Is the Relief Society really the "oldest and largest women's organization in the world" as they keep bragging it is. And if it is, why is that significant?

They are so proud of their feminism, but the old men can't let the women run their own organization.

The men presided at the women's meeting, which did not count as a session of conference, but how many women presided at the men's meeting, which was?

Some of the oldest and largest women I know are in it.

I thought it was funny. And I am getting oh, so tired of people slapping down others because something in some part of what they said may just not sit well with some demographic. Political correctness is the modern day witch hunt and it works like this: If you hurt my feelings or you may have hurt someone else's feelings you are not sensitive enough and should be reprimanded. (In some cases, fired.) It makes people afraid to speak freely and cracking jokes can be almost dangerous. If I had a bumper sticker on my car it would say Stop Being Offended.

+1,000,000

+ 1,000,000,000

a nonny mouse Wrote:
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> n/t


Bothered much by circe flies, are you?

Sounds more honest than hateful to me.

Why do hate the truth?

I think it was more just playing off the words in the OP's subject line rather than actually being anti women. I thought it was funny.

I chuckled.

Relief Society is nothing more than an older mean girls club. It just encourages competition, judgement and stress. I know of very few mormon women who are genuinely happy.

The word "harridan" exists for a reason.

Groucho Marx would be proud! :-)

I think some nuns' orders, such as Carmelite, can trace their beginnings back to Medieval times.

Briggy

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poor_Clares

St. Francis of Assisi and his friend, Ste. Clare, founded the Poor Clares in 1212, which was recognized by Pope Innocent IV in 1253.

That's about 600 years before the RS was established, and this is not even the oldest religious order in the world.

Can it really be considered a true women's organization when it was founded and run by men, who create the curriculum, issue the handbooks, control the purse strings and have the final say on ALL matters in the organization?

I'm sure the Taliban can create a "women's organization" too.

I know, it's so laughable. How many thousands (probably millions) of women don't even know they're counted as members of the larrrrrrrgest women's organization in the world (as Wrinkley Hinckley) used to love to boast? Any female on the church records older than 18 is counted. The organization is organized by men, presided over by men, and men decide who the women "leaders" will be. Men control the budget, tell them what they can and can't spend money on and dictate what they must teach.

Yeah. Tell us more about this wonderful "women's organization."

But you might remember when it WAS a woman's organization, pre-correlation. Women formally joined a formal organization, paid dues, and ran stuff. They had their own magazine and fund raisers. One day, The Brethren suddenly thought, "Whoa!" Their egos threatened, they took all that away.

It was not founded by men and it is not run by men

They don't have control of their own budget. Sorry, but in my eyes, Relief Society does not qualify as a "women's organization." It is better described as an auxiliary of a men's club.

lol..yeah it is. Created by Joe Smith - a MAN. Since the beginning RS leadership are called and "set apart" by the 1st presidency, who are MEN In stakes and wards, the RS presidents are called and vetted by MEN.

Keep drinking the fruit punch.

Yep...and the first president, Emma, used the RS as a forum to speak out against Joe's polygamy. What did the real leader of this "women's organization" do after that? He shut it down. There was no "women's organization" in TSCC for the next 20+ years.

Yup go Emma good for her!

The very first meeting of the RS was presided over by men. But then Emma was voted in unanimously (Surprise!) as the President. But men were usually present and would be telling them how to run things.

The meetings didn't sound very nice at times. You could be outed right in the meeting and be a topic of discussion and investigation.

For example, in one meeting, I believe a young woman named Clarissa Marvel must have been accused of saying something objectionable of Joseph Smith or Emma.

"Prest. E[mma] Smith rose & said she would like to hear from those appointed to enquire into the case of Clarissa M[arvel]
Mrs. [Diantha] Billings said— we visited her, questioned her closely— she appear’d like an innocent girl—
Mrs Markam [Hannah Markham] corroborated the statement of Mrs. Billings.

Prest. E. S.said, We are call’d upon to find the origin of the report— Mrs. Billings refer’d to Mrs. Winchester, with whom C. M. had resided— Mrs. W. Had heard C. M. speak of Prest. J. Smith & family in the most respectful manner.

Councillor [Sarah] Cleveland propos’d that the rumor be trac’d out— and the innocent clear’d—
Mrs. Gribble said Laura Jones & Hannah Burgess have reported against C. M.
Councillor [Elizabeth Ann ] Whitney motion’d that 2 persons be appointed to see L. Jones & H. B. carried unanly.
Councillor C. motioned that Mrs. Allred and Mrs. [Elizabeth Davis] Durfee be appointed to see them and cite them to appear at the next meeting.
Mrs. Durfee objected.
Prest. E. S.said we were going to learn new things — our way was straight— said we wanted none in this society but those who could and would walk straight and were determined to do good and not evil— said that Mrs. Durfee must serve unless she could provide [p. 23] a better person to officiate in her stead.

They really are quite interesting reading.
http://www.josephsmithpapers.org/paper-summary/nauvoo-relief-society-minute-book/113#full-transcript

Come on people they say it's a big organization. I'm sure RS is larger than any order of nuns. The real comment about this statement is "Who cares?"



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/06/2014 09:48AM by michaelc1945.

The oldest and largest women's organization in the world...

...that is run by men.

Short answer: no.

And my wife is sooo glad to have never been a member...

Ron Burr

And they always fail to mention the 10 year hiatus.

24 year hiatus.

so..... if we assume 6 Mill active members worldwide, and 50% female - and 50% of those of age to be in RS, that means about 1.5 mill members of RS

what other womens organizations are bigger than 1.5 million?

Only half of those 1.5 million are Americans, and about 1/3 of them are under 18. That means they have about 400k members in the US who actually participate.

NOW has 500k members, who are all adults and Americans. These are dues paying members, so you know they are active.

http://now.org/faq/how-many-members-does-now-currently-have/

The R.S. celebrated thier 172nd birthday this year. However, few members recognize that the R.S. was essentially disbanded shortly after it was started. Joseph shut it down after Emma used it as a forum to speak against polygamy. There was no R.S. between 1844 and 1868, so they really haven't reached 150 years yet.

Even when I was an active TBM member I found it weird that every year they would bring a Relief Society Birthday cake to celebrate another year of the Relief Soiety.

I don't know why but is always galling to me to hear that. It's not the oldest, I mean c'mon, the church didn't exist until the early 1800s. And largest? Pretty sure any if the other major religions are larger than the mormon church.

Just another way Mormons have of tooting their own horn. Illusions of grandeur.

The YWCA was founded in 1855, and has been in operation continuously since then, beating the RS in time (because of the RA hiatus).
Its membership is estimated at about 4 million women and girls.
And it was founded by and is run by *women.* Not men.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/06/2014 12:28PM by ificouldhietokolob.

The Quakers beat the Mormons on this one by about 100 years. So do the Moravians, by about 200 years. The Catholics may also have a contender. These groups had benevolent women's societies and circles in operation long before Joseph Smith was even born, and they are all still running today.

Ridiculous.

ETA: these groups reign as oldest: no idea on total numbers. But even if every lds girl is part of Mia Maids and every LDS woman is in RS (which I know is not true), even those numbers don't trump the Catholics, over time.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 10/06/2014 01:00PM by bookratt.

The United Methodist Women is another one:

http://www.unitedmethodistwomen.org/history

VxPx Wrote:
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> Is the Relief Society really the "oldest and
> largest women's organization in the world" as they
> keep bragging it is. And if it is, why is that
> significant?

I think they count Eve as the first member, and that virtually trumps the rest of the women's groups. :-)

Got to love Mormons. What braggarts they are. Everything is bigger and better. The church should be in Texas. We have the biggest women's organization. We are the fastest growing. We have the biggest cattle ranch in the nation.

The members love it. Hearing all this makes their big toe shoot up in their boot.

I agree with NormaRae. Two-thirds of the so-called members either don't know or don't care that they are members and it can't really be called a women's organization when all the power is held by men. Men have to approve activities and agree to the budget and often accompany the women so there is a priesthood holder on standby in case there is some sort of problem that needs magic oil and hocus pocus blessings. That' isn't a women's organization.

It's oldest and largest in kind fo the same way that Utah is the "most charitable" state.

In other words it might be technically true according to the definition they use, but there are now officially more 7th Day Adventist and Jehovah's Witnesses women in their "woman's organizations" than LDS.

But RS goes all the way back to Eve, like all church auxiliaries do. Duh. Therefore, oldest.

Girl Scouts (international) has over 10 million members in 145 countries. GSA (Girl Scouts of America) has 3.2 million members who are girls (many of whom are of an age to be described as 'young women'), and 890,000 adult women leaders and in other administrative posts. I'd venture to say it's bigger than the Mormons' Relief Society, but I'm a nevermo, so I'm willing to admit I could well be wrong. And for sure the Girl Scouts are not nearly as old.

The oddest and lamest women's organization, more like.

In Connell O'Donovan's history of homosexuality and the mormons (http://www.connellodonovan.com/abom.html) the second photo (after one of BY's sons in drag) is of the two Lesbian women who ran the Primary program, published "The Children's Friend" and founded the Primary Children's Hospital.

Here's the relevant paragraph:

"In 1883, 33 year old Louie Felt met 19 year-old May Anderson, and they also fell in love. This time, however, May did not marry Joseph Felt. In 1889 May moved in with Louie, and Joseph permanently moved out of the house Louie had built and bought on her own.[12] Thus began one of the most intense, stable, and productive love relationships in turn-of-the-century Mormonism. These two women lived together for almost 40 years, and together presided over three of Mormonism's most significant institutions: the General Primary Association (for Mormon children), the Children's Friend (a magazine for young Mormons), and founding the Primary Children's Hospital.[13] Louie and May were fairly open about the romantic and passionate aspects of their relationship, as reported in their biographies published in several early issues of the LDS Children's Friend. According to their recent biographer, Felt and Anderson's relationship was a "symbiotic partnership with each compensating for the weaknesses and complementing the strengths of the other". The 1919 Children's Friend biography more bluntly declared that "the friendship which had started when Sister Felt and [May Anderson] met...ripened into love. Those who watched their devotion to each other declare that there never were more ardent lovers than these two". The same biography also calls the beginning of their relationship a "time of love feasting", and makes it clear that the two women shared the same bed.[14] Twice in the Children's Friend, Anderson and Felt were referred to as "the David and Jonathan" of the Primary, which, the magazine explained, was a common appellation for the women. For centuries, the biblical characters David and Jonathan have been classic signifiers of male-male desire and homoeroticism, because in the Hebrew scriptures, it was written in 2 Samuel 1:26 that upon Jonathan's death in battle, David lamented, "very pleasant hast thou been unto me: thy love to me was wonderful, passing the love of women."[15] That these two women were described as "David and Jonathan" simultaneoulsy masculinizes them and firmly encodes their love for each other in a homoerotic context."

I am aware that after the Relief Society got rolling in Deseret, it was completely an institution run by its members; they did everything and did not ask permission, apparently preferring to do what they thought necessary and apologizing later, if need be.

Here's how things ended for the sisters running the organization, according to Wikipedia:

"The church-wide implementation of Priesthood Correlation in the 1960s "radically transformed" the Relief Society. These changes assisted in preparing the Relief Society for an era of a worldwide church. Correlated lessons and materials were easier to translate and applicable to a broader audience. A side-effect of these changes was that the Relief Society lost some of the autonomy that it once enjoyed. The Relief Society Magazine's last edition was December 1970, after which it and several other church magazines were replaced with the Ensign."

I feel quite certain that this entry was energetically 'massaged' so as to put the best light possible on the fact that the sisters were kicked out of their control of the organization.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Relief_Society

A compound phrase; those are the kind of misleading and/or ambiguous phrases that spin-masters love to confuse and/or mislead others with

just sayin'

The complaints I heard from my mother and her friends when I was a teen growing up in the sixties were about having to give up the wheat, granaries, and funds owned and controlled by the Relief Society.

There was also much unhappiness when the ward Relief Societies were told to discontinue their fundraising Bazaars.

"Bow your head and say 'yes'" was the gist of the male leaders's response as they correlated/consolidated their control during that era.

Women's organization ?

Leadership-chosen by men

Budget-approved by men

Lessons-approved by men

Meetings-presided over by men

Local meetings-always a p-hood man in the building

Every six months, all women vote to sustain their male overlords

So, the women don't choose their leaders, don't control their money, don't have final approval on lessons and other materials, and the organization exists under the umbrella of a male-run church with zero women in leadership.

Nice "women's organization" ya got there.....

danboyle Wrote:
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> Women's organization ?
>
> Leadership-chosen by men
>
> Budget-approved by men
>
> Lessons-approved by men
>
> Meetings-presided over by men
>
> Local meetings-always a p-hood man in the
> building
>
> Every six months, all women vote to sustain their
> male overlords
>
> So, the women don't choose their leaders, don't
> control their money, don't have final approval on
> lessons and other materials, and the organization
> exists under the umbrella of a male-run church
> with zero women in leadership.
>
> Nice "women's organization" ya got there.....

Not to mention that they teach/learn from handbooks
that are "teachings from the past prophets" which are...
...MEN!

It isn't a feminist organization - nor does it empower women as much as it does the male priesthood holders.

Is it a true "women's organization" when who it really serves are its masters ie, the men who preside over it?

Who controls the Relief Society tells me more about it being antithetical to a true women's society than it does empowering women.

As for service it performs within communities, RS hardly makes a splash of any kind charity wise in local communities nation wide or worldwide.

Methodists as other Protestant ministries do more charitable works combined than any the LDS provides on an outreach basis.

Other women's organizations that empower women include Daughters of the American Revolution (DAR,) and the YWCA. DAR's been a women's organization since 1890. YWCA since 1855. "The YWCA represents more than one million women, girls and their families. Eliminating Racism and Empowering Women."

https://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20070503100834AAMeVY2

I think these comments are funny and I don't take any offense at them at all. I received a weekly relief society newsletter, and they are planning to meet this week for a project that involves buying new underwear,heavy-duty plastic baggies and sending these off to "girls who have to miss school one week out of the month". The relief society is serving cake for the ladies to eat while they put these packets together. Sounds a little different to me, but I guess that's being charitable. No word of where these packets are being sent to, though.

They look OLD and LARGE. Gross

I read in Rough Stone Rolling that the Idea for Relief Society came from observing Women's Benevolent Societies that were popular in the land. No way is Relief Society the oldest women's organization. Plus women's sewing circles were common.

How is it even deserving of the designation organization? Does it have a separate membership record...does it stand alone as an organization entity? If you are a female adult member of the LDS Church you are expected to go to RS meetings. It is no more a stand alone organization than Sunday School or Primary.

Exactly. Women aren't allowed to pick their own leaders, instead they're appointed by men. They can't come up with their own budget or plan anything without the approval of men. They "sustain" not only their male-appointed leaders, but the rest of the men who really control everything, and the "lessons" were written by men, featuring things men said.