
You can speculate about "other universes," but that's also speculation without any supporting evidence.

I'll happily accept "infinite energy" when there's evidence to back the idea up. Until then, there's no reason to. :)

ificouldhietokolob Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> hello Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > or, there IS infinite energy, and the story
> goes
> > on...
>
> I'll happily accept "infinite energy" when there's
> evidence to back the idea up. Until then, there's
> no reason to. :)

I don't think mankind understands universal energy at this stage of evolution. And while you may not have a reason to accept this, I may have a reason, altho the universe cares not for you reasons or mine.

But come on....I have this speschul feeling in my bosom that eternity and eternal marriage do exist. It is so strong and feels so sure and right.

I do not need evidence. I do not need facts. Some of you are just nay-sayers, and party poopers and we will just see who goes on living because they are good and righteous and....

who does not!

I say this in the name of my church. Amen.

Forever is a long time. I hope there is more than what is on this planet even if I knew everything there is to know here. I had a dream one time I died and everything that was my life here was viewed from the perspective of being a little blip in a vast sea of other little blips of previous lives.

I kind of view existence that way. Here on terra firma and in the physical it's important at the moment because you are here and living it. In the next life in another dimension it might just be a blip in a bigger existence.

My advice is to live in the now and make the most of it because it's where you are now.

These are my thoughts about it. It was a real struggle to get through the death of the idea for me.

Gentle Hope

I look at you sitting across the room
And I cannot believe that I was so fortunate
To have someone like you who would
Be in love with me.

I wonder at the uniqueness our love holds
And I worry that someday,
You or I will be gone and the other will
Gasp at the pain and groan at the loneliness.

I am sure I will cry at various moments,
That will often be unpredictable in their appearance.
When I am reminded of your being lost to me,
Never to warm my bed again.

Those that say they know that there is a forever
Do so with great hope.
For me knowing is not so easy and pondering
Brings very little comfort.

As long as humanity's been able to love
We’ve spoken of it in stories 'round hearths
And whispered while entwined in our dreams,
We hope against the truth that we witness in life.

How could one look at their beloved
And not hope for eternity?
Why wouldn’t lovers long to have
Their joys unending?

Who wouldn’t want to recall
Life’s tender treasures enjoyed together,
The pleasant walks spent talking and laughing,
To forgive a trespass and not hold a grudge?

The truth alone can make life too difficult.
It would become impossible to get up and go on
Without a sense of hope because we know,
Life always ends badly…

Life’s truths are too harsh.
And its end is too certain.
Truth must be taken in small portions
Or it will break your heart.

Not knowing for certain is a safe place to be.
It is a place for hope to spring up and to grow.
For love is a truth that is as real as a rock,
Feelings trump reason more often than not.

I’d rather have truth in manageable portions
I need the comfort that hope can bring.
I need to be with the people I love this is what
Brings real comfort and allows me to go on.

So, I live each day with all that I’ve got.
As I grow older I know that “for better or worse”
Is no longer an ephemeral promise given by eager lovers,
It now becomes a Sacrament to worship at your sick bed.

I’ll not give away today following promises of tomorrow,
I want to be present and partake of your sorrow.
We can let our hope for forever rob us of today
While those we’ve promised are lost along the way.

Hope is a cruel instrument when it’s wielded by men,
We give away so much for the promise of tomorrow.
If forever is there at the end of our lives,
Our love will be there too and that hope will be fulfilled.

If our souls and love are eternal,
Then how could you believe a capricious God
Would be worthy of worship if He denies
His own children the opportunity to experience love?

ANYTHING with the word "eternal" is bogus.

This doctrine contradicts the bible. Matthew 22:30 Jesus says:
King James Bible
For in the resurrection they neither marry, nor are given in marriage, but are as the angels of God in heaven.

"Families forever" is bogus. What is a family? Who defines a family? Does a family formalize with magical sealing rituals done in the temple?

Now lets contemplate a little, just some food for thought. The modern genetic research has revealed that every living human carries the genes of two individuals from the past, these are generally referred as mitochondrial-Eve (M-Eve) and mitochondrial-Adam (M-Adam). Now the researchers have also determined that the M-Eve lived around 200000 years ago while M-Adam lived around 150000 years ago. This fact that we all carry genes from these two people makes all humans relatives with each other. So where should one draw the line of family? How many generations separates has to be counted to severe the bloodline and a person should not be considered to be part of the family anymore?

Or then how about another philosophical contemplation? If married couple gets their children sealed to them and then little time passes on again and those children do the same for their children and so on.. Who's going to live in the CK with whom? While the first parents are governing their creations in order to create more LDS gods out of their celestial offspring will their earthly children live with them or will the children be governing their own creations too? Or will there be celestial copies of the earthly children living with their earthly parents while the exalted beings are governing their own creations?

Nope, the whole idea of eternal families just falls completely part if you give it a few minutes to think it through... and in the end the idea itself is also rather appalling.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GzfCtGFgRSk

One thing that dawned on me while working on my genealogy is that when you go back far enough in a family tree, the concept of family gets increasingly hard to maintain. Seven generations back, twelve generations back -- they were very different people with very different goals in life. There is a certain level of pride for what they accomplished, sure, but if we sat down and talked face-to-face, would we really have all that much in common? Would they have the remotest understanding of what it is like to live in the early 21st century? Sometimes I think that the concept of family is a shifting framework. I can relate to my great grandparents, but increasingly less so the further back I travel.

Answering a question with a question...

Why is it necessary for TSCC to keep records of all their member family, sealing, etc... ? Is their god that feeble and forgetful? And won't all these earthly based records just be lost in the end anyway?

And there is the answer. Totally bogus.