I was talking with a former high school classmate yesterday about another one of our classmates that recently died. The classmate I was talking with is an Evangelical Christian.

We were also talking about a home town couple who have a son who is gay and is a successful fashion designer in New York City. She was very impressed by how successful he has become. She also commented on how hard it would be to have a family member who is gay. Before I could respond she went on to say that she thought most gay people probably were not really gay because she knew three gay people who changed to straight and got married. She kept going on about how hard it would be to cope with a gay family member and she didn't know what she would do if it happened in her family. I replied, "You love them and don't disown or shun them". She sort of passed over that comment and just said, "Well, yes, but you cannot condone being gay! If you are a Christian you cannot just accept that someone is gay and be okay with it".

I guess I'm a coward because I said nothing. I don't know how to reason with someone so closed minded. I just couldn't admit to her I'm no longer any religion at all and do not agree because in her mind I would be a true agent of the Devil. I did, however, let her know I was no longer a Mormon. She took credit for that because she had put my name on a prayer roll of some kind so that I would see how far astray I was as a Mormon.

How do I tell this woman that she prayed me out of the pot into the fire? As an atheist I think she would see me as even worse off with God than a Mormon but I'm not really sure of that. I just don't want to go there with her.

I am from the midwest and I'm surprised by how many of my home town friends have similar opinions to this. Although they are a more diverse group, including Catholics, they seem to have really hard core beliefs of this nature. I know now, I could never go back to living in my home town.

Bi-sexual people can enjoy a same-sex partner, or multiple partners, and later on have fullfilling relationships with opposite sex partners. That's the response I would have given.

Great response. Bi-sexuality is not something to be scared of though many people out here in the Midwest are scared of it. I could want to have sex with both you and your wife!!! Heaven help us!

I would bring up "Well, there have been some high-profile gay-turned-straight people who made the news a while back. Many of these people are now back to being gay, saying that their 'straight' persona had been a lie they put up to social pressures. Since we have example after example of someone going 'straight,' and then years later acknowledging that their supposed 'straight' time had been inauthentic, I think I've a right to be a bit skeptical of more recent stories that look like maybe their only partway through that story arc.
"Consider Exodus International if you want some solid examples and honest discussion on the topic. They tried to be an ex-gay ministry. Eventually they apologized and shut down because the most experienced leadership there concluded that their organization had never really delivered what it had promised."

Your mileage may vary.

I hate quoting the Bible, but this time I just have to say, "Pearls before swine."

Of course you couldn't reason with her. A crowbar couldn't open that mind . . .or heart.

"All gays can turn straight because I know of one who did."

Hmmmmm

How about

"All people can bench press 1,100 lbs. because I know of one
who did."

or

"All people can live happy, successful lives without religion
because I know of one who did."

Would your friend agree with the logic of these statements?

Thanks for these responses. You are helping a lot.

they have changed to straight. I'm sure there are those out there who actually do not cheat on their wives and stay married all their lives. I wonder how much pain they are in. I worked with a man who nobody would have believed cheated on his wife with other men, but he said enough that I knew that he had. It is odd that I found myself working with this man as I was working through my issues with my gay boyfriend, etc., and marrying him. This man was a tortured soul. He and I grew to be great friends.

My ex's gay friends from high school most have divorced. There are two who are still married. Both have oodles of children. Both cheat, one extensively. He even cheated the night before his temple marriage.

And this woman says there are no gays in her family. More than likely there are. She just doesn't know it YET. The thing that changed EVERYTHING for me is to love someone gay. How dare I ask him to live an inauthentic life?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/30/2014 01:26PM by cl2.

Sounds like a completely closeminded person. Don't feel bad for not trying to reason with her, it likely wouldn't have made a difference. And for the record, as a gay person I can assure you that there are no gays turning straight. Every adult gay person in the universe knows this with certainty. Do you really think there would be any gay christians and mormons left if they could choose it away? The fact of millions of unhappy gays praying and doing all kinds of things to turn straight unsuccesfully is a sad testimony of the fact that there is no choice.

Although I agree that sexual orientation is largely fixed at a very early age, if I'm going to express skepticism about someone else's knowledge-claim, rhetorically I feel a need to model some kind of even-handed skepticsm. "You think they turned straight? Here are reasons to doubt that..." is more conversation-promoting, and hopefully more thought-provoking than direct contradiction with an equally emphatic claim to knowledge to the contrary.

Trying to reason with the absolutely closeminded can be an exercise in honing one's own arguments as well as an exercise in hope. If one can do it for one's own sake, "At least I spoke up," then there may be a value to the attempt.

The woman sounds caustic.

Taking credit for something you CHOSE because she prayed to her God about it a couple times?

No point in reasoning with such a self centered girl like that on any topic, best to just drop contact with her.

The problem here is that she didn't even do the praying herself. She put my name on a prayer roll at her church. If she had actually gotten down on her knees and prayed for me herself I might have actually felt she cared for me a little. But taking credit for putting my name on the prayer roll is a bit egotistical in my mind not to mention discrediting me for having the brains to figure things out for myself. Her life is just too full of church activities and good deeds to be bothered with actually helping out a friend.

Yeah, I've had this kind of conversation with my MIL too. There is someone who lives in her hometown who is gay. I've known he was gay since I was 16 years old. Not to stereotype, because not all gay people are like this, but he is what I would call a flaming queen. He is very obvious in his mannerisms.

He has also been married the entire time I've known him. He decided to leave his wife and come out. He then went to a church thing and decided that he is no longer gay and is back with his wife. My MIL thinks this is proof that gays can be cured. I think he's still gay - whether he is living with his wife or not. I also think it shouldn't matter if he is. But I can't convince her any differently. She says that being gay is a sin, just like using pornography (which is a whole other subject we could argue too.)

I tried gently to talk to her about it. But we have to just agree to disagree on this one because she won't budge. She got so mad at me because I mentioned that I supported gay marriage on Facebook that she blocked me. (Not just unfriended, actually blocked me.) But I don't understand the mindset that she can't accept her friend just the way he is. Thank goodness she has the sense to keep her mouth shut when my gay friends come around.

And really, if coping with a gay child is the worst thing that happens to a parent, do they really have it so bad? I'd much rather cope with that than a child who turns out to kill someone or be a pedophile. Ugh. It sounds like there was nothing you could have done to reason with this woman.

Tell her to prove her point, she has to change to be gay for a week.

When she can't do it, simply say, "There you go."