Perma-singles are those Members of the Church who are single and will remain so to the end of their lives.

Why so many?

Here is the reason:

1) Most of the female perma-singles are either too fat or too old or too ugly for any man to ever want sexually.

2) There are many women in the Church who have degrees and make good money, and they are either attractive or plain janes. They want a man who is their equal or better, which also means one who has equal education or at least makes as much money as they do. If they can't find such a man, and they can't, they remain single.

3) Men who remain single after the age of 35, who are never married, leave the Church. Many don't bother to resign. They just stop showing up. With 60% of LDS women marrying non-members, this leaves a HUGE shortage of attractive women past the age of 25.

4) Some gay men really enjoy the Church, and attend. They usually have sex in secret. Why they remain active, I don't know. I served in San Francisco on my mission, and there were lots of single men with effeminate behaviors in the Ward I served in in the city. I never asked, and they never said, but it was beyond obvious they were gay. Why they continued to go, not sure. Cultural thing? Anyway, they were there in large numbers.

Why are there so many perma-singles?

*Too many attractive Mormon women marry Gentile men. this is common outside of Utah and Mormon areas like Mesa. Most Mormon women marry Gentile men.

*Fat Mormon women usually can't find a husband. Some Mormon women are thin when they get married, but get fat later. I'm talking about the Mormon women who are fat when they are 18 years old. They go on missions. They come home and finish college, and enter the work force. Never lose weight. Never appearing to men. A few of these women will marry black men on probation who need a woman so they have a place to sleep and take a shower. But most of these women never marry.

*Because 60% of Mormon women marry Gentile men, this creates a shortage of attractive women in the Church over the age of 23. If you're an LDS man, and you haven't married by 30, you're never going to get married. Most of these men hold on until about 35, then they leave permanently. If they remain in the Church, they have a choice:
a) marry a fat/ugly woman or...
b) get rich and marry an attractive woman or...
c) don't get rich and remain single forever.

That's about it.

I have always been attractive, thin and rich enough. I'm permanently single, for a few reasons.

#1. I am a very happy person. Studies show that a single woman is the happiest human in America. Married men come in second, Married women a weak third, and single men dead last. Like the Mormon cult, marriage is for men, invented by men.

#2. I was only supposed to marry a Mormon in the temple. I married to two Mormon men. The first one beat me, and the second one cheated on me and abandoned me and our children. So, been-there-done-that. No all men are jerks, but it just takes two of them to ruin you forever.

#3. I limit my friends to upbeat, genuine, honest, kind human beings. I don't care what they look like, or how much money they have. They can be at any age stage in life (infant to hospice-aged, challenged to gifted, healthy or not, beautiful or not)

#4. In the singles, I have run across too many people with the attitude expressed above, by NomomoForevermo.

Open your eyes, open your heart, and look at all the beautiful, wonderful people all around you! Your ideas are wrong. Get a better attitude, and stop depressing yourself.

Dear Beaten Up and Cheated On,

I met many many Mormon women like yourself, since I attended young adult and singles wards and activities for 30 years. Saw attractive thin Mormon women such as yourself marry a womanizer/abuser, get divorced, then chase another womanizer/abuser, and got the same result. The 'problem' is that these women are attracted to such men, and always will be. Women like that wouldn't give me the time of day. They wouldn't piss on me if I was on fire. Yet, I was honest, moral, respectful, a virgin, and BROKE. They didn't want me. They wanted the womanizers/users/abusers. Every single time. Unfortunately, honey, you only PROVE my thesis. My ideas are not "all wrong". They are FACTS. I wish that wasn't so, but it is. Women like you either mate with selfish womanizers/abusers, or not at all. You make my point.

Nomomo4evermo Wrote:
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> Yet, I was honest, moral, respectful, a virgin, and BROKE.

If you analyzed your situation, and found that to be the problem, how did you rectify that? Even I figured out how to earn a decent living, and it's not like I was the brightest bulb in that department.

I agree with all your points,I would however include the emphasis on worthiness made by the church.It can eventually drive young singles who have gone beyond "heavy petting" to experience guilt-depression etc.that can lead to inactivity.

My nutrition professor is a single mormon, and i dont really know her story, but i do know that she is very intelligent, very intuitive, and an excellent professor. And that could be whats keeping her single. But if i was a sensible middle aged male (shes gotta be like 26-30. Very young looking though) i would find her to be a great catch! Unfortunately she probably has temple standards, and thats why shes still single : p

There are so many permasingles because Mormonism severely limits
your chances. You are to ONLY choose from faithful Mormons.
That eliminates over 99% of possible mates.

You are also limited in your personality. You have to be a
squeeky-clean "spirichal" person with a bland personality.

Wow -if people who aren't married in the church get subjected to the level of "know it all" judgement and bitterness from single peers like the author of this thread (who clearly is a desirable physical specimen with no issues)....well then...their religious devotion must be strong.

I have a 40 year old daughter who is a professional in the morridor. she'd dearly love to get married and was in long term relationship, both of them talking marriage and kids, that suddenly ended when the twerp said he wanted to date other women. You know the drill. It was devastating but she soldiered on . there are not many good men out there for brilliant women looking for someone smart and committed.

I think the problem with people not getting married past age 30 or so years old has to do with sex. One of the primary purposes of sex is to create a bond between a man and a woman. When the sex is too greatly impeded, so are the relationships. The damage was done to the person long before age 30. The church kills everyone's sex lives. If you are mormon and have a sex life, it's because your sex life survived the church teachings. I left the church at age 32, found a non-member woman who didn't have all of the sex-negative brainwashing, and then she and I together decided together what our sex life would be like, without inputs from the church. In addition, many people of both sexes become fat and unattractive after they've been brainwashed with Mormon teachings and simply give up on the hope of having sex. So the key is to leave the church, resign from it. Find someone who you are attracted to and who doesn't have messed up values about sex and who is a good person. There is no better way to see if you are sexually compatable than to have sex with that person. Just be responsible to take precautions to avoid pregnancy and diseases.

In the church, they don't teach you how to ask for sex and intemacy. You have to learn how to ask for what you want and to talk without shame about it. After you can do that, you'll find what you're looking for. Don't think you're unusual if what you want doesn't fit in to church paradigms. No matter how odd you think you are, there is a match out there for you, several of them actually. You just have to be brave enough and strong enough to find them, connect with them, and to be for them what they're looking for. Once you realize you're going to get what you want, it's not so hard to lose weight and to take action. You can do that at any age but it takes more work the older you get.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/30/2014 07:28AM by azsteve.

In YSA, especially when you get past around 25, there's far more women than men (probably due to the fact that men are more likely to leave the church by that point).

A lot of the women are looking for a worthy TBM priesthood holder. Whilst there are a few men still single past 35 in the church, they're usually not marriage material (which is why they're still single at that point)..

Why don't they wed? I suspect it's because of sexist, misogynist views like the ones the OP so aptly expressed:

"Fat Mormon women usually can't find a husband."

"Most of the female perma-singles are either too fat or too old or too ugly for any man to ever want sexually."

"...[men] have a choice:
a) marry a fat/ugly woman or...
b) get rich and marry an attractive woman or...
c) don't get rich and remain single forever."

The fat women's options, according to the OP, are to stay single and celibate forever or "marry black men on probation who need a woman so they have a place to sleep and take a shower."

So now we're talking RACIST, sexist, misogynist crap.

For the OP, marriage is all about finding a young, hot, THIN woman to f*ck (or one who makes a hella lotta $$). The woman, we must presume, has to stay young, hot, and thin forever to keep his attention (even when he doesn't stay young, hot, and rich forever).

What woman, Mormon or non, would want to marry somebody who believed all this? If the OP represents the typical Mormon man (and I sincerely hope he doesn't), it's no wonder women marry "Gentiles" or stay single.

You wrote: "So now we're talking RACIST, sexist, misogynist crap." I was surprised to see 10 replies to OP before this was mentioned.

I agree with you.

I have a 27 1/2 year old daughter that is a Civil Engineer. She is gorgeous and brilliant. She doesn't live in Utah. She's not worried about getting married. She's taking her last test for her PE, and she's extremely happy. I'm not worried about her getting married and neither is she. I have been to 5 weddings this last year and all of the grooms/brides were in their 30's. It will happen when it happens. She's not active in the church either.

Abso-pickin'-lutely. His theories on why he's single are about as accurate as Mormon doctrine.

The window in so much shorter inside the Church. As soon as young men return from their missions they're expected to find a wife and most usually do before 22 or 23 years old (even earlier now that the missionary age has been lowered). Since womem are expected to marry someone at their same age or older, they feel eternally single if they're 25, because all of her friends will be already married. At 30, people at Church will be joking about your singleness.

I have a friend who had plenty of offers. However,

1) Men kept saying that they wanted to take care of her, while she was looking for an equal partner. She wanted to be the Vice President of a company - not be taken care of.

2) Her mother and older sister kept telling her that once she got married, some man was going to straighten her out, which was not exactly an incentive to want to marry. She didn't want to be straightened out either. She just wanted an equal partner.

Actually, she keeps saying that she wants a Captain Moroni, which is funny, now that I realize the guy was totally fictional. Talking about chasing an ideal which doesn't exist.

For myself, it's complicated. Now that I'm middle-aged I may be fat and ugly, but in my younger years I was often called a fox, which was a popular term at the time.

But with Aspergers, it gets complicated socially. I don't think I ever gave the guys a chance to get anywhere near me, even if they had wanted me. Although I don't know of anyone who did.

My non-Mormon mother got frustrated though, because she said I was severely limiting myself in refusing to date anyone outside of Mormonism. She thought that was the problem.

Edit: I was just thinking. I do know a really beautiful young woman who seems to be having trouble finding a husband. In her case, I do think it's the lack of available Mormon men, where she is limiting herself not seeking any men outside of the Church.

In my area, there are few Mormons. It's very different when you live far from Utah. It can be extremely difficult to find a Mormon mate, if that's what you're insisting upon. Usually a mate is found 100 miles away, like her sister who just got married.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/30/2014 08:36AM by Greyfort.

One small cuss ahead.

I was just ignoring the crap and simply answered the question, but it was certainly noted. I figured they were looking for a reaction, so I wasn't going to give it to them, unless someone else mentioned it.

Oh, and icedtea, you're right. Who would want a person with such an attitude anyway? The Mormon male arrogance is often why the women don't want to marry them and why some of them do marry outside of the Church instead.

Some Mormon men can be arrogant, pompous asses. I've certainly met my share of them.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/30/2014 08:59AM by Greyfort.

My observances when I was a young, hot, TBM. I was enlightened by a few reasons why some available men did not want to date me.

1-I was a convert and not "born in the covenant". I did not have big LDS family to blend with. One young man I was dating was discouraged from dating me for this reason.

2-I wanted an education and hold off on the babies. My first goal in life was not to get knocked up.

3-I thought I mattered too. Getting married was in my plans, but worshipping my husband was not.

Sadly, I saw many well-education, beautiful young women get married to pretty homely, but "worthy" men. (Did the mission, service until it was painful, etc.) Those men got trophy wives.
I was approached by many poor matches for me that thought their mission trip was a free pass to my heart.

I think you are off base that women are perma single because of their weight, education or age. Some are perfectly fine being single. The reality is...what they do not have (Marriage with the worthy PH holder) is not any happier than their single status.

RMM

is tall, thin, and blonde. She was not active mormon from age 9 to age 20. She is attracted to nonmormon guys. One of her biggest drawbacks is that she sees the lives her married friends now have and don't want the same life. She wants something better than what she is seeing.

My good friend has 2 daughters, 1 who is my daughter's age and is expecting her second child. Both her daughters are looking at getting divorced. One just separated from her husband 2 months ago. As my friend says, they married duds, men who expected them to be the perfect little mormon wife who should be happy while their husband went about their life doing anything he wanted and they were supposed to support him in all his endeavors including quitting his job every other year and moving the family from state to state. They are both disillusioned by the forever fairytale marriage they were taught about in YW.

I find it very interesting that my daughter and her daughter, both the same age, find themselves in these situations.

Is this Paul the apostle or whoever back?

As for me, I could have married nonmos many times. I married my gay ex because I was counseled to, though I did love him. I had at least 2 other guys who wanted me to not marry, 2 mormons, 1 a nonmormon. I tend to forget about these guys. I had a date with one of them the day my husband asked me to marry him. Following leaders' counsel doesn't necessarily bring happiness. I am back with the nonmormon guy I wanted to marry at age 20 and have been for 10 years.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/30/2014 10:09AM by cl2.

Lived in the mission field and married with young children most of the time. I didn't have time to worry about permasingles. Left after thirty years of church lies and BS. I think most unmarried LDS are limiting their matrimonial prospects by not searching further afield. They need to get out more into the outside world. Who knows they might get someone to convert for a little sex. You never know what moves the spirit.

Because of people like the OP.

If you haven't noticed, there are a lot of very nice looking, professional, smart young mormon women in their late 20s and above. I think this has become a problem for the church. And I think it's one of the reasons for lowering the mission age for girls--to interrupt their education or career-seeking before they get in too deep.

These 30-ish never-married women get to where they have to choose between Mormon losers and non-mormon men who have it together. They know the clock is ticking and a lot of them are no longer content with the "you can get married and have children in the hereafter" line. They know they can handle career and family and want both. And many many 30-ish professional guys (non-mormon) are just beginning to think about marriage and those are the kinds of girls they want.

The OP reminds me of the troll, Paul the Apostle, who came on here with his misogynistic rants about hot women being gold diggers and leftover fat women, neither of who wanted to end up with a jerk like him!

My experience has been the opposite of the OP's rant. I have a large, extended Mormon family that I would consider a good cross section of Mormon society. I don't see perma singles. It seems to me that everyone was, and are still getting married way too young, and are now spitting out a few kids. A few of the much older cousins are now getting divorced.

I do have two older, active LDS female cousins that are smart, beautiful, single professionals, but they date so I assume they are open to getting married. Everyone else was married, or is currently in the process of getting married in their early to mid twenties. Not one church active female cousin married a non mormon. Nothing near the 60% that the OP falsely stated.

Several 18 and 19 year old female cousins just got married this past year, and a few male cousins as well that did wait until their late twenties. Even the cousins that have left the church are getting married now, most are in their mid to late twenties and early thirties.

ETA: The OP obviously believes there are only two types of women; hot and fat. I think that certainly is telling of his personality and intelligence.... or rather lack thereof.



Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 09/30/2014 12:11PM by Cool Whip.

Perhaps it is the Mormon outlook, promising "worthy" men a thin goddess that is preventing the Mormon men from getting to know the women that look less than perfect.

Mormonism does kind of mess up your dating with all the pre-conceived notions and restrictions. The dating pool outside of Utah hurts a lot also.

Also after a certain age, many people actually get pickier after they see the marriages fall apart of many of their LDS friends that got married too early and for the wrong reasons.

mormonthinker Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Also after a certain age, many people actually get
> pickier after they see the marriages fall apart of
> many of their LDS friends that got married too
> early and for the wrong reasons.

Oh, that is so true. You look at the failed marriages of your friends and think, "No way."

When I was still in the church, Miss Texas USA joined the church and was in our ward. She got looked over by all and she was a very sweet. I'm sure she was more experienced than most, if you know what I mean.(Boy that's a judgemental statement.) She worked with the YW and steered my daughter away from modeling telling her it was a dirty business. Her options to finding a husband in our neck of the woods were slim and so she moved to Utah where she met and married some wealthy LDS business owner. All our rich guys were already taken.

I was proposed to continually as a single Mormon woman. The problem for me was they always proposed after THE FIRST DATE! I'm afraid one date is not enough for me to know a man well enough to marry. When I turned them down they never asked me out again. One of these guys was engaged to another woman ONE WEEK after I turned him down. I have to say that being an attractive single woman did not make marriage to any of these guys (one was really, really wealthy) the least bit attractive to me.

I'm still not married and yet I'm quite happy. Dating is great. Having lots of friends is great. Marriage to a desperate, horny Mormon man doesn't sound great at all.

P.S. I'm an ex-Mormon now and could more than likely take on a permanent partner sans marriage rather than get married. But who knows? George Clooney changed his mind on that subject : )

I was mormon and single in my early 20's. The lack of marriageable mormon men was a problem.

There were a couple of nice looking guys, who still lived in their parents basements, drove a motorcycle, and had no job skills.

There were several who seemed to be somewhat mentally handicapped. They had been commanded to get a wife, and by damn that's what they set out to do! They kept getting called into the bishops office to be told to stop stalking the women. They were weird and creepy.

There were a few that were obese, broke, and had nothing whatsoever to offer in a relationship. The ones I knew lived like slobs and hand minimum wage jobs. For some reason they thought they were Gods gift to women everywhere. Not so much.

I did marry an RM. He often wouldn't get out of bed and go to work. He was having sex with a 14 year old hooker, and was quickly developing a drug problem. I was married to him for 2 years before I kicked him to the curb.

After all that, I never dated a mormon guy again. I was done with trying to put lipstick on a pig.

Does it even matter that over all there are more single adults than married adults? Mormonism is super strange and cultish under a microscope. However from 10,000 feet it is almost indistinguishable from most other religions.

Are you fucking serious? Your 'reasons' are misogynistic, racist, classist, AND insulting to anyone who doesn't have a narrow range of body types. News flash: Larger people can be attractive, white women who marry black men aren't marrying "down," all black men aren't in prison (?!?!), good sex doesn't come from being thin, older women/people fall in love and form relationships all the time, and all gay men aren't effeminate. Also, lesbians exist too. Jesus Christ. Your list basically reads like a primer on why YOU'RE single.

Wow - that number 1 is extremely offensive to women, treating them like they are some animal to be judged on age, weight or appearance. Maybe that's what you tell yourself to justify why women don't want you but men with more integrity wouldn't feel that way. At least you are honest about never being LDS though. Usually it's LDS men that get on, pretending to be ex-Mormons, and say stuff like that to make people who leave the church look like shallow monsters.