It's well known that the "tokens" in the LDS temple endowment
were "borrowed" from Freemasonry. But where did they come from
in the first place?

Freemasonry comes from the medieval guild system.

Joseph Smith introduced the handshakes (borrowed and adapted
from Masonry) a few weeks after he, himself became a Master
Mason. Along with the handshakes were their name, sign and
penalty, also borrowed from Masonry.

They all made sense in terms of the medieval guild system. Back
then there was no way to authenticate someone's credentials.
You couldn't e-mail some organization to check and written
documents could be forged or stolen.

So the guilds had secret signs that the members learned at each
level. Let's say you are a Mason and show up to help build a
cathedral or a castle. How do they know you are a member of the
Mason's guild? How do they know what level of proficiency you
have attained? If you are not competent the building you work
on may collapse.

Let's say you claim to be a member of the Mason's Guild who has
reached the level of "Fellow Craft Mason." Then the "project
engineer" takes you into a private room and you give the secret
handshakes, signs, names and penalties associated with the rank
of Fellow Craft Mason. This proves you are the real deal.

Of course in such a system secrecy is of paramount importance.
That is why there were penalties associated with each token and
sign. That is why you would, as part of Guild ritual,
symbolically slit your throat or symbolically disembowel
yourself while promising never to reveal these things under
penalty of "having my throat cut from ear to ear and my tongue
torn out by the roots." This last phrase was borrowed verbatim
from Masonry into the Endowment. In the 1920s is was changed to
"suffer my life to be taken." In 1990 it was eliminated
altogether in the Endowment.

In time the medieval Mason's guild morphed from a craft-guild
to a fraternal organization.

In the Medieval Guild System all this makes perfect sense. In a
religious/Christian context it makes no sense at all.

Oh, and by the way, even Masonic Historians have debunked the
claim (common in Joseph Smith's day) that Masonic ceremonies
dated back to Solomon's Temple.

I'd also add that there's no worship--There's no praise for God or Christ, no thanksgiving, and no blessing via benediction. Everything is shallow and cultish. Boner.

Exactly! It's all about worshipping the Church itself. You pledge everything you have "including your own lives if necessary" to the Church, not to God. It makes me sick knowing I used to put up with this crap.

another Significant Nail in the Mormon Coffin.

Ahhh...finally Mormon endowment stuff makes sense.

It's about work for the dead in their theology. That makes sense to those that believe in it.

I sure would like a conversation with my deceased husband now! hehe

yes, but the handshakes and penalties and secrecy make no sense
in a Christian religious setting.

"the handshakes and penalties and secrecy make no sense
in a Christian religious setting."

Spot on, Jesus himself declared that He had said nothing in secret so should we assume that Joe Smith knew better than the one he professed to follow?

Jesus also said "let the dead bury the dead," and yet mormons spend millions of hours focused on "serving" the dead rather than the living.

Church members pay 10% in tithing. The church invests it in real estate. Members attend the temple to save dead people. Why? Because it doesn't cost anything to help dead people! Yet, mormonism has convinced its members that this is all about charity, that they are making charitable contributions, and they are doing the Lord's work.

It's Mormonism's ultimate deception and scam. Money goes to real estate instead of the poor and needy, and mormons are okay with it because of all those happy dead people who can be mormons now.

When I get into the "are mormons Christian?" question, this is my first line of debate.

The genius of the system is that while it makes no sense and anyone who thinks about it realized it makes no sense, an active participant who makes that realization has two choices. He can conclude that it is his fault that it makes no sense to him because he lacks understanding or faith or, he can conclude that it makes no sense, but he must pretend that it does, because otherwise he will be excluded from the club.
Because the devotee has been sworn to secrecy, he cannot discover that others have come to the same conclusions.

I knew very little about Masonry until I watched a documentary about it on one of the cable channels. I had just finished reading the Ken Follett series that included Pillars of the Earth and while those books are fiction, the purpose of Masonry made sense to me in that setting. As I watched the documentary, I was shocked by the similarities to the temple ceremony. When I was endowed the penalties were still part of the ceremony.

I'm a costumer by trade and I understand the psychology of color. Different colors trigger different emotions. The documentary was filmed in torch light with the participants wearing black clothing with their Masonic robes. I remember thinking that by changing the colors in the temple, they had changed the emotion. After that, I started to notice all of the ways that emotional responses are triggered during the endowment by the use of light, sound and temperature. Those manipulations are most evident in the Salt Lake Temple live sessions where the participants move from room to room.

At the time, as a believing member, I credited TSCC with helping attendees reach a spiritual high by helping them use all of their senses during the process. In a live session, you literally climb from the dark, cold, dreary world, into the warmth and light of the Celestial Room. I now see that as a manipulation, but then I saw it as an aid.

Temple "worship" makes no sense, but it sure does make a lot of money. Ten percent of you gross income is a lot to pay to learn the secret handshake and be admitted into the club.

The bottom line when it comes to Mormon temple ceremonies is that the secracy and the penalties are a form of mind control. If there is a secret (doesn't matter how stupid the actual secret is - like a secret handshake), but that you've promised to never reveal it upon a threat of your own death, then the church has control over you and your life. Joseph Smith stole every thing he could from every source he could find, to make up the church beliefs. The masons and their ceremonies were just one more source of beliefs for Smith to steal from in his made-up religion.

As if every other Gottverdammt Mass/worship makes sense...
They all cut from the same fantasy.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/02/2014 10:42AM by quinlansolo.

Like the Emperors new clothes made no sense. People still went along with the Emperors new clothes and pretended he wasn't naked, while parading down the street.
They thought something was wrong with them because they couldn't see his 'new clothes'.

Until a child without guile said "But he doesn't have any clothes on!"
His parent backed him up and said "Listen to the innocent!"

But in the church your mouth is made dumb and you are left to go home confused as to why everyone else claims to have had a wonderful spiritual experience in the Temple.
You doubt yourself. You wonder what you did wrong that you didn't have a wonderful experience.


I always wondered why God needed hand shakes and passwords to recognize me. Wasn't he God????

During my questioning phase I asked someone why Christ would put sentinels between me and himself if he had already saved me in Gethsemane and on the cross. They told me that being saved by Christ was like getting the Admission to the Park Ticket. You're saved, but not exalted.The temple covenants were equivalent to a All Attractions All Day Pass. You were saved and exalted. Those who do not require covenants in this estate get a Fast Pass. Mormons love Disneyland.

Thank you Baura. This is why I love this place. That is juicy and I have been dying to have the dirt on the "restored Solomon" thing.

Thanks for the insight on the guild system. Yes, it did make sense in that setting. I also agree that there is not much worship in the temple. It seems like stuff you have to learn in order to become exalted but the emphasis is on "you."

Thank You, Baura.

The information you have just shared has helped me to better understand the reality of Mormon temple rituals.
I've already passed it on to others.

Rosicrucianism is a philosophical secret society said to have been founded in late medieval Germany by Christian Rosenkreuz. It holds a doctrine or theology "built on esoteric truths of the ancient past", which, "concealed from the average man, provide insight into nature, the physical universe and the spiritual realm."[1] Rosicrucianism is symbolized by the Rosy Cross.

Between 1607 and 1616, two anonymous manifestos were published, first in Germany and later throughout Europe.[2] These were the Fama Fraternitatis RC (The Fame of the Brotherhood of RC) and the Confessio Fraternitatis (The Confession of the Brotherhood of RC). The influence of these documents, presenting a "most laudable Order" of mystic-philosopher-doctors and promoting a "Universal Reformation of Mankind", gave rise to an enthusiasm called by its historian Dame Frances Yates the "Rosicrucian Enlightenment".[3]

Rosicrucianism was associated with Protestantism (Lutheranism in particular),[4] and the manifestos opposed Roman Catholicism and its preference for dogma over empiricism. They traced their philosophy and science to the Moors, asserting that it had been kept secret for 120 years until the intellectual climate might receive it.

Early seventeenth-century occult philosophers such as Michael Maier, Robert Fludd and Thomas Vaughan interested themselves in the Rosicrucian world view.[3]

According to historian David Stevenson it was also influential to Freemasonry as it was emerging in Scotland.[4]

In later centuries, many esoteric societies have claimed to derive their doctrines, in whole or in part, from the original Rosicrucians. Several modern societies have been formed for the study of Rosicrucianism and allied subjects.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rosicrucianism



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/02/2014 10:58AM by Shummy.

A normal temple is open to all people, all hours of the day, and night, where people can come (and go) and worship, and heal, relax and seek pleasure, as one might wish, and as nothing would be required, one could honor and be honored, as time allows; experience the joys and blessings (of Christ) or "temples", LDStruth, without a needed name, private number or purpose known by others; anyone could view baptisms or be baptized while living, through experimental art, inviting dance, living theater, relaxation & healing massage, soothing pools, water drops and sparkling springs and fire-middles (as opposed to firesides) with music and feasting; watch 'spiritual' weddings taking place, outside on the grounds and lawns and forests; you wouldn't have to buy anything, you wouldn't be persuaded into anything, and you wouldn't have to talk to anyone if you didn't want to, like real (HOE) heaven on earth.

Why does the BBC (big bad church) make such a big deal out of their temples? They are not really temples it all. There is certainly no more worship going on therein than in my living room, my mind, my usual company, or my God. Celebration is an action. Worship is a way. Freedom is socializing without lines or as sides. Separation is a way of keeping ignorance at bay, in the tides of the Mormons I. If it had nothing to be afraid of it would not be afraid of anything at all.

Mormonism in a nutshell: Worship Us VS. Worship WITH Us. See the problem? It is all about separation. "Mormonism Unites by Separating"(©M@t). It does (little to) nothing for you and expects you to do everything for it.

It builds its temples as "spiritual" hiding places and other objects of worship, magic and idolatry: hiding the money, the waste(ing) of time + (in human) resources, the illusion(s) that there might actually be something there. BUT, standing between You and God/ Anything Good, with both hands out stretched, one on your shoulder, (head or wallet), and the other on your nuts/ heart (ripping it out?), is LDSink. It is always getting at a member's resources, piles stock$, footage, games and plans while yanking them for more.


M@t



Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 10/03/2014 09:09AM by moremany.

moremany Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> A (true) temple is open to all people, all hours
> of the day, and night, where people can come and
> worship, and heal, and relax, and seek pleasure,
> as they wish, and as nothing would be required,
> one could honor and be honored, as time allows;
> experience the joys and blessings (of Christ)

Sounds like a Catholic cathedral.

After 9/11 many people went to church for spiritual solace.
Catholics had no problem because their churches are open every
day. Mormons, on the other hand, had to go to other churches.

baura Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> moremany Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > A (true) temple is open to all people, all
> hours
> > of the day, and night, where people can come
> and
> > worship, and heal, and relax, and seek
> pleasure,
> > as they wish, and as nothing would be required,
> > one could honor and be honored, as time allows;
> > experience the joys and blessings (of Christ)
>
> Sounds like a Catholic cathedral.
>
> After 9/11 many people went to church for
> spiritual solace.
> Catholics had no problem because their churches
> are open every
> day. Mormons, on the other hand, had to go to
> other churches.

Open vs. Closed - thanks for bringing up CCs and the difference baura. M churches & temples are rather useless, in the traditional sense of the word and way, of worship.

My first time through the temple, just before going on my mission, I wondered what purpose secret handshakes and passwords would actually serve. I was told they would have to be given to "sentinels" along the way as I went up to the celestial kingdom in the afterlife...but I wondered why an all-knowing "god" wouldn't already know I was a faithful priesthood holder, worthy to be there. And I wondered if mormon apostates, having been through the temple and learned the secret stuff, would be able to get right through even though they weren't worthy. It made no sense whatsoever.
But then again, I was still shocked at having been fondled by a old priesthood holder with bad breath as he "annointed" my genitals while I stood there shivering and naked, finding out that the "jesus wants me for a sunbeam" church I thought I'd grown up in was a nuthouse of secret nonsense, and having everybody around me in the celestial room tell me how wonderful the pile of idiocy I'd just been through was "wonderful," when all I wanted to do was run screaming from the building still wearing my floppy hat, robe, and funny green apron...
So what did I know? :)

ificouldhietokolob Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> finding out that the "jesus wants me for a sunbeam"
> church I thought I'd grown up in was a nuthouse of
> secret nonsense, . . .

Well put. I'm definitely stealing that line.

Yeah, the whole annointing thing bothered me too. It wasn't on my genitals, but in a place I don't like other people touching me.

Thanks for giving a concise explanation of the temple rituals and their origin. If only more people understood this. Also, I am an apostate and do know the "ceremony" by heart. I'm going to try and sneak into heaven!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/02/2014 06:05PM by rationalist01.

It all makes perfect sense in the masonry craft.
"OK, you are a master mason? Go to the cathedral, we need more masons on the vaulted ceiling."

"And you over there, you are a level one apprentice? OK, go help Joe build the shed in the back."

My family joined the church when I was 11 years old (1968) and I recall when my parents went to the Salt Lake temple for the first time.

My dad was a Mason and he was VERY disturbed by the similarities. Unfortunately, someone high up in the church happened to be available to talk to my Dad, can't recall who now, but big enough to impress my Dad that he would condescend to talk to just a regular guy.

He gave him the (false) story about it being patterned after the ceremonies in Solomon's temple, and finished by asking, "So wouldn't you be MORE surprised if it WASN'T the same?" Dad was appeased and we were TBM's for many years after.

So sad to think how close he came to discovering the truth, only to be deceived again.

I wonder how many times that man had to use that same line to bring somebody around? I can almost imagine him scratching a notch in the edge of his desk for each Mason he turned around.

It's a wonder they don't try to PREPARE people for that before their first visit.

Now that they have eliminated the penalties, I think it does make sense to them. They claim to have powerful experiences in their temples -- experiences, admittedly, that I never had. They really do believe Jesus is there in some way. I believe the temple is mainly a tool to extort 10% of their income, but individual Mormons seem to gain something from it.

The so called temple worship is "newspeak" in Orwellian terms. With the infatuation of temple related talk in TSCC meetings, it is merely a euphemism replacing the question, "have you paid your tithing". Asking if you are temple worthy is more palatable.

It's like any kids' secret handshakes for their secret club.