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Posted by: Mr. Buddy ( )
Date: October 10, 2014 02:20PM

I'm just starting to have my eyes opened. Long time tbm, grew up in Davis County, UT, mission, etc, etc but have been slowly transitioning out of Mormonism. All my life I never strayed far from correlated church books/history. Then I read Rough Stone Rolling and had my eyes opened a bit more. Now I'm reading No Man Knows My History.

I have a long list of Joseph Smith related books that I want to read. But the more true church history I read the more I want to know about all the crazy things Brigham Young did.

Any suggestions for good books on the true Brigham Young?

Thanks

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Posted by: Facsimile 3 ( )
Date: October 10, 2014 04:04PM

Congratulations and good question. I would also be interested in a comprehensive book on BY. I did get a sample by reading Wild Bill Hickman's book at http://www.utlm.org/onlinebooks/brighamsdestroyingangel_contents.htm. He was an interesting character, to say the least.


http://signaturebooks.com/2010/02/wild-bill-hickman-and-the-mormon-frontier/

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Posted by: me ( )
Date: October 10, 2014 04:08PM


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Posted by: Facsimile 3 ( )
Date: October 10, 2014 04:40PM

Thanks for the tip...I have added it to my Amazon wish list.

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Posted by: Phazer ( )
Date: October 10, 2014 08:56PM

There is also a podcast that covers this book on mormonstories. John Dehlin's blog site.

Search:
377-378: Brigham Young: Pioneer Prophet with John G. Turner


So of the comments on the blog page are kind of funny. There are still Joseph Smith polygamy deniers. Silly folks.


A few others:
Blood of the Prophets: Brigham Young and the Massacre at Mountain Meadows
http://www.amazon.com/Blood-Prophets-Brigham-Massacre-Mountain/dp/0806136391/ref=la_B001JSBNHG_1_2?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1412987591&sr=1-2

The Mormon Rebellion: America's First Civil War, 1857-1858
http://www.amazon.com/Mormon-Rebellion-Americas-First-1857-1858/dp/0806143150/ref=la_B001JSBNHG_1_5?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1412987736&sr=1-5


Brigham Young: American Moses a reprint of the 1986 book same title. Possible Puff Piece though because Leonard had worked for the BYU History dept.
http://www.amazon.com/Brigham-Young-American-Leonard-Arrington/dp/0345803213/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1412988063&sr=8-2&keywords=Brigham+Young%3A+American+Moses

Brigham Young: The New York Years (Charles Redd Monographs in Western History
http://www.amazon.com/Brigham-Young-Charles-Monographs-Western/dp/0941214079/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1412988698&sr=1-1&keywords=9780941214070

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Posted by: Phazer ( )
Date: October 10, 2014 09:10PM

In regards to Brigham Young: Pioneer Prophet

One commenter on amazon mentioned a rebuttal ton one of the reviews:
http://www.amazon.com/review/R4SWFLMBKUY1O/ref=cm_cd_pg_next?ie=UTF8&asin=0674049675&cdForum=Fx3CNM2GTNGHCAP&cdPage=2&cdThread=Tx2WAQADDWHZGI6&store=books#wasThisHelpful


....I want to comment on one that is not - the reliability of Bill Hickman's testimony. In this regard, I think this article about Hickman murdering Jesse Hartley is illuminating. http://user.xmission.com/~research/mormonpdf/storm.pdf

Footnote 31 states the following regarding the reliability of Hickman's testimony:

"In 1979 Leonard J. Arrington and Hope A. Hilton wrote a paper, "William A. ('Bill') Hickman: Setting the Record Straight." "The published draft of Brigham's Destroying Angel was not written by Hickman," they claimed. "The style is different, and the editorializing and sensationalizing are alien to Bill's spirit." They claimed "the editorializing, the facile attempts to connect Brigham Young with nefarious doings, are part of the editing by John Beadle." See Task Paper No. 28, LDS Archives, i-ii. Hilton changed her view in the preface to her biography of her greatgrandfather: "I do not question whether Hickman actually wrote Brigham's Destroying Angel. It is too accurate in its details to have been written by anyone else." She acknowledged that the "avowedly anti-Mormon editor, J. H. Beadle," wrote the preface, the first chapter, and "the bitter diatribe against Young and the Mormons on pages 137-39 [all bylined "By the editor"], probably the first paragraph on page 192, and several other brief inserts, sometimes adding only a single word. Except for these additions, Hickman's mind and hand are the book's undisputed source. Beadle did not have access to Brigham Young's daily office journal or to other sources available today which confirm many of the book's first-hand statements." See Hilton, "Wild Bill" Hickman, x-xi."

The veracity of Hickman's testimony is further confirmed by Robert Baskin, a contemporary of Hickman, who interrogated him repeatedly and describes his experience here. http://books.google.com/books?id=UjEuAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA36&lpg=PA36&dq=robert+baskin+bill+hickman&source=bl&ots=Uq8QG2U79V&sig=m6IsubeIWE9TbbGIlQ4XFMp-2nk&hl=en&sa=X&ei=Oz-hUNyWIOWeywH37YD4AQ&ved=0CFIQ6AEwBQ#v=onepage&q&f=false

Contrary to the author of the review, Hickman's testimony has not been discredited. It has been confirmed.

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Posted by: Shummy ( )
Date: October 10, 2014 04:35PM

The Tanners have put a lot of BY's most egregious stuff in 'Mormonism: Shadow or Reality?'

All based on verifiable lds sources, either the Journal of Discourses and then stuff they grabbed off microfilm before the Crutch kicked them out of their archives.

Ya gotta pity the church's editors who had to clean up Briggy's foul mouth.

"shitass" was one of his favorite pulpit pounding epithets, as I recall.

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Posted by: danboyle ( )
Date: October 10, 2014 04:52PM

Wife Number 19, by Ann Eliza Young...one of the best I have read that show Brigham Young for what he was.

Only 99 cents from Amazon for your kindle.

I cannot recommend this book highly enough, it is really interesting. Even if her autobiography is 90% made up, the remaining 10% is devastating to Brigham and his tyranny.

I think she tells the story straight, but it is her telling her own story, so there has got to be some minor errors...but wow, what a crook Brigham was.

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Posted by: blindednomore ( )
Date: October 10, 2014 07:12PM

+100 I loved this book. What do you mean by her autobiography being made up? Is this not a legitimate book??

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Posted by: Book of Mordor ( )
Date: October 10, 2014 08:51PM

It's a legitimate book. I wouldn't say that it's "made up." It's not entirely free of inconsistencies and embellishments, however. She wasn't a professional historian.

TBMs insist that the book is worthless, though. Hugh Nibley did a hack job on her years ago, so in their eyes she has been safely discredited.

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Posted by: Phazer ( )
Date: October 10, 2014 08:20PM


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Posted by: Mr. Buddy ( )
Date: October 10, 2014 07:43PM

Thanks for the suggestions everyone!

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Posted by: quinlansolo ( )
Date: October 10, 2014 08:25PM

#1-Nightfall at Nauvoo by Samuel Taylor
#2-No Man knows my History by Fawn brodie
Honorable Mention "The Blood of Prophets" Will Bagley

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Posted by: Villager ( )
Date: October 10, 2014 08:32PM

Forgotten Kingdom by David Bigler
USU Press

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Posted by: dagny ( )
Date: October 10, 2014 08:44PM

Check out some of the scary stuff he taught. Many of his sermons are in the Journal of Discourses.

It is online, all 23(?) volumes of it. http://journalofdiscourses.com

You can open up practically anywhere and get a chuckle. The guy was a self righteous know it all. I happened to open Volume 7, discourse 1 just now, completely randomly. In this talk, BY describes cluing in a Baptist.

Below is a short tidbit from the same talk about him breaking up with his personal play pal, the Devil. You ought to see what he had to say about women. The guy was a real piece of work.



"I remember that when I made a profession of religion, after being called an infidel by the Christians, I often used to get a little puzzled. The Evil One would whisper to me that I had done this, that, or some other thing wrong, and inquire whether that looked like a Christian act, and remark, "You have missed it; you have not done right, and you know it; you did not do as well in such a thing as you might; and are you not ashamed of yourself in saying that you are a Christian? You profess the religion of Jesus Christ, and now manifest such weakness!" Said I, "Mr. Devil, it is none of your business. You may go behind, or before, or in any other direction; but you and I have dissolved partnership; and what I do, I am accountable for to a more glorious Being than you are. So long as we were in partnership, I had to give an account of my doings to you; but now it is not for you to fret yourself about my doings, for you have no interest whatever in the matter." And thus I have acted with him from that time until now."

There's nothing like the JoD to see what BY was really like.

I can't tell you how embarrassing it is to have this goof ball's name on my diploma.

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Posted by: lr2014 ( )
Date: October 10, 2014 09:26PM

I was also surprised when I read Todd Compton's book that BY ordained his 11 year old son John Willard Young an apostle in 1855.

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Posted by: Phazer ( )
Date: October 20, 2014 03:07PM

I also found the ordination of John Willard at 11 years old disturbing. He didn't take an active role in the priesthood body until a decade later. Young was trying to get his legacy to still have some form of control/power after BY was long gone. The atempt failed.

More details:

"Young also cultivated as leaders his three sons by Mary Ann Angell: Joseph Angell, Brigham Jr. (“ Briggy”), and John Willard. It was clear as early as 1855 that Young was thinking about their future place in the church hierarchy. That year, he ordained to the apostleship eleven-year-old John Willard, the first son born to Young after his endowments and sealing to Mary Ann. John Willard did not assume any active role as an apostle until the following decade; for the time being, his ordination remained unknown to nearly all church members."

"In 1864, Young privately ordained his two oldest sons— Joseph and Briggy—as apostles and then “set apart” his three apostolic sons as “assistant counselors ” within the church’s First Presidency, privately bestowing high ecclesiastical authority on them. Despite their ordinations, none of Young’s sons had received a place within the Quorum of the Twelve until Brigham Jr. filled an opening in 1868. It remained unclear to many church members whether seniority among the apostles rested upon ordination as an apostle, ordination into the Quorum of the Twelve, or uninterrupted service within that quorum. In any event, Young’s private ordinations of his sons— especially John Willard—seemed designed to make it likely that at least one of them would one day hold his father’s office." 25

"Of course, Young’s sons had to choose whether to embrace their given roles. By his own account, Brigham Jr. was “wild” as a young man. Despite later stories about the church president interrupting his children’s youthful courtships, Young was not a parental killjoy. “I would rather,” Young stated, “my children would spend their early life sliding down Hill, skating, riding Horses, & not go to school one day.” His own childhood had been devoid of both recreation and schooling. While he wanted his children to obtain both, he valued the former— along with practical experience— more highly. Young did not overly worry when his children engaged in adolescent antics and youthful frivolities, as Briggy had done. By his mid-twenties, Briggy had decided to walk more closely in his father’s path, and by the late 1860s all three elder sons became key business associates of their father."

"In 1873, Young formalized the inner circle of advisers he had come to trust. At the church’s semiannual conference in April, John W. and Brigham Jr. were publicly sustained as “assistant counselors” to their father, along with Lorenzo Snow, Albert Carrington, and George Q. Cannon." 26

In 1874 and 1875, Young was staggered by the deaths of several beloved family members and close advisers.
....Young received the news that his eldest son Joseph Angell had died unexpectedly of “congestive chills.” Unlike brothers Brigham Jr. and John Willard, Joseph Angell had not become a member of the Quorum of the Twelve or the First Presidency. It is possible that Joseph’s role in the railroad schemes that had produced so much financial distress caused his father to lose some confidence in him.

In 1875, Joseph’s wife Clara Stenhouse wrote her father-in-law that Joseph had recently dedicated himself to serving the church in Sevier County “as his only redemption from past follies.” Clara added that Joseph’s efforts were straining his health but that her husband desperately wanted his father’s “approbation.” When Brigham tasked him with overseeing the construction of a planned temple in Manti, Joseph felt the satisfaction of receiving his father’s approval . His sudden death cut short those efforts. 27

Young rarely showed outward grief and discouraged public displays of mourning. He had kept his tears to himself after Joseph Smith’s death, and he did not participate in deathbed vigils for his first wife Miriam or his father. When his daughter Mary Eliza Croxall (by Clarissa Ross) died in 1871 , a “shocked” and sickened Young cancelled all business and simply remained inside for a day. As the summer of 1875 drew to a close, though, Young’s emotions were unusually ragged. One month after Joseph Angell’s death, George A. Smith died. For four decades , Smith and Young had been at the center of the church’s history: the 1834 Zion’s Camp march, the 1840– 1841 mission to England, the tumultuous events of Nauvoo, and the exodus. At his friend’s funeral, Young uncharacteristically wept. 28

The Salt Lake Tribune mercilessly lampooned Young’s two remaining eldest sons, Brigham Jr. and John Willard, as unworthy beneficiaries of nepotism. Mocking him as “porcine Prince Briggy” or simply the “Fat Boy,” the Tribune reported with glee on Briggy’s girth and purported violations of the Word of Wisdom, namely an apparent fondness for Havana cigars. 29

Brigham Jr. remained a steadfastly obedient son and frequently traveled with his father, but the more magnetic and eloquent John Willard (“ Apostate Johnny,” per the Tribune) 30 preferred to operate at a distance from Utah and his father. Dapper and mustached, alternately prosperous and penniless, he frustrated his creditors and distressed his father. John Willard’s letters are filled with vows to return to Utah after settling his affairs, but the tug of business always pulled him east again. On more than one occasion, Young paid John Willard’s debts to induce him to actively assume ecclesiastical leadership and remain in Zion. “I want you here,” Young concluded a December 1875 letter to John Willard. Pleading with his son to come home from New York City, Young added a handwritten postscript: “O Jonna I pr[ a] y for you and yours continuly. If you nue [knew] how I want to see you, you would come. my dear Jonna, I due hope you will see as we see thing[ s]. I send your dear Br Brigham & Br [William] Stanes to prevale on you to come home and stay with us. m[ a] y god Bles my d[ e] ar Boy.” When John Willard returned in February, Brigham Jr. wrote in his diary that “Father & Mother welcomed their son for whom they had longed especially since the death of Jos. A.” 31

Given former assumptions about Joseph Smith’s children, Young’s earlier creation of familial tribes , and themes of kingship and priesthood royalty within Mormon theology, it was widely assumed that Young wanted either John Willard or Brigham Jr. to succeed him. Further stoking such speculation was Young’s choice of John Willard to replace George A. Smith as his First Counselor. With Brigham Jr. assisting, Young privately ordained John Willard to that position in March 1876, a decision affirmed at the church’s October conference. Many years later, the apostle Joseph F. Smith told Charles Nibley that he had suggested Brigham Jr. as a wiser choice. Smith’s bold statement prompted a predictably sharp response from Young: “I have got Brigham and I have got you and I want John W.” Perhaps sensing others might share Joseph F. Smith’s objection, on the day after the announcement of John Willard’s elevation Young preached a sermon on Jacob receiving his father’s blessing instead of his older brother Esau.

As was nearly always the case, Young got his way. John Willard seems to have expected to be his father’s successor, but he did not have the respect of other church leaders. Perhaps with that in mind, while he clearly hoped that one of them would eventually lead the church,Young did not try to engineer the immediate succession of either son.32


Sources:=============================================
25 . Todd Compton, “John Willard Young, Brigham Young, and the Development of Presidential Succession in the LDS Church,” Dialogue 35 (Winter 2002): 111– 134.

26 . “would rather” in WWJ, 1 Jan. 1861, 5: 536. On Brigham Young Jr., see Davis Bitton, The Ritualization of Mormon History and other Essays (Urbana: University of Illinois Press, 1994), ch. 7.

29 . SLT, 3 Jan. 1877 and 13 Jan. 1878.

30 . SLT, 23 Sept. 1877.

32 . Brigham Young Jr. Journal, 14 March 1876, Box 2, Folder 7; Nibley, Reminiscences of Charles W. Nibley, 1849– 1931, privately published in 1934, copy at CHL; WWJ, 8 Oct. 1876, 7: 286.


Turner, John G. (2012-09-25). Brigham Young: Pioneer Prophet (pp. 382-383). Harvard University Press. Page 382 - 385

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Posted by: fluhist ( )
Date: October 11, 2014 03:07AM

You and I are following the same reading project Mr Buddy. I have just finished "NO man knows my history" and have read 'Rough Stone roling". I was struck at times by the same evidence being used to argue for/against JS being a prophet. I, for one, am glad I didn't ever have to untangle the confusing amount of condtradictory souces about JS.

I have also read Wife Number 19, and was frankly horrified and VERY distressed. It all rings SO true and yet it is absolutely AWFUL!! I recommend that to you. It is available for download on Gerald and Sandra Tanner's site.

I am glad for the many suggestions others have put here and will be following through. Because I live in Australia so many of the books are simply not available here, so to have access to them via the internet is amazing. I have ordered some and others I have been able to download. I have been out of the church for over 20 years, but to be able to read all of this stuff is VERY enlightening. I appreciate being able to have access to it.

Good luck with your reading mate!

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Posted by: fluhist ( )
Date: October 11, 2014 04:02AM

Hi again, sorry to take up more space, but I wanted to let you know that I read and enjoyed "Mormon Enigma- Emma Hale Smith" too. It is the 'other' side of the JS story and has its own surprising parts. I have also read a couple of Micheal Quinn's books, I can't remember their titles, I have returned them to the friend who I borrowed them from. They were good, I felt he tried very hard to be balanced, but at times I felt he was a bit 'soft' on tscc, but in other places he made up for it. In all both were VERY good reads. They of course are not about BY but I thought you might be interested.

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